UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by A.Gen » Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:22:41



Can anyone explain to me why some UK George 4th coins refer to the king as
"George IIII", and others use "George IV"?

I'm familiar with the anecdote about "some English king" who "corrected"
some unnamed clockmaker, resulting in Roman numerals for clockfaces counting
as: I, II, III, IIII, V, but I don't see how that translates to coinage.

A "IIII" example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3301630492

A "IV" example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1946799842

There are (of course) many other examples.

 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by JP » Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:12:45


George IIII George IV are both correct, but the IV is a sort of shorthand in
roman numbers. This is from http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/numbers.html
"The easiest way to note down a number is to make that many marks - little I's.
Thus I means 1, II means 2, III means 3. However, four strokes seemed like too
many....So the Romans moved on to the symbol for 5 - V. Placing I in front of
the V or placing any smaller number in front of any larger number indicates
subtraction. So IV means 4."

Quote:

> Can anyone explain to me why some UK George 4th coins refer to the king as
> "George IIII", and others use "George IV"?

> I'm familiar with the anecdote about "some English king" who "corrected"
> some unnamed clockmaker, resulting in Roman numerals for clockfaces counting
> as: I, II, III, IIII, V, but I don't see how that translates to coinage.

> A "IIII" example:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3301630492

> A "IV" example:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1946799842

> There are (of course) many other examples.


 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by Richard Adam » Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:10:17


In 1789, Carlos III of Spain kicked the royal bucket, new dies didn't
spread to the colonial mints in the new world as quickly as the news.
The bust of old King Carlos was continued into 1790, with the III
replaced by IV, until dies with the bust of Carlos IIII arrived and IV
was replaced by IIII.

Quote:

> Can anyone explain to me why some UK George 4th coins refer to the king as
> "George IIII", and others use "George IV"?

> I'm familiar with the anecdote about "some English king" who "corrected"
> some unnamed clockmaker, resulting in Roman numerals for clockfaces counting
> as: I, II, III, IIII, V, but I don't see how that translates to coinage.

> A "IIII" example:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3301630492

> A "IV" example:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1946799842

> There are (of course) many other examples.

--
---------------------------------------------
* Richard Adams, ackthpt(at)concentric.net  *
---------------------------------------------
 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by ELur » Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:23:59


One can see why the arabic system of numeration was adopted.

The "IV" version of 4 is relatively new, the Romans never used it. In Europe,
if you look at very old gravestones, you will notice that "IV" isn't used at
all prior to the middle of the 18th century, and "D" isn't either.

eric l.

 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by Richard Adam » Wed, 01 Jan 2003 06:09:24


My nomination for best use of Roman Numerals on a coin:

http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/mdccclxxiii.jpg

There's a couple gothic crowns coming up in Heritage auctions, but alas,
not after this holiday season.

Quote:

> One can see why the arabic system of numeration was adopted.

> The "IV" version of 4 is relatively new, the Romans never used it. In Europe,
> if you look at very old gravestones, you will notice that "IV" isn't used at
> all prior to the middle of the 18th century, and "D" isn't either.

> eric l.

--
---------------------------------------------
* Richard Adams, ackthpt(at)concentric.net  *
---------------------------------------------
 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by A.Gen » Wed, 01 Jan 2003 08:00:42


Thanks to all those who replied.
I'm still confused, but that's a function of senility.


Quote:
> My nomination for best use of Roman Numerals on a coin:

> http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/mdccclxxiii.jpg

That is a *real pretty* coin.  Is it yours and/or is it up for auction in
the forseeable?
 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by Richard Adam » Wed, 01 Jan 2003 11:23:59


Quote:

> Thanks to all those who replied.
> I'm still confused, but that's a function of senility.



> > My nomination for best use of Roman Numerals on a coin:

> > http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/mdccclxxiii.jpg

> That is a *real pretty* coin.  Is it yours and/or is it up for auction in
> the forseeable?

'tis mine and no plans to sell, as 'tis the finest of the few of these
florins I do have.

--
---------------------------------------------
* Richard Adams, ackthpt(at)concentric.net  *
---------------------------------------------

 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by A.Gen » Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:26:44



Quote:
> 'tis mine and no plans to sell, as 'tis the finest of the few of these
> florins I do have.

Sensible chap.
I'd keep it too.

Now I'm off to search for something *almost* as nice.

 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by Richard Adam » Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:37:45


Best of luck!

(Rubs hands and cackles with glee, as the collecting virus spreads :-)

Quote:



> > 'tis mine and no plans to sell, as 'tis the finest of the few of these
> > florins I do have.

> Sensible chap.
> I'd keep it too.

> Now I'm off to search for something *almost* as nice.

--
---------------------------------------------
* Richard Adams, ackthpt(at)concentric.net  *
---------------------------------------------
 
 
 

UK coinage query - George IIII or IV?

Post by A.Gen » Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:57:46


Ratbag.
There goes my hopes of retirement this decade.


Quote:
> Best of luck!

> (Rubs hands and cackles with glee, as the collecting virus spreads :-)




> > > 'tis mine and no plans to sell, as 'tis the finest of the few of these
> > > florins I do have.

> > Sensible chap.
> > I'd keep it too.

> > Now I'm off to search for something *almost* as nice.

> --
> ---------------------------------------------
> * Richard Adams, ackthpt(at)concentric.net  *
> ---------------------------------------------