OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Gunluvve » Mon, 05 May 2003 01:51:32



Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather *** metals
are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop rather
than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in making
the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
Just curious,
Dennis
 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Jeff Wisni » Mon, 05 May 2003 02:59:43


I'll be watching this thread too. I've had two teeth snap off irreparably in the
last year and had the remains extracted. I was just at my dentist's a couple of
days ago trying to decide between getting a couple of bridges or a two implants.
He's favoring the implants, 'cause with my luck I'd probably have a tooth to which
a bridge is anchored break off next.

Friends who've had implants installed tell me the soreness after the job isn't bad
at all, far less that what you have after a session of periodontal surgery.

Jeff (Who's learning first hand that when we run our bodies past their design life
everything either breaks, dries up or leaks.)

Jeff Wisnia    (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"I before E except after C"....(The height of insufficient weird ancient
science...)

Quote:

> Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
> In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather *** metals
> are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop rather
> than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in making
> the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
> Just curious,
> Dennis


 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by jim » Mon, 05 May 2003 04:12:48


Quote:

> Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
> In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather *** metals
> are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop rather
> than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in making
> the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
> Just curious,
> Dennis

i had a big jaw tooth pulled at a dental surgeons off, the regular
dentist sent me there as i have very large roots(think its the sweed in
the family *** line, inhereted big teeth.... small body.. well he told
me that for $1,000 he can put a***( iguess its an implant ) and it
will go into the bone and then i go back and he cuts the gum and puts in
the other piece that will stick out the gums and then i go to the
regular dentist and he will then put in an artificial tooth... the
surgeon told me that i had to keep the screw(the part that sticks out
the gums) real clean or it would not work, i guess the gums would recede
down???? well i never got it done, wonder how much it would have cost
after these two guys were finished with me?????  i guess i should have
listened to mom when she told me to brush my teeth..... well next time
around i will listen??? maybe....
 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Loren Co » Mon, 05 May 2003 06:33:43


Quote:


>> Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
>> In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather *** metals
>> are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop rather
>> than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in making
>> the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
>> Just curious,
>> Dennis
> i had a big jaw tooth pulled at a dental surgeons off, the regular
> dentist sent me there as i have very large roots(think its the sweed in
> the family *** line, inhereted big teeth.... small body.. well he told
> me that for $1,000 he can put a***( iguess its an implant ) and it
> will go into the bone and then i go back and he cuts the gum and puts in
> the other piece that will stick out the gums and then i go to the
> regular dentist and he will then put in an artificial tooth... the
> surgeon told me that i had to keep the screw(the part that sticks out
> the gums) real clean or it would not work, i guess the gums would recede

this is critical and is a lifetime requirement.  the emplants will take
and be fine, then later have to be removed.  if you already have great
dental hygeine, you are a candidate, otherwise i would think again.
also, don't place any credence on someone who has not had them for
more that 2yrs.

Quote:
> down???? well i never got it done, wonder how much it would have cost
> after these two guys were finished with me?????  i guess i should have

my wife had four implants (the anchor in bone) and extensive bridge
work.  it all came out after about 18mos, and she has always been
religious about brushing, way better than me.  i asked the dental
surgeon and the dentist why?  they just couldn't answer.  the implants
become infected and have to come out or you risk a serious aftermath.
i wondered if smoking was a factor, again, no one knew.    --Loren
 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Vaugh » Mon, 05 May 2003 07:28:23


I am taking the liberty of cross-posting this question to sci.med.dentistry,
perhaps we will get some interesting answers from people in the "biz".

Vaughn


Quote:
> Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
> In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather ***
metals
> are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop
rather
> than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in
making
> the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
> Just curious,
> Dennis

 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Georg » Mon, 05 May 2003 11:26:22


My wife started the process when we lived in California.  She was losing
four front teeth due to bone erosion so she required bone grafts (not a fun
operation in itself), healing caps, a bit more bone graft, more healing
caps, then the anchors installed.  Unfortunately, we moved across country
(this was a multi-year process) and guess what!!!  Nobody does that "brand"
of implants here and the anchors aren't compatible with the brands used
around here!!!  Also, you should be aware that implants are more difficult
to keep clean than real teeth and the advice given my wife was to get them
professionally cleaned every 3 months.
Doubly unfortunate is the fact I've been laid-off for 18 months so sending
my wife back to California is not currently possible AND she is again
experiencing bone erosion.  We are currently into this for about $18k with
about $6k left (none covered by dental insurance) not including whatever
changes are required due to the continued erosion.  I don't think she'd
choose to go through this again...she was fairly miserable on her "smoothie"
diet.  I hope the ***surgeon at least put a down-payment on a nice car out
of this.


