Being the smart person that I am....

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by justm » Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:02:48



I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in the
hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
concrete tank.

Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid of
about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes
for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it, put
in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a center
hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

Does this sound like a plan?

Thanks

j/b

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Tim Wescot » Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:13:15


Quote:

> I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
> the hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on
> this concrete tank.

> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid
> of about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter. I have only worked
> with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes for a few t-posts
> and a few vertical landscape timbers.

> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
> put in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep
> a center hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

> Does this sound like a plan?

> Thanks

> j/b

Good thing you have a backhoe to put it in place with!

I suspect you need to suspend the rebar where you want it in the final
pour, although I understand that you can lift up reinforcing net by
reaching down through the glop and pulling up on it.

Surely someone's done this on a web page before.  I know there used to be
a Popular Mechanics article on this -- my dad built my grandmother's
septic tank from the afore-mentioned article.  Of course, to use _that_
one you'll need a Popular Mechanics collection that goes back to 1940 or
so...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Winsto » Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:17:29


Hi all,

Here's a question from one of our rec.crafts.metalworking pals.
Help him out if you can, please?

THX.  --Winston

"I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in the
hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
concrete tank.

Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid of
about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes
for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it, put
in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a center
hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

Does this sound like a plan?

Thanks

j/b"

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Steve » Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:48:06



Quote:
> Hi all,

> Here's a question from one of our rec.crafts.metalworking pals.
> Help him out if you can, please?

> THX.  --Winston

> "I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
> the
> hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
> concrete tank.

> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid
> of
> about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
> I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes
> for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
> put
> in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a
> center
> hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

> Does this sound like a plan?

> Thanks

> j/b"

Did you break the top of the tank, or just the lid?  If you just broke the
lid, you can use thick visqueen, and a temporary support under it, and pour
yourself a lid that will match the other one perfectly.Lay the visqueen in
there and fill it with water so it will take the form of the plug.  Wetvac
out the water being careful not to pull the Visqueen out of place.  Being a
metalworker, make a pattern of rebar in there, and a horseshoe shaped
lifting eye.  Weld it all together.  Let it cure for about a week before
lifting.  Lift, peel off the Visqueen, and next time .............  It is
also a very good idea to take a grinder and score two marks, one on the lid,
and one on the tank so that if you do have to pull it again, you can put it
right back in the exact orientation.

Steve, from r.c.m.

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by aemeijer » Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:54:17


Quote:

> Hi all,

> Here's a question from one of our rec.crafts.metalworking pals.
> Help him out if you can, please?

> THX.  --Winston

> "I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in the
> hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
> concrete tank.

> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid of
> about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
> I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes
> for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
> put
> in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a
> center
> hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

> Does this sound like a plan?

> Thanks

> j/b"

I think you will find that you can buy a replacement lid cheaper than
you can make one. (Unless you value your time at zero and happen to have
all the supplies just laying around that would otherwise go to waste.)

--
aem sends...

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Fran » Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:25:36


Quote:


>> Hi all,

>> Here's a question from one of our rec.crafts.metalworking pals.
>> Help him out if you can, please?

>> THX.  --Winston

>> "I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
>> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
>> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell
>> in the
>> hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
>> concrete tank.

>> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own
>> lid of
>> about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
>> I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes
>> for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

>> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

>> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around
>> it, put
>> in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a
>> center
>> hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

>> Does this sound like a plan?

>> Thanks

>> j/b"
> I think you will find that you can buy a replacement lid cheaper than
> you can make one. (Unless you value your time at zero and happen to have
> all the supplies just laying around that would otherwise go to waste.)

> --
> aem sends...

That was my experience.  Once bought a concrete ring and a lid directly
from fabricator and they were dirt cheap.
 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Stu Field » Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:01:45



Quote:
>I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
>two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
>cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in the
>hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
>concrete tank.

> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid
> of about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
> I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes
> for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
> put in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a
> center hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

> Does this sound like a plan?

> Thanks

> j/b

This won't help construct a lid, but don't feel so dumb.  The pro that
installed my septic tank, had just finished when he backed over the tank
with his big diesel hoe and broke the tank.  He had to get the broken one
out and go get another tank.  I don't think that was a high profit day for
him.

stu

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by benic » Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:47:16



Quote:


>>> Hi all,

>>> Here's a question from one of our rec.crafts.metalworking pals.
>>> Help him out if you can, please?

>>> THX.  --Winston

>>> "I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
>>> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
>>> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
>>> the
>>> hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
>>> concrete tank.

