1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by <le.. » Mon, 11 Aug 1997 04:00:00



I am very confused on what makes a type 2 proof set. I have a 1979
certified set with 2 marked filled S the other 4 marked clear S. I
purchaced a raw !981proof type 2 set  and all of them are filled. Is this a
true type 2 set? Using a 35x magnifier there is a very slight seperation on
the S mint mark  on two of the coins

 
 
 

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by Jeffrey Saltzm » Mon, 11 Aug 1997 04:00:00


The type 1 sets have the "s" mint mark that looks like a "glob" of "s" if
that makes any sense.  The type 2 has just what the name implies...a
clearly defined "s".  To find a true 1981 type 2 proof set is rare indeed.
What is more common, unfortunately, is for the set to have been opened and
a Kennedy type 2 inserted and super-glued back together.  You might want to

address for Alan Herbert and I know of no better expert than Alan.

Jeffrey Saltzman

Quote:

> I am very confused on what makes a type 2 proof set. I have a 1979
> certified set with 2 marked filled S the other 4 marked clear S. I
> purchaced a raw !981proof type 2 set  and all of them are filled. Is this a
> true type 2 set? Using a 35x magnifier there is a very slight seperation on
> the S mint mark  on two of the coins

--
Character is what you do when no one is looking.

 
 
 

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by Mike or Karen Lock » Mon, 11 Aug 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> I am very confused on what makes a type 2 proof set. I have a 1979
> certified set with 2 marked filled S the other 4 marked clear S. I
> purchaced a raw !981proof type 2 set  and all of them are filled. Is this a
> true type 2 set? Using a 35x magnifier there is a very slight seperation on
> the S mint mark  on two of the coins

The distinguishing factor for type 1 and type 2 mint marks are
different for 1979 and 1981.  1979 type 1 "S" is a glob.  It is
normally "filled".  In 3-D it looks a bit like an egg cut in
half along the long dimension.  The 1979 type 2 "S" is very sharp
and uniform in height from the field from top to middle to bottom,
there is no confusing this mm with the above.  The mint mark may
or may not be filled depending on how strongly is was punched into
the die.

The 1981 type 1 vs type 2 mm is an entirely different animal.  Either
type mm may be filled or clear.  The type 2 mm looks slightly larger
and is asymetric, and has more pronounced serifs.  Under 6x
magnification in a side-by-side comparison the difference is
obvious enough; although it is tough to tell when looking at just
one coin.

Now a question for you: what is a certified proof set?  A set
of individual slabs?  Please explain.

--

                  Most things worth doing aren't easy.

Mike is EAC #4357, LSCC #1636, JRCS #841, ANA #R-170301, CCS #F11, SPPN

Visit our home page http://www.rahul.net/karenml for a coin book review,
coin want list, coin for sale list, 20th century US coin hub list, and
California fractional gold attribution/price guide.

 
 
 

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by DOND » Tue, 12 Aug 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>The 1981 type 1 vs type 2 mm is an entirely different animal.  Either
>type mm may be filled or clear.

Actually, the 1979s type II mintmark *IS* the 1981s type I mintmark...Same
punch
was used on both sets & all 1980s, I believe.

Dondi3

 
 
 

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by AnswerMa » Tue, 12 Aug 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>I am very confused on what makes a type 2 proof set. I have a 1979
>certified set with 2 marked filled S the other 4 marked clear S.

======
First of all, if your set had a "filled" S, the mintmark would be missing
from the coin. The Red Book has been using incorrect terms for both
varieties for a number of years.
The so-called "filled" S is actually a worn punch. It is distinguished by
a rectangular base rising from the field, with a weak S outline on the
highest relief.
In the latter part of 1979 a new mintmark punch was introduced. which has
symetrical (perfect circle) top and bottom loops.  At the field level
there are openings into both the upper and lower loops. This punch was
used for the remainder of 1979, all of 1980 and the first part of 1981.
Note that this is the 1979 Type II punch, which then became the 1981 Type
I punch.
In the latter part of 1981 another new punch was introduced. This punch
has an identical, symetrical lower loop, but the upper loop is  elongated
and flattened at the top, so it is not a perfect circle. This became the
1981 Type II punch.

Both the 1981 Type I and 1981 Type II punches have "clear" loops, so that
term is meaningless. Both have openings at field level into the upper and
lower loops. The sole difference is the elongation of the upper loop,
which also has a different serif at the tip. However, the serif shape is
often altered by die polishing, so the elongation is the only permanent
marker.

A set, Type I or Type II, consists of all six coins with the same mintmark
punch. If there is a mixture of types, then it is classified as a partial
set, and priced accordingly.

I continue to offer a photo chart with the four punch types, if you will
include a loose 32-cent stamp with your request to:

Alan Herbert
1010 Yuma St.
Belle Fourche, SD 57717-2232>I

Quote:
>I purchaced a raw !981proof type 2 set  and all of them are filled. Is

this a true type 2 set?
======
There is  no "filled" mintmark variety for the 1981 proof coins.

Alan Herbert - Contributing Editor, Numismatic Products - Krause Publications, Inc.
"The world's largest hobby publisher"

 
 
 

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by Michael Schmid » Tue, 12 Aug 1997 04:00:00


Same punch was used but it was detererating and beginning to fill
between the serifs and the center of the S.  You must learn the
distinctive shapes of the serifs and the shapes of the openings in the
loops to tell the two types apart.

Michael Schmidt

 
 
 

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by AnswerMa » Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>the shapes of the openings in the
>loops to tell the two types apart.

======
This information is incorrect, as the shape of the openings has nothing to
do with the punch used. Rather, it depends on the abrasion of the die, so
it is not constant, and not a valid marker for the two varieties. See my
previous posting explaining this.

Alan Herbert - Contributing Editor, Numismatic Products - Krause Publications, Inc.
"The world's largest hobby publisher"

 
 
 

1979 and 1981 type 2 sets ?

Post by DOND » Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>Same punch was used but it was detererating and beginning to fill
>between the serifs and the center of the S.  You must learn the
>distinctive shapes of the serifs and the shapes of the openings in the
>loops to tell the two types apart.

>Michael Schmidt

This is only partially true, Michael.  The serifs have nothing to do with
it, at least on the 81s; nor do the openings in the loops.  Rather it is
the *outside* of the loops that should be used to identify the two types
on the 81s.  On the 79s its the "clarity" of the two types; the type I is
blob-like...the type II 79s is clear with a well-defined *S* shape to it.
The 79s type I have no openings at all in the loops.

Dondi3

Dondi3
whew, I didn't know I had a sig file...