OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by XPRT » Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:15:34



Sometimes when we get out of our knowledge zone we can't figure anything.  The
question that I need an answer to is this.  I just put in a sewer to connect to
the city line.  The city requires you to break in the lid of the septic and
fill the thing with dirt.  The tank is 10 feet x 6 feet by it appears to be 5-6
feet.  BUT I know it is 1000 gallons.  I am math challenged and can't figure
what I need to order in fill material.  

The city said if I fill with sand, I don't need to break in the 6 inch cement
top.  But if I fill with dirt, I do have to use a jackhammer to break in top
before filling.  Here is where the rub comes in.  One place wants sell you
filler in yards, another in tons, another in truckload(s).

I can't figure how or what formula you use to convert gallons to , yards, tons
or whatever.   Please don't laugh, it is really frustrating!   If I get too
much sand I don't know what to do with it.  If I get too much topsoil I could
use it.  

The other thing is, will a 110v electric jackhammer (Bosch) work, or do I need
to go to the tow behind compressor and heavy duty jackhammer?

Appreciate any enlightment you guys could give.


 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by Mike Graha » Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:47:29



Quote:
>Sometimes when we get out of our knowledge zone we can't figure anything.  The
>question that I need an answer to is this.  I just put in a sewer to connect to
>the city line.  The city requires you to break in the lid of the septic and
>fill the thing with dirt.  The tank is 10 feet x 6 feet by it appears to be 5-6
>feet.  BUT I know it is 1000 gallons.  I am math challenged and can't figure
>what I need to order in fill material.  

  Dense earth has a 'standard' weight of 3375 pounds per yard.  This
is immaterial, because it won't be dense when it's on the truck.  The
numbers you need are these:

 Earth, dry, excavated: 2016 pounds per yard
 Earth, moist, excavated: 2430 pounds per yard
 Sand, loose, 2430 pounds per yard.

For the 'truckload' guy, ask him how much is in a truckload.

  As for the size of the tank, 10 x 6 x 6 = 360 cubic feet
360 * 0.03704 = 13.3 cubic yards.

  As a cross-check, 1000 gallons / 201.974 = 5 cubic yards.

  Hmmm.... Something's fishy, here.  Are you sure about the size of
the tank?  Were those *inside* dimensions, or *outside* dimensions
that you gave?  I would have expected some headspace, but not *that*
much.  Even if the tank is only 5 feet deep that's still 11 yards, and
I wouldn't expect over 50% headspace.  Anyway, if the tank is really
10'x6'x6' internal size, then that's 13.3 cubic yards or around 29,260
pounds of dirt.  That's quite a bit.  So around 15 tons of dirt to
fill the sucker up.  Dump trucks come in various sizes, but the most
common sizes around here are 5 and 10 yard dumpers, so you'll probably
need two trucks, unless somebody's got a 15 yard dumper or a 10 yard
with a 5 yard pony that will fit on your property and can do the job.
Make sure you specify what you need done... they expect to just dump
the stuff on the ground and drive away, if you want them to dump the
stuff in the hole, then a pony truck might not want to do it, because
after dumping the pony it will be a *** to back it around the hole
to dump the main truck... it's doable, but some guys might not want
the hassle, and it's better to find out *before* he dumps it all out
on your lawn and ***s off.

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Mike Graham                  | Fighting the good fight against porosity,

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OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by DANKIRL » Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:56:26


Well, a US gallon is .15556 cu.ft. and a Canadian gallon is .1605  cu.ft.

Figure out if that 1000 gallon septic tank is Cdn. or US gallons and multiply
the correct numbers above by 1000

So for instance here in Waterloo, Ontario, the 1000 Cdn. Gallon tank would hold
160.5 cu ft. of anything.

1 cubic yard is 27 cu. ft., so the 160.5 cu ft. is the same volume as 5.94 cu.
yards.

The awnser in US gallons would be 155.56 cu. ft. or 5.76 cu. yards.