>>> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid
>>> of
>>> about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
>>> I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some
>>> holes
>>> for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

>>> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

>>> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
>>> put
>>> in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a
>>> center
>>> hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

>>> Does this sound like a plan?

>>> Thanks

>>> j/b"
>> I think you will find that you can buy a replacement lid cheaper than you
>> can make one. (Unless you value your time at zero and happen to have all
>> the supplies just laying around that would otherwise go to waste.)

>> --
>> aem sends...

> That was my experience.  Once bought a concrete ring and a lid directly
> from fabricator and they were dirt cheap.

Ditto.....They are cheap....
 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Steve » Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:15:08



Quote:





>>>> Hi all,

>>>> Here's a question from one of our rec.crafts.metalworking pals.
>>>> Help him out if you can, please?

>>>> THX.  --Winston

>>>> "I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
>>>> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
>>>> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
>>>> the
>>>> hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
>>>> concrete tank.

>>>> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own
>>>> lid of
>>>> about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
>>>> I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some
>>>> holes
>>>> for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

>>>> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

>>>> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around
>>>> it, put
>>>> in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a
>>>> center
>>>> hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

>>>> Does this sound like a plan?

>>>> Thanks

>>>> j/b"
>>> I think you will find that you can buy a replacement lid cheaper than
>>> you can make one. (Unless you value your time at zero and happen to have
>>> all the supplies just laying around that would otherwise go to waste.)

>>> --
>>> aem sends...

>> That was my experience.  Once bought a concrete ring and a lid directly
>> from fabricator and they were dirt cheap.

> Ditto.....They are cheap....

Yes.  But that would be the EASY way.  We doan need no s***keeng EASY ways!

Steve

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Larry The Snake Gu » Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:51:10



Quote:
> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid of
> about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.

How thick is the old lid? If you're thinking you'll make the lid
thicker so it wont break when you drive over it again, keep in mind
that that just means the tank may break instead. Personally, I'd
rather have the lid break...

Oh, and I come up with a figure of about 940 pounds for your lid (just
the concrete)... But then you do have a backhoe, so maybe that's OK...

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by justm » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:30:02


Thanks, Tim.

Final pour?   I don't understand.  As I foresee it, I will be mixin and
pouring all until it is done.  I planned to put the wire and rebar on
supports where they would be at half of the final thickness.

j/b


Quote:

>> I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
>> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
>> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
>> the hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on
>> this concrete tank.

>> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid
>> of about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter. I have only worked
>> with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes for a few t-posts
>> and a few vertical landscape timbers.

>> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

>> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
>> put in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep
>> a center hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

>> Does this sound like a plan?

>> Thanks

>> j/b

> Good thing you have a backhoe to put it in place with!

> I suspect you need to suspend the rebar where you want it in the final
> pour, although I understand that you can lift up reinforcing net by
> reaching down through the glop and pulling up on it.

> Surely someone's done this on a web page before.  I know there used to be
> a Popular Mechanics article on this -- my dad built my grandmother's
> septic tank from the afore-mentioned article.  Of course, to use _that_
> one you'll need a Popular Mechanics collection that goes back to 1940 or
> so...

> --
> www.wescottdesign.com

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by justm » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:31:21


Thanks, Winston.

j/b


Quote:
> Hi all,

> Here's a question from one of our rec.crafts.metalworking pals.
> Help him out if you can, please?

> THX.  --Winston

> "I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
> the
> hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on this
> concrete tank.

> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid
> of
> about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter.
> I have only worked with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes
> for a few t-posts and a few vertical landscape timbers.

> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
> put
> in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep a
> center
> hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

> Does this sound like a plan?

> Thanks

> j/b"

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Ed Huntres » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:52:04



Quote:
> Thanks, Tim.

> Final pour?   I don't understand.  As I foresee it, I will be mixin and
> pouring all until it is done.  I planned to put the wire and rebar on
> supports where they would be at half of the final thickness.

> j/b

If they're right at half the final thickness, they'll contribute *nothing*
to preventing initial cracks. However, they will contribute considerably to
the final bending strength.

You can look this up for specifics but the general idea is to use the
reinforcement close to the side that's in tension, with just enough concrete
covering the mesh and rebar on the tension side to minimize corrosion. That
means that you want it concentrated near the low side.

If you're into structural design, the point is that concrete has great
compression strength but almost no tensile strength. And the center of any
section -- half the final thickness of your lid, in this case -- is known as
the "neutral axis" in a member that is under a bending load. Structural
material on or near the neutral axis contributes nothing to initial bending
resistance. But once you get some small cracks on the down side, the steel
reinforcement is loaded, and it prevents further cracking. In effect, as it
appears to tension loads on the downside resulting from compression loads on
the topside, the steel is now the "bottom" of the section.

