vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by Tod » Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:15:18



I am ignorant, please help!

I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but
would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit
down center of 1" bar).  Never saw the use for one when I was first
learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need.

I don't understand, though, why a tool like the Jet VBS-1408 is $3600
whereas the Jet VSF-14-1 (x is more than $1500 cheaper...seems like
self feed would be a good thing, and I'm not sure I see or understand
the value in variable speed, if you have 4 speeds to choose from 70,
140, 280, 580.  What advantages are there with the more expensive saw
(both way about 580 pounds and have a 1 hp motor) -- is it just the
convenience of variable speed, or is it more suitable to precision
cuts?

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=137418
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=137420

I need single phase and a used saw on ebay is possible, if I can find
something decent near me.  Still, I would love to be educated, because
I would have thought the self-feed saw would have been more expensive!

Thanks,
-Todd

 
 
 

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by DoN. Nicho » Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:43:42



Quote:

>I am ignorant, please help!

>I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but
>would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit
>down center of 1" bar).  Never saw the use for one when I was first
>learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need.

>I don't understand, though, why a tool like the Jet VBS-1408 is $3600
>whereas the Jet VSF-14-1 (x is more than $1500 cheaper...seems like
>self feed would be a good thing, and I'm not sure I see or understand
>the value in variable speed, if you have 4 speeds to choose from 70,
>140, 280, 580.  What advantages are there with the more expensive saw
>(both way about 580 pounds and have a 1 hp motor) -- is it just the
>convenience of variable speed, or is it more suitable to precision
>cuts?

        First off -- I can tell you from experience that if the speed
change requires shifting belts, people are likely to say "Just a little
cut at that wrong speed won't hurt it." and burn up a blade.  Being able
to just turn a crank is a big help.

        Aside from that, I note that there are two styles of the
variable-speed bandsaw.  One has a single range: (82 - 330 SFM), while
the other has two ranges: (82 - 330 and 985 to 3950 SFM).  I would opt
for the latter version, unless everything that I was going to cut would
be steel -- and even with steel, there are advantages to being able to
go to nearly 4000 SFM.  Have you ever heard of "friction sawing"?  You
crank the saw up to the top speed, with a toothless or worn out blade,
and *burn* your way through the steel.

        For cutting aluminum, especially fairly thick aluminum, the
higher speeds are a lot better as well.

        The self-feeding of the other makes it excellent for cutting
stock to length (with proper supports and guides for the ends of the
stock.)  It is a serious PITA if you want to cut out a shape in steel or
some other metal.  There, you want a level stationary table, and to be
able to slide the workpiece around to follow layout lines.  It looks as
though that self-feeding saw has a table only on one side of the blade,
meaning that you will have no support for part of your workpiece, making
it difficult to keep level as you slide it around.

        Also -- sometimes, what you want to do is to make a cutout in
the middle of a workpiece.  For that, you drill a hole in the waste
stock in the middle, cut the bandsaw blade, thread it through, and use
the welder (which is only on the variable speed saw) to join the ends.
Then you cut out the inner part, and cut the bandsaw blade again to get
it out --  all without having a saw kerf from the outside to the inside.

        Of the two, if I could have only one (and I don't have either of
those), *I* would pick the variable-speed one with the welder and the
dual speed range as the more versatile.  This is important to me because
I seldom do the same thing twice in a row on a bandsaw -- other than
using my cheap horizontal for cutting stock to length.  I have another
(three-wheel benchtop) with three speeds for cutting out shapes.

        If I were running a production line, where the same metal and the
same size would be cut day after day, the self-feed saw could be set to
the proper speed for the material *once* and then cut all day every day.

        I hope that this helps,
                DoN.
--

        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

 
 
 

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by Don Forema » Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:07:49



Quote:
>I am ignorant, please help!

>I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but
>would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit
>down center of 1" bar).  Never saw the use for one when I was first
>learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need.

>I don't understand, though, why a tool like the Jet VBS-1408 is $3600
>whereas the Jet VSF-14-1 (x is more than $1500 cheaper...seems like
>self feed would be a good thing, and I'm not sure I see or understand
>the value in variable speed, if you have 4 speeds to choose from 70,
>140, 280, 580.  What advantages are there with the more expensive saw
>(both way about 580 pounds and have a 1 hp motor) -- is it just the
>convenience of variable speed, or is it more suitable to precision
>cuts?

