: >That's one of the issues that separates libertarians from the
: >"freedom" posers. They want to use the public land for what they
: >want to use it for.
: Thats why its called Public Land.
Can you see it? It's a form of welfare.
I know a lot of gun nuts that are down on welfare but then turn right
around and demand that the taxpayers support the "public lands" so they
can hunt or even have a thriving shooting club on it.
: >If it ain't private land, it's a tax burden. So,
: >"let the taxpayers fund our shooting range" is the
: >message there. Right or wrong that's the message.
: So then, you are in favor of closing all the public parks, soccer
: fields, lakes and streams?
I know what I'm saying all sounds pretty flakey, but that's how rightous
crazies sound! :) A friend of mine has a gov't printed book that's the
plan laid out to aquire land. And how to go about it. No kidding they
want to close exactly what you're talking about. My brother was a forest
ranger and one of them that cheered and was rightous about bulldozing
cabins in the Santa Rita's. The 99 year leases weren't up, but they found
something they could present as a loop hole in court, after the cabins
were pushed into the canyons. Even if the judge went with the lease
holders the cabins could not be rebuilt according to the lease.
They were pumped! :/
So now the shooting club is in that position and I guarantee you the gov't
will win this one too. I've seen this same thing played out first hand.
Even some libertarians siding with the gun club. :/
Sorry but the shooting range needs to be on private land not welfare land
before I can get behind it 100%. :/ I can only support those that condemn
welfare in all it's forms, I guess. Welfare is bad for those that give
it and those that receive it.
: >Land ownership is -the- key to freedom.
: Yes it is. Think you can get them to sell it to the shooters?
: >Exactly what is "Arizona`s shooting heritage" anyway? What in the hell
: >does that mean? Here in Arizona we have always used taxpayer's land for
: >"shooting sports" so we always should?
: It means Arizona has a long history of the shooting sports. Think the
: State or Feebs will sell the land to them? They would love to buy it.
There is the fight! :) For me it's not about the shooting range it's
about who controls the land and it's use. They want to keep a small part
for themselves, by itself that's no big deal. But the salesman's pitch
for supporting them left out the welfare/taxpayer funding of their range.
That's the part that lit my fuse. :/
: >If the NRA wasn't funded by a group of "sporting goods" manufacturers,
: >but instead was all about the Bill of Rights they would be denouncing
: >the gov't ownership of land instead of promoting its use for their own
: >uses. Oh, and don't forget about keeping it open for hunting so the
: >"shooting sports consumers" can consume the sporting goods.
: My but you are a cynical bastard this morning. No coffee before
: posting? Im not a "sporting goods" manufacture and my payments and
: donations fund the NRA, along with the other 4.5 million members.
Hmmm... You been spying on me? How did you know I was a "cynical
bastard" ;) I used to be a an NRA member and came very close to becoming
a life member back when it only cost $200. And I shouldn't be so down on
the NRA. Gunner, you wouldn't claim the NRA to 100% perfect and I guess
I'm just picking at the scabs. :/
: >Zoning wasn't contested when the NRA members were protecting their
: >house values but suddenly, now it's an issue?
: Zoning wasn't contested because they didn't propose bulldozing their
: homes flat like they want to do with the range.
Where were they when the cabins were being bulldozed flat?
Would they have been on the side thinking that "cool, more hunting and
shooting space" They as a group, have supported zoning laws all along
and now it's turned around to bite them and they are calling foul.
Sorry but it's too late to fool me into believing them now. :/
: >Zoning sucks, Gov't owning land sucks more and the NRA whining about
: >the gov't zoning away their stooting range, what do you call that?
: Legitimate ***?
From a certain perspective, from another it's asking for their fair
share of the pie, many being veterans and all. Too bad the gov't doesn't
work like that. You get in bed with the gov't you're gonna get screwed,
they climbed in bed thinking they had a cozy relationship and then...
"save our piece of welfare from the gov't hatchet men"
: Have some coffee, and mellow out.
Oh man I wish it was that easy! :)
Being mellow and being a libertarian is mutually exclusive. :/
: >Alvin in AZ (didn't say I was smart, just said I was a libertarian)
: >ps- if I was smart I'd shut the hell up :)
: Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley,***d and
: ***d with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman
: explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound"
Sure enough! :)
Alvin in AZ