Quote:
> Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
> In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather ***
metals
> are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop
rather
> than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in
making
> the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
> Just curious,
> Dennis

 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by hobbi » Mon, 05 May 2003 15:05:09


Titanium is commonly used.  Purity and standards of handling the
implants must be very high in order for osseointegration to occur.
One company that produces them is Branemark.

James


Quote:
>Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
>In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather *** metals
>are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop rather
>than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in making
>the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
>Just curious,
>Dennis

 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Doug Gonc » Mon, 05 May 2003 19:10:36


Bone is living tissue. On the way in, bacteria are moved from where they live
into places they should never be. A bone infection is a very serious
complication of such surgery.

But I have no experience, so I can't really contribute here.

Yours,

Doug Goncz, Replikon Research, Seven Corners, VA
http://users.aol.com/DGoncz
If a computer won't do what needs to be done, lie to it.
Don't try this trick on people.

 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by hobbi » Tue, 06 May 2003 00:18:48


Bone is vascular living tissue with the ability to fight infection and
regenerate as long as reasonable care is taken with the surgery.
Because the ***cavity is so vascular ***surgeons are able to get
away with much more than general surgeons and healing time is quicker
than in other parts of the body.  True bone infections (osteomyelitis)
in the mouth are rare.  Having said that, implant surgery should be
done under strict sterile procedure.  Surgery candidates should be
carefully selected (healthy immune system, good ***hygiene,
non-smoker, etc.).

James  

 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Lohrin » Tue, 06 May 2003 02:03:03


I have been a dentist for 25 years.  The modern types of titanium implants,
when inserted by trained dentists using the manufacturer's protocols, are
among the most successful of all dental procedures.  The long term success
rate (more than 10 years) is over 90% in most areas of the lower jaw and
close to that in the anterior of the upper jaw.  My personal experience with
implants inserted by various ***surgeons since 1985 has been that if they
heal in place initially, they will last a long time.  The hardware that the
implants support (dentures, bridges, or single crowns) are often more of a
problem.  I have had problems with the screws that hold single crowns to the
implants.

If your teeth were lost due to decay, the prospects are excellent since none
of the metals used will be affected.  If they were lost due to gum disease,
especially if you smoke the long term prospects are poorer.  However, my
first implant patient, who lost his front teeth in an industrial accident,
still has his implant supported bridge.  He has serious bone loss from gum
disease and he smokes.  I suspect he will loose his natural teeth long
before he looses the bridge.

Lohring Miller DMD

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OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Bob Summe » Wed, 07 May 2003 13:25:52



Quote:
>Do any of you in the NG have dental implants? Are you satisfied with them?
>In doing some research on the process it looks like some rather *** metals
>are being used and techniques you would expect to see in a machine shop rather
>than a dentist's office. Does anyone know of any companies involved in making
>the implants and what casting machining processes are used?
>Just curious,
>Dennis

I really like mine.

I've had seven of them in my lower jaw for about 10 years.  I lost
most of my lower teeth to gum disease and am still fighting to keep
my upper teeth.  According to my dental hygienists, I've had very good
hygiene for at least the last 25 years.

About 2 years ago, my periodontist recommended DNA sequencing of the
bugs causing my gum disease.  Using that data he put me on a one
week course of treatment with the right antibiotics and my gum
disease cleared up!

The implants are pure titanium.  For some reason, pure titanium
is compatible with living bone - possibly the inter-molecular
distance is just right.  They also have to use special instruments
to avoid contaminating the implants during installation.  The
compatibility with living bone was discovered by accident
when some graduate student was studying *** circulation in
bone.  He installed titanium fixtures in mice.  After the
experiment, he couldn't get the fixtures out.

The ***surgeon drilled holes all the way through my lower jaw
using a slow speed (4 RPM?) drill.  The slow speed is required
to avoid injuring the bone.  Thankfully, I was asleep through
the whole process.  A good installation has to go all the way
through your jaw bone because a bone is basically a hard shell
with spongy stuff (marrow) inside.  The marrow is not strong
enough to support an implant.

The way it worked for me is that I had 10 teeth pulled in one
sitting.  Ouch! While the ***surgeon had my jaw open he used
a tiny block plane to shave the bone down some.  That was
interesting to watch!

He sewed my gum up - being careful to salvage as much of the
right kind of tissue as he could - That avoids a skin graft
later.  

