Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by MKWELBO » Sun, 01 Sep 1996 04:00:00



The new Corvette ingot collection from Franklin Mint brings back all the
best of the 1970's, yet the first ingot is only $9.95.  Each ingot is 2
inch by 1 and 1/2 inch and the artwork is fantastic.  Even the lettering
is sculpted and not done by computer.

Good solid looking display too.  Limited to 5000 sets.  It is worth
checking out if you like this stuff.  Regular price is $37.50.  Sure beats
anything from anybody else.

Michael

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by t.. » Sun, 01 Sep 1996 04:00:00



tes:

Quote:
>The new Corvette ingot collection from Franklin Mint brings back all the
>best of the 1970's, yet the first ingot is only $9.95.  Each ingot is 2
>inch by 1 and 1/2 inch and the artwork is fantastic.  Even the lettering
>is sculpted and not done by computer.

>Good solid looking display too.  Limited to 5000 sets.  It is worth
>checking out if you like this stuff.  Regular price is $37.50.  Sure beats
>anything from anybody else.

>Michael

This is fine if the reason you are buying them is for their appearence.
$9.95 is not really a bargin for a 1oz bar of silver, hope their not only
sterling like FM likes to make.  When you get to $37.50 per oz, wow!!!
Too bad the Hunt brothers did not come up with an idea like this, maybe
they would not have gone bankrupt when they had all of that silver and the
price bottomed out :)

Wait until we see a die-hard corvette owner that needs a new glass Targa top
for about $1400-$1500 and turns to sell off his FM ignots he paid 7X too
much for.  I wonder what he is going to accuse the dealer of that only offers
him about $5.50 each for them??

For close to $37.50 each you can get a lot of slabbed MS63 Morgan $s.
They too are fantastic plus have the benefit of being sold for about the
same price as they are bought for, maybe even make some $ after a few
years.  I do not think that you will find anything that the FM makes that
comes close to this.

Did anyone else see when FM marketed the $20 St. in Unc cond in a Mahogony
box for $995??  I wonder what they would grade if they were sent in to
PCGS or NGC.  I also wonder how many people since needed money and tried
selling them to a dealer?  Any dealers out there have any good stories
about upset customers trying to sell their valuable FM coins or medals??
Let's hear them, there must be some.

tim

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by MKWELBO » Sun, 01 Sep 1996 04:00:00


The purpose of the corvette ingots is for collecting.  Franklin Mint no
longer stresses investment potential.

The $37.50 price kills anything the US Mint is currently making when
compared to the artwork involved.

Quit comparing medallics to coins.  They are totally different collecting
fields.  Slabbed Morgan dollars may be a good investment and they do look
good, but totally unrelated to The Franklin Mint type offerings.  

BTW the St. Gaudens $20 piece from Franklin Mint is in BU condition.  The
price is high, but it is unrelated to the things that Franklin makes.

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by t.. » Mon, 02 Sep 1996 04:00:00



tes:

Quote:
>The purpose of the corvette ingots is for collecting.  Franklin Mint no
>longer stresses investment potential.

As I said in my post, buying them for collecting is fine.  Enjoying a hobby
is fine and being an enthusiast about something is also fine.  However, too
often than not, these people are taken advantage of because of their love for
an item such as the Corvette.  Some people do not take the time to consider
what the actual worth is of what they are buying.  Recently, I was in contact
with an individual who purchased a set of sterling silver medals from FM a few
years ago.  Now he is having financial difficulty and wished to sell them.  He
advertised on the net and was surprised to find he could not recoup more than
20% of what he paid.  He was outraged, he actually thought he could turn a
profit!  FM can not stress investment potential of what they sell, because
most of it has absolutely no investment potential.  The prices for the actual
coins they sell, modern and ancient, are almost double the current market
price if you bought from a coin dealer.  God, those mahogany cases must be
worth a fortune.

Quote:

>The $37.50 price kills anything the US Mint is currently making when
>compared to the artwork involved.