Dan Kirlin

 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by SteelawayNOSPA » Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:25:48


I query your 1000 gallons assumption.  If the tank is rectangular and 10' x
6' x 5' it would contain 300 cubic feet of water which is 300/27 = 11.1
cubic yards.
That amount of sand would weigh 18 tons !

check 1 cu.ft = 28.317 litres

300 cu ft = 300x28.317 = 8,495 litres x 1.8 (density dry sand) = 15,291 kg =
1.529 tonnes = 15.5 tons.
allowing for wet weight of sand 18 tons.

so if your tank is the size you provided - order 18 tons of sand (seems a
lot to me !!)

If the WHOLE tank is 1,000 gallons and you are sure of that - then order 6
and a bit tons.

Steelaway


Quote:
> Sometimes when we get out of our knowledge zone we can't figure anything.
The
> question that I need an answer to is this.  I just put in a sewer to
connect to
> the city line.  The city requires you to break in the lid of the septic
and
> fill the thing with dirt.  The tank is 10 feet x 6 feet by it appears to
be 5-6
> feet.  BUT I know it is 1000 gallons.  I am math challenged and can't
figure
> what I need to order in fill material.

> The city said if I fill with sand, I don't need to break in the 6 inch
cement
> top.  But if I fill with dirt, I do have to use a jackhammer to break in
top
> before filling.  Here is where the rub comes in.  One place wants sell you
> filler in yards, another in tons, another in truckload(s).

> I can't figure how or what formula you use to convert gallons to , yards,
tons
> or whatever.   Please don't laugh, it is really frustrating!   If I get
too
> much sand I don't know what to do with it.  If I get too much topsoil I
could
> use it.

> The other thing is, will a 110v electric jackhammer (Bosch) work, or do I
need
> to go to the tow behind compressor and heavy duty jackhammer?

> Appreciate any enlightment you guys could give.



 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by larsen-tool » Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:43:39


Figuring quantities of "fill" material is kind of tricky because
"compaction" is variable - and you don't want to be involved with that.
 "pea gravel" compacts itself & is easier to handle than sand or dirt.
 I'd allow 1/2 foot wall thickness for the tank so    (9 x 5 x  5)/27 = 8.33
yards
I'd order 8 yards and have it dumped on the open hatch to the tank.
If it's not too late, first I'd try breaking the top of the tank with the
back-hoe & filling it w/ dirt from the site.

Figuring the volume of excavated material is easier - you double it. So, 10
yards in the ground = 20 yards in the truck.


Quote:
> Sometimes when we get out of our knowledge zone we can't figure anything.
The
> question that I need an answer to is this.  I just put in a sewer to
connect to
> the city line.  The city requires you to break in the lid of the septic
and
> fill the thing with dirt.  The tank is 10 feet x 6 feet by it appears to
be 5-6
> feet.  BUT I know it is 1000 gallons.  I am math challenged and can't
figure
> what I need to order in fill material.

> The city said if I fill with sand, I don't need to break in the 6 inch
cement
> top.  But if I fill with dirt, I do have to use a jackhammer to break in
top
> before filling.  Here is where the rub comes in.  One place wants sell you
> filler in yards, another in tons, another in truckload(s).

> I can't figure how or what formula you use to convert gallons to , yards,
tons
> or whatever.   Please don't laugh, it is really frustrating!   If I get
too
> much sand I don't know what to do with it.  If I get too much topsoil I
could
> use it.

> The other thing is, will a 110v electric jackhammer (Bosch) work, or do I
need
> to go to the tow behind compressor and heavy duty jackhammer?

> Appreciate any enlightment you guys could give.



 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by XPRT » Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:35:42


Subject: Re: OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Quote:
>>>>>Figuring quantities of "fill" material is kind of tricky because

"compaction" is variable - and you don't want to be involved with that.
 "pea gravel" compacts itself & is easier to handle than sand or dirt.
 I'd allow 1/2 foot wall thickness for the tank so    (9 x 5 x  5)/27 = 8.33
yards.  I'd order 8 yards and have it dumped on the open hatch to the
tank.>>>>>

I know from the Septic tank pumping company that they said it was a 1000 gallon
tank, thats what was ordered when building my small business.

