Happy May Day, Comrades!

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by Mike Marott » Tue, 03 May 2005 09:43:55



Workers Paradise promised an end to Money
(C) Copyright 2000 by Michael E. Marotta

Quote:
>From ancient times in western Europe the 1st of May has been a

traditional holiday, often the first warm day of the year. In the 19th
century international labor organizers turned it into Labor Day. In the
old USSR, May Day parades were big events, as they had been with
socialists all over the world. Since the publication of Das Kapital in
1867, radical communists, leftwing anarchists, and pale pink liberals
all expected capitalism to be gone by May Day 2000.

While communism seems to have withered away, Marxist ideas still drive
a lot of common assumptions about money, even in America.

Numismatic writers have hyped the 1804 dollar and other famous rarities
to the point where millions of people believe that anyone can find a
rare coin worth thousands if not millions of dollars just by checking
their pocket change. Numismatic writers have nutured a myth that anyone
can buy a coin today and hold on to it for 20 years and sell it at a
huge profit. These errors in the philosophy of wealth stem from
communist ideas about money.

In the popular science fiction series Star Trek, only the Ferengi seem
to enjoy money. Star Fleet and the Federation live without it. In fact,
in one episode, Capt. Jean-Luc Picard tells a man from our time that in
the future, people are more concerned with improving themselves than
they are with the accumulation of things. This attitude, from a man in
a uniform who commands some people and obeys the orders of others, begs
a few questions. In the absence of money, how does the Federation know
whether to open a mining colony or build ships? How does anyone know
what to do?

Money is a repository of human action. Action requires work, which is
energy spent over time. Robinson Crusoe alone on his island needed
money. He needed to know what actions would maximize his life. Whether
and what to plant, whether and what to hunt are economic questions.
Enter another person into the equation and money becomes more
complicated. You now need money which is an accounting tool for someone
else's bookkeeping. Robinson Crusoe did not need complicated money
even when Friday showed up because Friday had made himself Crusoe's
slave. That is the essence of communism.

It is a dichotomy that in our world slave nations have beautiful paper
money while Americans put up with boring bank notes. Another way to
look at it is that American money really is worth something, so it does
not need three-dimensional see-through holograms. Even more, Americans
design their own money. We are all numismatists, applying theory to
practice, when we choose the designs of our checks, or pick a charge
card with a nice logo.

The core of American numismatic collectibles are the 19th and early
20th century coins that remind us of an earlier time. Karl Marx's
Communist Manifesto called for the establishment of public schools, an
income tax, and centralized banking. U.S. gold, silver, and bronze
coins with images of Liberties, eagles, and Indians on them remind us
of an earlier time when education, the funding of national defense, and
the operations of demand deposit savings accounts were all done
differently.

Collectors labor under the burden of a secret guilt: we are greedy.
Numismatists such as the curators at the British Museum or the
Hermitage are supposed to be above these feelings. They enjoy a purity
that comes from studying material they do not own. And that may be fine
for them. For most collectors ownership rests on pride.

Those who work hard for their money have every right to enjoy the
products and services their money can buy.

Yet, even in America, we harbor a suspicion that capitalists do not
earn their money. Asset management seems more like *** than it
does like driving a truck. That is a communist attitude. Investment
banking seems like *** mostly to people who do not know how to
drive a truck. The attitude that wealth comes from lucky *** is
the root of the fallacy that you can buy the right coin today and sell
it tomorrow for more without doing any work. The essence of such sloppy
thinking is the quick slide over the word "right." What is the "right"
coin?

Knowing the right coin from all the other tens of trillions of coins in
the world today requires a mental effort. It is an effort that the
communists have not successfully made. Perhaps in the future they will.

 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by Edwin Johnsto » Tue, 03 May 2005 10:25:35


Quote:

> Workers Paradise promised an end to Money
> (C) Copyright 2000 by Michael E. Marotta

>>From ancient times in western Europe the 1st of May has been a
> traditional holiday, often the first warm day of the year. In the 19th
> century international labor organizers turned it into Labor Day. In the
> old USSR, May Day parades were big events, as they had been with
> socialists all over the world. Since the publication of Das Kapital in
> 1867, radical communists, leftwing anarchists, and pale pink liberals
> all expected capitalism to be gone by May Day 2000.

> While communism seems to have withered away, Marxist ideas still drive
> a lot of common assumptions about money, even in America.

> Numismatic writers have hyped the 1804 dollar and other famous rarities
> to the point where millions of people believe that anyone can find a
> rare coin worth thousands if not millions of dollars just by checking
> their pocket change. Numismatic writers have nutured a myth that anyone
> can buy a coin today and hold on to it for 20 years and sell it at a
> huge profit. These errors in the philosophy of wealth stem from
> communist ideas about money.