These ingots may demand a price greater than their silver content, just as the
BU Silver Eagles from the US Mint do.  However, the price difference is a hell
of a lot more!  Buying for the artwork is also fine, just don't complain if
and when there is a need to sell because no one other than a Corvette fan will
be willing to pay much over spot for them.  Many of the modern commemoratives
sold by the US Mint do have a cost in relation to that of these ingots.  It
should be noted though that most of these proof commemorative prices include a
sizeable donation to a non-profit agency, such as the US Olympic Committee.
They also trade between coin dealers for, not issue value, but a lot more than
melt value.  You may be willing to pay for the artwork but the money you are
paying is going to pad some CEO  and stock-holder's pockets.

Quote:

>Quit comparing medallics to coins.  They are totally different collecting
>fields.  Slabbed Morgan dollars may be a good investment and they do look
>good, but totally unrelated to The Franklin Mint type offerings.

I will not argue that coins and medallics are the same, they are different.
However, at the same time they are similar.  I have not seen many medallics
dealers, most of these items are sold to coin dealers when they are no longer
needed or money is wanted, and most coin dealers will not find the same
est ethic value for them that you do.

Quote:

>BTW the St. Gaudens $20 piece from Franklin Mint is in BU condition.  The
>price is high, but it is unrelated to the things that Franklin makes.

I have read the advertising also.  I have never seen one from FM.  I assume
that you have purchased one and are sufficiently trained to be able to
accurately grade $20 St. pieces to be able to make that statement.  If this is
so, then you truly are one of the FM's fools and discussing this with you is
pointless.  The most common mistake people make when buying or selling coins
is that they do not do their homework!  It is not hard to visit a library or
stop by a book store and look up a few prices.  These books will probably
report the value of a BU $20 St. a bit higher than it would trade for , but it
is a hell of a lot less than $995, at least for most dates.  Not investigating
coin values and taking someone's word usually gets people ripped-off if they
are not dealing with an honest dealer.  Believe it or not but there are
dealers that would do this.  Then the whole coin world is to blame!

The price of the FM $20 St. is unrelated to what the FM makes, agreed.  It is
an example of their blatant over-pricing of items, I mean that mahogany case
really worth the extra $400-$500??  You may fully well know what you are doing
but there may be people on this group that are not informed of the actual
worth of these items.  For example, I received a FM game as a gift.  I did not
want it but knew it sold for $550 from a booklet they sent me.  I would have
gave it back but did not feel like paying shipping charges.  I offered it for
sale on the collecting group, it is supposedly a collectible.  I did this for
about a year, even asked less than worth.  I finally was able to trade it to a
collectibles auction for $240 in credit.  That is less than half of it's
selling price.  Well I saw it in the auction, followed the price, the last bid
was for $110!  Hey, it was one of those Mahogany cased games, not worth
$400-$500??

You can buy whatever you want and for whatever reason you want.  I am just
trying to inform the general public about the actual worth of these items.
You can rant and rave about the artwork and quality of these ingots all you
want but they will never be worth $37.50 unless silver is selling for $37.50
per ounce.

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by MKWELBO » Mon, 02 Sep 1996 04:00:00


How can you tell that there will never be a secondary market for Franklin
Mint items.  I know of several large dealers that put out lists of old
Franklin Mint medallics and sell out every time.  Of course they are
offered below retail, but that is the dealers faut.  If al dealers decided
to sell the stuff at a premium, it would sell, but as long as people can
buy the stuff for scrap, heck why not.  

The dies used to create on corvette ingot cost over $100,000.  The set is
limited to 5000, what If 10,000 want a set?  

An olympic silver dollar from US Mint cost around $35.  For that amount
you get a
cheaply designed (mainly lettering) politically correct coin, packaged in
a cheap display.  The mint doesn't really even have a toll-free number
except from an answering service.   A FRanklin Mint corvette ingot is
licensed and the artwork is by a true artist,  the minting is high relief,
 the ingot is also twice as large as a US Mint half dollar.  Yet priced
about the same.  Not to mention all the included paperwork and displays.
The Franklin Mint takes the true ART OF MINTING and applies it to hot
collectibles.  I would dare say that if US mint ran a division that
offered old St Gaudens etc.. their prices would be similar to those of the
Franklin Mint.  Is it not the dealers that ruined the values of coins
anyway.  Give me a break, St Gaudens worth only $450 a little more above
bullion value.  I know its true, but it is a shame.  Perhaps all coins
should be made of aluminum or cupronickel so bullion value wouldn't be
considered.

