Conservation or Doctoring?

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by from West of the Pec » Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:08:32



COIN WORLD has been running articles about "conservation" of paper money.  

Does anyone here accept that a banknote could be so rare that even with scotch
tape on it, it is collectible?  I mean with coins, we accept, for instance,
that early US Type was often cleaned in times gone by -- even 50 years ago --
and old cleaning and retoning does not necessarily ruin a coin, as for instance
the 1804 Dollars that have miraculously improved their grades with age.

Michele Orzano once told me that almost anything that happens on a printing
press can be imitated with an eraser.  It was a quip, but it was well made to
alert me -- who knew and really knows nothing about paper money -- to be aware
of what I was looking at.

Is a dealer who writes the price of a banknote on the note in pencil an
ignoramus?

----------------------------
Tradurre e tradire.
---------------------------

 
 
 

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by JSTONE93 » Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:28:27


Quote:
>Does anyone here accept that a banknote could be so rare that even with
>scotch
>tape on it, it is collectible?

Yes, in particular National Bank Notes in
which a note could be in wretched
condition and taped together but still
bring a decent price at auction.  National
Banknote collectors (and some collectors
of obsolete notes) are willing to pay
very good prices for notes in bad shape
due to their rarity.  "Location" collecting
(usually state or town) is big with
national and obsolete collectors.  The
terrible condition note might be the
only one of its kind in existance.  

Quote:

>Is a dealer who writes the price of a banknote on the note in pencil an
>ignoramus?

In my opinion yes.  It is better to put the note in a plastic holder with a
sticker
on it and write the price on the sticker.  

 
 
 

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by from West of the Pec » Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:35:05


Quote:

>National Bank Notes in
>which a note could be in wretched
>condition and taped together but still
>bring a decent price at auction.

Well, myself, I guess I would rather have both piece in a plastic holder than
to have them taped together.

There are lots of way to "mend" a note.  I am sure that there are invisible
archive tapes that might be used.  But is this acceptable?  Or is it just
another kind of "scotch tape"?

Is washing a note as bad as clearning a coin?

How about starch?  Do you spray starch your paper and iron the wrinkles out
with a steam iron?

What is and is not allowed, permitted, encouraged, tolerated?

----------------------------
Tradurre e tradire.
---------------------------

 
 
 

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by Ji » Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:09:09



Quote:
>There are lots of way to "mend" a note.  I am sure that there are invisible

archive tapes that might be used.  But is this acceptable?  Or is it just
another kind of "scotch tape"?<

There are archival tapes used, but none are invisible and are allowed or
encouraged to keep a note intact. Cellophane tape is of course the worst thing
you could ever apply, but that faux pas, much like Brasso on a Morgan, is
unfortunately usually done so at the hands of a non-collector. Ditto the
sacrilage of starching and pressing notes or "any" kind of cleaning. Does it
occur? Of course, especially with high end US large notes (those of the period
of 1862 through 1928).

Unlike a coin, a note can be extremely fragile for oh so many reasons. On many
19th century obsoletes, the paper stock used was the sheerest onion skin bond
you can imagine, instead of a heavier stock. Even with heavier stock notes, the
note can be selectively worn or more often torn, at certain points, not others,
so that means the thicker portions must become bridges for the thinner ones
because salvation of the whole becomes paramount.

Some notes are just fragile to the touch, almost to the point of being brittle
and you'll never know why.

John Stone touched on the basic principle of most PM collectors and that is, we
have to take what we can get, because often times, there is nothing else better
coming along around the corner. It's not at all uncommon for collectors to have
SENC (Surviving Examples Never Confirmed) notes in their collections and NOT be
Rockefellers or Gettys. That is just one reason why this hobby can be so
compelling and fascinating. How many coin collectors you know, can make the
same claim?

Sub divisions of this rarity status may include whether or not a note was
issued, i.e., signed or was simply a remainder or an unsigned, though obviously
existing example. I can't tell you how many times the difference in price paid
by me, between issued and unissued, could be hundreds of dollars and on a
higher order, thousands in certain cases.

Authentication of signature, provenance or even issue becomes a problem
sometimes and "we" do not have the luxury of an ANA or other arbitration. We
only have other collectors. Fortunately though, many bogos of the 18th and 19th
century, can be spotted a mile away. Some are tough.

I'm rambling.....Time to snore.

          Always here for my fellow syngraphist or oenophile.
--=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=--

 
 
 

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by note.bo » Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:31:19


A cleaned coin will tone again in one or two hundred years but a washed
note is forever.

The glow of a washed note under UV light will *never* go away.   Billy


Quote:


> >National Bank Notes in
> >which a note could be in wretched
> >condition and taped together but still
> >bring a decent price at auction.

> Well, myself, I guess I would rather have both piece in a plastic holder than
> to have them taped together.

> There are lots of way to "mend" a note.  I am sure that there are invisible
> archive tapes that might be used.  But is this acceptable?  Or is it just
> another kind of "scotch tape"?

> Is washing a note as bad as clearning a coin?

> How about starch?  Do you spray starch your paper and iron the wrinkles out
> with a steam iron?

> What is and is not allowed, permitted, encouraged, tolerated?

> ----------------------------
> Tradurre e tradire.
> ---------------------------

 
 
 

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by PURDUEN » Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:05:13


Quote:
>>Is a dealer who writes the price of a banknote on the note in pencil an
>>ignoramus?

This was a practice of one dealer in particular,*** Hoober, who was one of
the pioneer dealers in obsoletes. The price was always done in very light
pencil on the back and was never any problem to lightly erase away with no harm
done to the note.

It is interesting to run across notes with the original pencil notations still
in place after all these years.  Prices have come a LOOOOONG way since the
1960s!

PURDUENUT

"Ever Grateful, Ever True..."

 
 
 

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by from West of the Pec » Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:29:08


Quote:

>This was a practice of one dealer in particular,*** Hoober, who was one of
>the pioneer dealers in obsoletes.

Charming, of course, so long ago.  The notes I saw were not obsoletes, but
modern world.  And were not so charming in this day and age to my eye, but I
wanted to see how the group felt before I passed a final judgment.

Interesting story.  Dick Hoober... I'll have to look him up in the indexes and
citations.

----------------------------
Tradurre e tradire.
---------------------------

 
 
 

Conservation or Doctoring?

Post by Fred A. Murph » Thu, 24 Oct 2002 05:18:21



Quote:
> Well, myself, I guess I would rather have both piece in a plastic holder
> than to have them taped together.

All well and good, unless someone puut them together with tape years ago,
and now you have to contend with the tape and the residue and the tear all
three.

Quote:
> There are lots of way to "mend" a note.  I am sure that there are
> invisible
> archive tapes that might be used.  But is this acceptable?  Or is it just
> another kind of "scotch tape"?

There are aicd free archival tapes and no-stick tapes, and I wouldn't use
either to repair paper omney.

Quote:
> Is washing a note as bad as clearning a coin?

Yes, and for the same reasons.

Quote:
> How about starch?  Do you spray starch your paper and iron the wrinkles
> out with a steam iron?

Gee, I dunno, Mike, if you had an Old Master, would you steam clean it?

Quote:
> What is and is not allowed, permitted, encouraged, tolerated?

Preservation is encouraged, repair to damage is encouraged, playing with
notes to improve their apparent condition is not.

--

The first time you'll get a Microsoft product that doesn't suck will be
the day they start producing vacuum cleaners.