>http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=137418
>http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=137420

>I need single phase and a used saw on ebay is possible, if I can find
>something decent near me.  Still, I would love to be educated, because
>I would have thought the self-feed saw would have been more expensive!

I think the four speeds on the VSF are spaced too far apart.    

Why did you reject the Wilton 8201 and 8201VS?  They're  not as heavy
as the Jets, but they have  a cast iron frame.  They're considerably
less money than the Jets.   I have an 8201, am completely satisfied
with it.   It'll cut 1" bar (and thicker)  no problem at all.  

 
 
 

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by Tod » Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:31:14


Quote:
> Why did you reject the Wilton 8201 and 8201VS?  They're  not as heavy
> as the Jets, but they have  a cast iron frame.  They're considerably
> less money than the Jets.   I have an 8201, am completely satisfied
> with it.   It'll cut 1" bar (and thicker)  no problem at all.

How big of a table is on the 8201?  Didn't see it mentioned in the
specs, looked quite small.  I have a plasma cutter for cutting shapes
in plate and general construction where finish isn't too important (or
grinder can fix later)...I need the bandsaw for when precision is
important, but mostly just to make deep (partial) cuts into bar (1" or
1/2", occassionally bigger).

You have the 8201K or 8201VS?  I will add it back on the list, :-)

Thanks for any and all comments.

-Tod

p.s. but still my question, where are the extra $$$ going in the
expensive jet without self feed?  The drivetrain?

 
 
 

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by cvairwe.. » Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:12:22


The VBS unit has a continually varible speed drive system in it. The
chip blower is garbage, repower it by using a regulator and shop air.

Craig C.

 
 
 

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by Don Forema » Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:32:35



Quote:

>> Why did you reject the Wilton 8201 and 8201VS?  They're  not as heavy
>> as the Jets, but they have  a cast iron frame.  They're considerably
>> less money than the Jets.   I have an 8201, am completely satisfied
>> with it.   It'll cut 1" bar (and thicker)  no problem at all.

>How big of a table is on the 8201?  Didn't see it mentioned in the
>specs, looked quite small.  I have a plasma cutter for cutting shapes
>in plate and general construction where finish isn't too important (or
>grinder can fix later)...I need the bandsaw for when precision is
>important, but mostly just to make deep (partial) cuts into bar (1" or
>1/2", occassionally bigger).

>You have the 8201K or 8201VS?  I will add it back on the list, :-)

>Thanks for any and all comments.

The table is 14 x 14.  I have the 8201K.   I might have liked the VS
better but not enough better to pay the additional price.   I don't
change speeds that often.  I seldom cut anything thicker than 1",
often cut stuff considerably thinner than 1".  

In addition, the 8201K has the high "woodcutting" speed which is also
good for aluminum.   It really romps thru aluminum!  

 
 
 

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by spac » Thu, 01 Sep 2005 03:37:59


I think it is great to have a vertical band saw.  But, for the cuts you
describe below, why not just use your horizontal saw in the vertical
mode (if it has one)?
    I have a Taiwan 4X6 1/2" saw that I use all the time as a vertical
saw.  Cuts quite well for the sizes you mention.  If your saw does go
vertical and doesn't have a little table, make one.  I have seen some of
these saws that come with a bolt-on table that is about 6 inches square.
  I had one.  Never used it.  Made a table that is about one inch  by
about 1 1/2".  That way, I don't have to remove it to saw horizontally.
   To use the saw in this mode, you straddle it, using your heels to
keep the machine from moving as you push.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------------

Quote:

> I am ignorant, please help!

> I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but
> would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit
> down center of 1" bar).  Never saw the use for one when I was first
> learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need.

 
 
 

vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408

Post by Tod » Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:59:03


My horizontal is an old kalamazoo and it does not have anything even
approaching a vertical mode... I wish it did... I thought about trying
to rig something up, but it is a nice old heavy saw, and forcing it to
go vertical seems tricky... maybe I will just sell it after I get a
vertical, I'll take another look though, just to make sure there isn't
a simple approach to making it go vertical...thanks for the suggestion