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by Dan Master » Mon, 02 Sep 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> How can you tell that there will never be a secondary market for Franklin
> Mint items.  I know of several large dealers that put out lists of old
> Franklin Mint medallics and sell out every time.  Of course they are
> offered below retail, but that is the dealers faut.  If al dealers decided
> to sell the stuff at a premium, it would sell, but as long as people can
> buy the stuff for scrap, heck why not.

You are forgetting that there are two sides to the equation, supply AND
demand.  If dealers, as individuals or in general, could get more for
these items they probably would raise the prices.  There is not enough
demand.

Quote:

> The dies used to create on corvette ingot cost over $100,000.  The set is
> limited to 5000, what If 10,000 want a set?

What if 1000 want sets?  That must be the sort of thing that happenes
with other FM products.  I think that a lot of people fall for the slick
ads and buy this stuff thinking it is 'rare' and will increase in price.
 They make up a large part of the market.  When they find out no one
really wants the stuff and everyone is waiting to make a profit, they
sell at a loss.

Quote:

> An olympic silver dollar from US Mint cost around $35.  For that amount
> you get a
> cheaply designed (mainly lettering) politically correct coin, packaged in
> a cheap display.  The mint doesn't really even have a toll-free number
> except from an answering service.   A FRanklin Mint corvette ingot is
> licensed and the artwork is by a true artist,  the minting is high relief,
>  the ingot is also twice as large as a US Mint half dollar.  Yet priced
> about the same.  Not to mention all the included paperwork and displays.

You must remember that 'technically' the silver dollar is a coin.  There
are lots of coin collectors.  Not so many silver ingot/art collectors.

Quote:
> The Franklin Mint takes the true ART OF MINTING and applies it to hot
> collectibles.  I would dare say that if US mint ran a division that
> offered old St Gaudens etc.. their prices would be similar to those of the
> Franklin Mint.  Is it not the dealers that ruined the values of coins
> anyway.  Give me a break, St Gaudens worth only $450 a little more above
> bullion value.  I know its true, but it is a shame.  Perhaps all coins
> should be made of aluminum or cupronickel so bullion value wouldn't be
> considered.

Look around you.  Nearly all coins are made of some such stuff.  It's a
shame we cannot all decide what price supply and demand will place on
various items.  I'd like to see coins a lot cheaper--I buy coins.  
Unfortunately, a lot of other people buy coins also.  I buy some coins
that are not made of silver or gold, are very poorly crafted, and look
like hell.  I pay a lot of money for them.  Beauty and intrinsic value
play a small part overall in coin prices.

Dan M

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by James R McCo » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

>How can you tell that there will never be a secondary market for Franklin
>Mint items.

I can't predict the future, but I seriously doubt that this will happen.

Quote:
> I know of several large dealers that put out lists of old
>Franklin Mint medallics and sell out every time.  Of course they are
>offered below retail, but that is the dealers faut.  If al dealers decided
>to sell the stuff at a premium, it would sell, but as long as people can
>buy the stuff for scrap, heck why not.

First of all, who are these dealers? I have never heard of them. The only
dealers that I hear of buying & selling Franklin Mint products are s***
bullion dealers.

Secondly, do you think that these dealers are pricing their goods so low out
of the goodness of their hearts? If they could sell them at higher prices,
believe me, they would!

Quote:
>The dies used to create on corvette ingot cost over $100,000.  The set is
>limited to 5000, what If 10,000 want a set?

What if only 100 want a set? What happens to the other 4900?