For 3 months or so, I used a temporary denture while my jaw
healed.  The temporary denture was a real PITA.  All my
dentists said that's the way lower dentures are. Recovery
from the extractions was a little worse than recovering
from the actual implant surgery.

After healing from the extractions, I went back in and
the ***surgeon put me under while he and my prosthodontist
worked out the location of the implants.  They had planned
on 5 but it turned out that I needed 7; The ***surgeon
didn't charge me for the extras - I felt a lot better
about him after that.

After 3 (?) more months, my prosthodontist fitted a denture.
This is much more difficult and precise than fitting ordinary
dentures because the implants don't move and the implants must
be evenly loaded to avoid problems.  He used a special,
hard dental impression compound.  Even so, he got one of
the screws at the wrong angle - there's about a 5 thousandths
gap where my denture meets the implant.  Not a problem except
that it snags dental floss.

Metalworking content - the little gold screws that hold
my denture to the implant cost my prosthodontist $80
each.

It's an expensive procedure.  My periodontist called it
"Rolls-Royce dentistry".  I paid for 5 implants at $1,500
each.   The denture was $5,000 or $6,000 (I don't remember
any more).  The extractions weren't free either.  I think
there was another $1,000 or $2,000 in miscellaneous charges.

Would I do again?  In a heartbeat.

If you're going to do this my advice is:
   o Like with any surgical procedure you want someone who
     has lots of practice.  The ***surgeon I used installs
     implants in several patients a week, almost every week
     for 20+ years.
   o hygiene is important.
   o The prosthodontist you choose needs lots of experience too.
     He becomes your regular dentist after the procedure.
   o Go for proven technology.  My implants were of a style that
     had been in use for 10 to 20 years.

Bob S

 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Lohrin » Thu, 08 May 2003 01:42:30


Bob's experience with time, pain, cost and maintenance is typical.  The
details of implant construction and insertion are very related to machine
shop experience.  Biological compatibility is the big problem and it appears
to finally be solved.

Lohring Miller

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OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Loren Co » Thu, 08 May 2003 02:33:25


Quote:

> Bob's experience with time, pain, cost and maintenance is typical.  The
> details of implant construction and insertion are very related to machine
> shop experience.  Biological compatibility is the big problem and it appears
> to finally be solved.  > > Lohring Miller

i doubt this, they have been doing hip joints for decades and 10 years ago
they started using something that allows the new bone to "colonize" the
interface and suspect that is what is being used in implants, titanium or
no.

Bob's post was great, informative.   thanks,     --Loren

Quote:

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OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by hobbi » Thu, 08 May 2003 09:18:25


I don't have any major problems with Lohring Miller's post.  Hip
joints differe from dental implants in that hip joints are completely
surrounded by tissue.  Dental implants "protrude" from the bone, into
the mouth.  The critical tissue attachment is exposed to the ***
environment and is subject to bacterial, mechanical, and chemical
challenge just as natural teeth are but implants remain significantly
more susceptible to attachment problems than natural teeth.  

If you had a titanium***protruding from your arm bone through your
skin, you would not be surprised if it became infected.  The ***
cavity is not noted for being a sterile environment.  

Patient selection still remains critical.  If your wife smoked I would
strongly suspect that was a major factor in the failure of her
implants.

James  

 
 
 

OT? I am considering dental implants. . .

Post by Loren Co » Fri, 09 May 2003 01:34:57


Quote:

> I don't have any major problems with Lohring Miller's post.  Hip
> joints differe from dental implants in that hip joints are completely
> surrounded by tissue.  Dental implants "protrude" from the bone, into
> the mouth.  The critical tissue attachment is exposed to the ***
> environment and is subject to bacterial, mechanical, and chemical
> challenge just as natural teeth are but implants remain significantly
> more susceptible to attachment problems than natural teeth.  

> If you had a titanium***protruding from your arm bone through your
> skin, you would not be surprised if it became infected.  The ***
> cavity is not noted for being a sterile environment.  

i didn't mean to imply special knowledge about implants, just my opinion.

Quote:
> Patient selection still remains critical.  If your wife smoked I would
> strongly suspect that was a major factor in the failure of her
> implants.  > > James  >

that was my unconfirmed opinion, too, but she was never asked if she
smoked and i didn't think anything of it until the bad news came.  this
was in 1989-91, and it was covered by dental insurance (up to limit), but
now many plans do not cover implants at all.  that says a lot to me.

regards,   --Loren