Still, the best strength is obtained by putting your reinforcement near the
bottom of a concrete slab of any kind that's going to have loads imposed
only from the top side. That's the way that most well-made sidewalks and
other concrete structures are reinforced.

--
Ed Huntress

Quote:




>>> I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
>>> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
>>> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
>>> the hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on
>>> this concrete tank.

>>> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own lid
>>> of about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter. I have only worked
>>> with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes for a few t-posts
>>> and a few vertical landscape timbers.

>>> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

>>> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around it,
>>> put in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep
>>> a center hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

>>> Does this sound like a plan?

>>> Thanks

>>> j/b

>> Good thing you have a backhoe to put it in place with!

>> I suspect you need to suspend the rebar where you want it in the final
>> pour, although I understand that you can lift up reinforcing net by
>> reaching down through the glop and pulling up on it.

>> Surely someone's done this on a web page before.  I know there used to be
>> a Popular Mechanics article on this -- my dad built my grandmother's
>> septic tank from the afore-mentioned article.  Of course, to use _that_
>> one you'll need a Popular Mechanics collection that goes back to 1940 or
>> so...

>> --
>> www.wescottdesign.com

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by Winsto » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:16:29


Quote:

> Thanks, Winston.

> j/b

Yerwelcome.

So, are you gonna 'buy or build'?

--Winston

 
 
 

Being the smart person that I am....

Post by justm » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 04:29:11


Thanks, E.

I will then put the rebar/welded wire near the bottom of the lid.  That is,
the side facing the tank.

j/b


Quote:



>> Thanks, Tim.

>> Final pour?   I don't understand.  As I foresee it, I will be mixin and
>> pouring all until it is done.  I planned to put the wire and rebar on
>> supports where they would be at half of the final thickness.

>> j/b

> If they're right at half the final thickness, they'll contribute *nothing*
> to preventing initial cracks. However, they will contribute considerably
> to the final bending strength.

> You can look this up for specifics but the general idea is to use the
> reinforcement close to the side that's in tension, with just enough
> concrete covering the mesh and rebar on the tension side to minimize
> corrosion. That means that you want it concentrated near the low side.

> If you're into structural design, the point is that concrete has great
> compression strength but almost no tensile strength. And the center of any
> section -- half the final thickness of your lid, in this case -- is known
> as the "neutral axis" in a member that is under a bending load. Structural
> material on or near the neutral axis contributes nothing to initial
> bending resistance. But once you get some small cracks on the down side,
> the steel reinforcement is loaded, and it prevents further cracking. In
> effect, as it appears to tension loads on the downside resulting from
> compression loads on the topside, the steel is now the "bottom" of the
> section.

> Still, the best strength is obtained by putting your reinforcement near
> the bottom of a concrete slab of any kind that's going to have loads
> imposed only from the top side. That's the way that most well-made
> sidewalks and other concrete structures are reinforced.

> --
> Ed Huntress




>>>> I drove my (new to me), big, diesel backhoe over the last tank in my
>>>> two-tank septic system.   Still, not too smart but I thought that I had
>>>> cleared it by a foot or two.  NOPE!   So, one of the rear tires fell in
>>>> the hole, not all the way but it competely broke the concrete lid on
>>>> this concrete tank.

>>>> Now, not only being dumb but being cheap, too, I want to make my own
>>>> lid
>>>> of about 6 inches thick and about 4 feet in diameter. I have only
>>>> worked
>>>> with concrete just a bit by pouring it into some holes for a few
>>>> t-posts
>>>> and a few vertical landscape timbers.

>>>> I do have a small (unused by me) concrete mixer.

>>>> Do I simply lay out some plywood on solid ground, build forms around
>>>> it,
>>>> put in some welded wire and some rebar and pour away?  Yes, I will keep
>>>> a center hole open and install some hooks to lift it on the tank.

>>>> Does this sound like a plan?

>>>> Thanks

>>>> j/b

>>> Good thing you have a backhoe to put it in place with!

>>> I suspect you need to suspend the rebar where you want it in the final
>>> pour, although I understand that you can lift up reinforcing net by
>>> reaching down through the glop and pulling up on it.

>>> Surely someone's done this on a web page before.  I know there used to
>>> be
>>> a Popular Mechanics article on this -- my dad built my grandmother's
>>> septic tank from the afore-mentioned article.  Of course, to use _that_
>>> one you'll need a Popular Mechanics collection that goes back to 1940 or
>>> so...

>>> --
>>> www.wescottdesign.com