Quote:
>An olympic silver dollar from US Mint cost around $35.  For that amount
>you get a
>cheaply designed (mainly lettering) politically correct coin, packaged in
>a cheap display.  The mint doesn't really even have a toll-free number
>except from an answering service.   A FRanklin Mint corvette ingot is
>licensed and the artwork is by a true artist,  the minting is high relief,
> the ingot is also twice as large as a US Mint half dollar.  Yet priced
>about the same.  Not to mention all the included paperwork and displays.
>The Franklin Mint takes the true ART OF MINTING and applies it to hot
>collectibles.  I would dare say that if US mint ran a division that
>offered old St Gaudens etc.. their prices would be similar to those of the
>Franklin Mint.  Is it not the dealers that ruined the values of coins
>anyway.  Give me a break, St Gaudens worth only $450 a little more above
>bullion value.  I know its true, but it is a shame.  Perhaps all coins
>should be made of aluminum or cupronickel so bullion value wouldn't be
>considered.

I won't argue with you about the modern US mint commemoratives. The designs are
often shabby and the secondary market prices are underwhelming. However,
compared with the secondary market for Franklin mint products, the modern
commemoratives are like blue chip stocks!

There just aren't many people who collect Franklin mint stuff.

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by t.. » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00



tes:

Quote:
>Franklin Mint has 10 million active people on their mailing lists.

Where do you come up with all of these numbers?  You sound like a walking
adverti***t for FM!  I hope you do not really believe all of the hype they
put in their advertising.  First, most of their business comes from plates.
Many people buy them for gifts or for special occasions.  Hell, I bought the
Teddy Bear Wedding plate because it came out before my wedding, our theme was
teddy bears, and it made my wife very happy.  Everyone on their mailing list
is "active", do you really think that they keep mailing to people who do not
buy anything?  The numbers do not really mean anything either.  In the spring,
I received their catalog at four addresses and my wife received them at three
addresses in both her married and maiden names.  That means we were counted
seven times in their mailings and only constitute one household, a household
that will probably never buy anything from them again.

Quote:

>If 100 bought the corvette ingots, then Franklin Mint would cancel it.

They would not.  They already paid for the dies and the advertising, they
probably even minted most of the first few.  They would sell them and make
sure that there were a large number of ingots in the set.  They would then
move on and target another group and start another set.

Quote:
>Franklin Mint is not stupid,  they are in business to make money.  Most of
>the current collectors of Franklin Mint buy the stuff just because they
>like it.

Of course they are not.  They target groups of fanatics that are usually know
to have a good deal of disposable income.  Corvette owners are notorious for
being fanatics about their cars, so are Mustang owners, hell with all of the
TV commercials Saturn owners would be a group also.  Now, which group do you
think has the greater amount of disposable income?  Right, the Corvette
owners.  Maybe when they run out of ideas they will turn to Ford for a Mustang
set.  They are in the business to make money, a lot of money.  The US Mint is
not in the business of making money, that is turning a profit I mean :)
Some of what they take in goes directly to help groups.  I am sure many coin
collectors feel better knowing a few $ is going to a needy group and that is
what has left the mint get away with declining quality.

Buy if you like, I always said that is fine.  It is why I buy all of the coins
I buy because they are not a guaranteed investment either.  However, people
should have the right to know that if they buy these ingots, they will take a
70% or more loss if they try to sell them in the near future.  Your first post
is fine if you are only concerned about the quality of the artwork and the
items in question.  The problem I have is with your assertion that the price
is a bargin at $37.50 each, for it is not with respect to their resale value.

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by t.. » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00



tes:

Quote:
>How can you tell that there will never be a secondary market for Franklin
>Mint items.  I know of several large dealers that put out lists of old
>Franklin Mint medallics and sell out every time.  Of course they are
>offered below retail, but that is the dealers faut.  If al dealers decided
>to sell the stuff at a premium, it would sell, but as long as people can
>buy the stuff for scrap, heck why not.

