Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Post by Reid Goldsboroug » Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:43





Quote:
>What professional service would return a coin accompanied by those
>"can't tell for sure" remarks?  They would either declare it authentic
>or return it as a phony.  And they would probably be willing to
>guarantee their call either way.

As I understand it, this is common operating procedure for the
mainstream services. I don't know if they do this universally though.
I've never received a coin back this way. This is just from what I've
heard.

--


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Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Post by Bruce Remic » Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:41:19


Quote:

> actually, I have seen the verbiage that comes back from at least one of the
> services, and rather than state outright the coin was phony, I think they
> used the term doubtful authenticity.

Boy!  Which one???   I sure wouldn't have much use for an authenticating
service that could only "doubt" whether a coin was authentic, and was
unable or unwilling to make a call one way or another.  There's gotta be
something about the coin that raises a question, and that at least
should be spelled out to the submitter.

Bruce

 
 
 

Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Post by Jorg Luek » Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:15:01


Quote:


>> actually, I have seen the verbiage that comes back from at least one of
>> the
>> services, and rather than state outright the coin was phony, I think
>> they
>> used the term doubtful authenticity.

> Boy!  Which one???   I sure wouldn't have much use for an authenticating
> service that could only "doubt" whether a coin was authentic, and was
> unable or unwilling to make a call one way or another.  There's gotta be
> something about the coin that raises a question, and that at least
> should be spelled out to the submitter.

> Bruce

IIRC PCGS has verbiage similar to the above as one of the possible options
for a "no grade".  I don't remeber seeing a "coin is a counterfeit" as a
possibility for a no grade.
 
 
 

Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Post by Ira Ste » Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:53:04


Quote:
Reid writes:

<< As I understand it, this is common operating procedure for the
mainstream services. I don't know if they do this universally though.
I've never received a coin back this way. This is just from what I've
heard.

 >>

Both NGC and PCGS, the two leading grading services, use the "doubtful
authenticity" phrase. I suppose this relieves them of the obligation to turn
the "coin" over to the Secret Service.

Chill out, Bruce ;)
Everyone in the industry knows what that phrase means.

Ira Stein

 
 
 

Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Post by Bruce Remic » Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:45:51


Quote:



> >> actually, I have seen the verbiage that comes back from at least one of
> >> the
> >> services, and rather than state outright the coin was phony, I think
> >> they
> >> used the term doubtful authenticity.

> > Boy!  Which one???   I sure wouldn't have much use for an authenticating
> > service that could only "doubt" whether a coin was authentic, and was
> > unable or unwilling to make a call one way or another.  There's gotta be
> > something about the coin that raises a question, and that at least
> > should be spelled out to the submitter.

> > Bruce

> IIRC PCGS has verbiage similar to the above as one of the possible options
> for a "no grade".  I don't remeber seeing a "coin is a counterfeit" as a
> possibility for a no grade.

If a grading/authentication service can't or refuses to say for sure if
a submitted coin is a counterfeit, copy, or altered specimen, I wouldn't
entrust it to interpret the subtleties in the MS grade ranges either.
Like PCGS or PCGS-slab purchasers would really care what I think....

Bruce

 
 
 

Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Post by Bruce Remic » Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:49:08


Quote:

> Reid writes:

> << As I understand it, this is common operating procedure for the
> mainstream services. I don't know if they do this universally though.
> I've never received a coin back this way. This is just from what I've
> heard.

> Both NGC and PCGS, the two leading grading services, use the "doubtful
> authenticity" phrase. I suppose this relieves them of the obligation to turn
> the "coin" over to the Secret Service.

> Chill out, Bruce ;)
> Everyone in the industry knows what that phrase means.

> Ira Stein

Makes sense, I guess.  Consider me chilled, Ira.  Just shows I don't get
out much in the numismatic world.

Bruce
"Please don't use the word 'industry'.  It's scaring me."

--
Researching REMICK worldwide.
http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/r/e/m/Bruce-Remick/

 
 
 

Buyer Beware of the 1831 Half Cent - Actually an altered 1834

Post by Bob Peterso » Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:07:20



Quote:




> > >> actually, I have seen the verbiage that comes back from at least one
of
> > >> the
> > >> services, and rather than state outright the coin was phony, I think
> > >> they
> > >> used the term doubtful authenticity.

> > > Boy!  Which one???   I sure wouldn't have much use for an
authenticating
> > > service that could only "doubt" whether a coin was authentic, and was
> > > unable or unwilling to make a call one way or another.  There's gotta
be
> > > something about the coin that raises a question, and that at least
> > > should be spelled out to the submitter.

> > > Bruce

> > IIRC PCGS has verbiage similar to the above as one of the possible
options
> > for a "no grade".  I don't remeber seeing a "coin is a counterfeit" as a
> > possibility for a no grade.

> If a grading/authentication service can't or refuses to say for sure if
> a submitted coin is a counterfeit, copy, or altered specimen, I wouldn't
> entrust it to interpret the subtleties in the MS grade ranges either.
> Like PCGS or PCGS-slab purchasers would really care what I think....

Remember the story of the double headed coin that the slabbing services
thought was likely legit but none of them would slab?  I think sometimes
they error on the side of caution when making such pronouncements,
especially when they spend maybe all of 30 seconds looking at a coin.  my
guess is they know to an absolute certainty of the time that a coin they
label as "doubtful authenticity" is indeed a fake, but there are probably a
small percentage of cases where they just do not know.  there have been any
number of such cases (cal gold and gold slugs come to mind) where the
services just won't slab things that they are not completely sure of either
way.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> Bruce