I have not started as of yet due to incoming rain.  So it is still up in the
air, probably start Saturday.  I don't have a backhoe, but do have a Cub Cadet
with powered bucket.

Ideally,  using flowable fill which is I am told  a mixture of  cement and ash
that will level itself when poured in, but will be scoopable when dry.  But
have heard it is horribly expensive.  Can't find anybody that has it either in
Elkhart, Indiana.

Sand costs $3 a ton more than dirt.  Still going to be a lot of shoveling!

Really appreciate all your inputs, am getting an education.


The dimensions I had given were Outside dimensions.  

 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by jim roze » Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:27:54



Quote:
>Really appreciate all your inputs, am getting an education.

Just be aware of the issues involving working around tanks
like this.  Hydrogen Sulfide gas is poisonous, and gasses
like Methane are potentially explosive.  There may also
be regions in or around the tank that are oxygen deficient.
Enough so that the common event is the person working
near the cover passes out, and either falls in or falls
down on the ground near the cover.  Then the helper rushes
over and also succombs.  They have found 3 or 4 people
this way, one right after the other.  If you are working
around the top of the tank you might want to tie yourself
off with a rope and have a person there who could haul
you away.  

Jim

===================================
      please reply to:
JRR(zero) at watson dot ibm dot com
===================================

 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by Dan Buckma » Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:10:11


The easiest solution to this whole problem is to push the city inspector in
the whole,
Should make a nice fit.

Next best would be to dig a ramp down, knock a door in the side and call it
a bomb shelter.

If the bomb ever does come, the residual smell will be the least of your
worries.

 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by Tim » Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:32:28


Quote:

> The city requires you to break in the lid of the septic and
> fill the thing with dirt.  The tank is 10 feet x 6 feet by it appears to be 5-6
> feet.  BUT I know it is 1000 gallons.  I am math challenged and can't figure
> what I need to order in fill material.

I'm going to guess you mean it is 5-6 feet _deep_, and with that in mind,
'we' can convert feet to yards: 6' wide = 2yd., 10' long = 3 1/3yd (for
extra fill we'll call this 3 1/2 yd), and lastly "5-6'" = 1 2/3 to 2yd.
Multiplying (this assumes it is an ordinary rectangular prism), we get
2 x 4 x 2 = 8 x 2 = 16 yards of fill (I'm pretty sure that volumetric
materials, such as concrete and dirt, are in cubic yards, or just 'yards'
for short...but *mean* cubic yards).
Tim

--
"WOOHOO!  Who would've guessed reading and writing would pay off!"
    - Homer Simpson

 
 
 

OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Post by XPRT » Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:23:48


Subject: Re: OT/Show Me how dumb I am!

Quote:
> The easiest solution to this whole problem is to push the city inspector in

the hole.   Should make a nice fit.

Next best would be to dig a ramp down, knock a door in the side and call it a
bomb shelter.If the bomb ever does come, the residual smell will be the least
of your  worries.>>>>

That was really funny!   But a company called today to say they were in error
stating it would take 13 1/4 yards to fill tank.!  So they guaranteed me that
they would fill it with Flowable Fill right through the opening with 5 1/3
Yards of fill for about  $240.  Since a jackhammer would have cost over a
hundred ten for 4 hours, and then I would have had to pay  a guy a hundred to
shovel dirt into hole after buying it for $230 for enough to fill hole, I opted
for the flowable fill and within ten minutes it was filled!  But alas, they
emptied the truck just shy of full on the tank so they sent a cement truck with
a half yard to cap it off.   The interior dimensions before filling were 9 feet
long by 54 inches wide and 40 inches deep.

Now is anybody interested in a couple Polish anchors?  Since I now have the
lids which are 2 feet wide and 6 inches deep with a rebar lift to get rid of.  

Anyway, thanks to all for your interest and help.  Can't believe the great
variation in amounts to use by so many people that answered here and via email.

Jim    xprtec