I can not tell the future but FM has been in business for many years, at least
10 that I can think of, and one has not developed.  There is sort of a
secondary market for their plates, however a great deal more people collect
the plates than ingots.  I have not heard of any of these large dealers, why
not enlighten us with some references for this statement.  Also, how much
under retail do they sell?  This must mean that the people selling to the
dealers are getting a really bad return.  Also, if these items would sell at a
premium, the dealers would be selling them for that.  People can buy them from
dealers for s***because the original purchaser sells them for less than
scrap, because most other people know what they are really worth and are not
willing to pay for them.  If you know of all these "dealers" why do you not
wait until they get in the Corvette ingots and buy them for scrap?  Knowing
the "dealers" you know, only a complete jack-ass would pay full issue price
for anything from the FM!  It is not the dealer's fault, it is the greed of a
company and the gullibility of some people that are to blame.

Quote:

>The dies used to create on corvette ingot cost over $100,000.  The set is
>limited to 5000, what If 10,000 want a set?

I hardly believe your cost quote here.  How about some documentation for this
assertion.  Maybe the dies for the entire set cost $100,000, at $100,000 per
ingot die adding in advertising, rent, salaries, materials, production
equipment, packaging, and loss due to fraud the costs would exceed the price
on an issue set of 5000.  What is 10,000 want a set?  Well, if they thought
that 10,000 would be sold they would have advertised a limited number of
10,000 sets.  Ever hear of market research?  They have a pretty good idea of
how many sets will sell and they will not waste time and effort making too
many.  What is only 1000 want a set?  Easy, they melt down the Corvette
ingots, target animal lovers, and make a wildlife set.  Don't forget to add
into the costs above, the money they had to pay GM to use the Corvette name.
Quote:

>An olympic silver dollar from US Mint cost around $35.  For that amount
>you get a
>cheaply designed (mainly lettering) politically correct coin, packaged in
>a cheap display.  The mint doesn't really even have a toll-free number
>except from an answering service.   A FRanklin Mint corvette ingot is
>licensed and the artwork is by a true artist,  the minting is high relief,
> the ingot is also twice as large as a US Mint half dollar.  Yet priced
>about the same.  Not to mention all the included paperwork and displays.
>The Franklin Mint takes the true ART OF MINTING and applies it to hot
>collectibles.  I would dare say that if US mint ran a division that
>offered old St Gaudens etc.. their prices would be similar to those of the
>Franklin Mint.  Is it not the dealers that ruined the values of coins
>anyway.  Give me a break, St Gaudens worth only $450 a little more above
>bullion value.  I know its true, but it is a shame.  Perhaps all coins
>should be made of aluminum or cupronickel so bullion value wouldn't be
>considered.

Yes, the mint has slipped in quality.  That Olympic silver $ will still
command a lot more than the Corvette ingot in resale value.  Also, there is a
greater number of people interested in collecting coins than in Corvette
items.  As long as a country is minting coins there will be coin collectors,
Corvette interest will only last as long as GM makes them and they are around.
I would be willing to bet that in 100 years there are still coins being minted
but very few Corvettes left on the road, just my prediction.

BTW, just a few quick questions:
1)  Do you work for the FM?
2)  Do you own a Corvette?
3)  Have you already bought any of these ingots?
4)  How many years have you been collecting coins or ingots?

Just want to understand your perspective.

- Show quoted text -

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by John Krawcz » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00


I always used to want Liberty Seated & Bust dollars but now have decided
that FM New Corvette Ingots are much more historically important.  Thus
I must have them only I've never seen one.  Where can one buy them?

Only other question is are these the Naval type corvettes or the car corvettes?

John R. Krawczyk II

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by JSTONE93 » Tue, 03 Sep 1996 04:00:00


There is a secondary market for Franklin Mint products, I see a section in
the classified area of Numismatic News for Franklin Mint items.  8 ads
in the Sept. 3 issue.  I don't know if these people are hard core
collectors
or just people looking to unload the stuff for whatever they can get for
it.

John S.  

 
 
 

Franklin Mint NEW Corvette Ingots WOW!!!!!!

Post by Aram H. Haroutuni » Fri, 06 Sep 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>I always used to want Liberty Seated & Bust dollars but now have decided
>that FM New Corvette Ingots are much more historically important.  Thus
>I must have them only I've never seen one.  Where can one buy them?
>Only other question is are these the Naval type corvettes or the car corvettes?
>John R. Krawczyk II

==============================================
ROFLMAO!!  Aram (Bustpoet)