<snip>

Indeed, communists have long been the bane of coin collectors. If it
weren't for Marx and Engels I'd likely be able to cherrypick silver
dollars from the bank.
Oh, well, I guess I just have to make due with the socialist coupon society.

 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by Bob Hairgrov » Tue, 03 May 2005 11:02:43




Quote:
>Workers Paradise promised an end to Money
>(C) Copyright 2000 by Michael E. Marotta

>>From ancient times in western Europe the 1st of May has been a
>traditional holiday, often the first warm day of the year. In the 19th
>century international labor organizers turned it into Labor Day. In the
>old USSR, May Day parades were big events, as they had been with
>socialists all over the world. Since the publication of Das Kapital in
>1867, radical communists, leftwing anarchists, and pale pink liberals
>all expected capitalism to be gone by May Day 2000.

If you ever have read "1984" by George Orwell, I think you might want
to revise the above timeline. <g>

Did you ever consider that:

(a) Some communists are not "radical" (e.g. Italy and the Communist
party there);
(b) Some anarchists are actually right-wing, if you consider any
attempt to undermine or overthrow a democratic government by whatever
means to be "anarchist";
(c) Most liberals would certainly not consider themselves "pale pink"
and would not want to be put in the same pot as the "radical
communists" and "leftwing anarchists" you mention above??

Quote:
>While communism seems to have withered away, Marxist ideas still drive
>a lot of common assumptions about money, even in America.

Considering the fact that we have countries such as China and North
Korea today which still adhere to communist ideals, I find it hard to
understand how you can say that communism has "withered away" ...
besides, there are plenty of Russians who would love to see Stalin
reinstated in their history books ... as well as those who would love
to see the old monarchy of the tsars and Nicholas II reinstated ...
both equally appalling options IMHO...

Quote:
>Numismatic writers have hyped the 1804 dollar and other famous rarities
>to the point where millions of people believe that anyone can find a
>rare coin worth thousands if not millions of dollars just by checking
>their pocket change.

Most people who check their pocket change for rarities would be happy
to find a variant type penny or dime (or whatever) which might be
worth $25 instead of $0.02 ... I think you overlook the sport of it
all!

Quote:
>Numismatic writers have nutured a myth that anyone
>can buy a coin today and hold on to it for 20 years and sell it at a
>huge profit. These errors in the philosophy of wealth stem from
>communist ideas about money.

It's very hard to follow the above reasoning ... especially when
followed by StarTrek ... Can you elaborate, or quote more detailed
sources to support this THEORY of yours?

Quote:
>In the popular science fiction series Star Trek, only the Ferengi seem
>to enjoy money. Star Fleet and the Federation live without it. In fact,
>in one episode, Capt. Jean-Luc Picard tells a man from our time that in
>the future, people are more concerned with improving themselves than
>they are with the accumulation of things. This attitude, from a man in
>a uniform who commands some people and obeys the orders of others, begs
>a few questions. In the absence of money, how does the Federation know
>whether to open a mining colony or build ships? How does anyone know
>what to do?

What does StarTrek have to do with a hill of beans, or the price of
onions???

Quote:
>Money is a repository of human action. Action requires work, which is
>energy spent over time. Robinson Crusoe alone on his island needed
>money.

Oh, really? What for, indeed?

Quote:
>He needed to know what actions would maximize his life. Whether
>and what to plant, whether and what to hunt are economic questions.
>Enter another person into the equation and money becomes more
>complicated. You now need money which is an accounting tool for someone
>else's bookkeeping. Robinson Crusoe did not need complicated money
>even when Friday showed up because Friday had made himself Crusoe's
>slave. That is the essence of communism.

Uhh ... did he or didn't he need ... money?? You seem to be
contradicting yourself here.

Money must have been highly irrelevant for R.C. You can only use money
for transactions, i.e. to pay for other things. And money for
transactions between two persons only is highly irrelevant because
monetary devices (coins, paper money, glass beads, or whatever) depend
on some kind of standard which in turn depends on some institution
guaranteeing the intrinsic value of things. And lacking that
institution/government/whatever, barter will certainly be the
prevailing form of transaction (which is why the black market had it
much easier in Siberia for the longest time despite reglatory
legislation in Moscow after 1917).

Quote:
>It is a dichotomy that in our world slave nations have beautiful paper
>money while Americans put up with boring bank notes.

Huh???

Quote:
>Another way to
>look at it is that American money really is worth something, so it does
>not need three-dimensional see-through holograms. Even more, Americans
>design their own money. We are all numismatists, applying theory to
>practice, when we choose the designs of our checks, or pick a charge
>card with a nice logo.

Except that coins are made of metal...credit cards, etc. are not.
OTOH, I guess there are people who collect wooden nickels and call
them "coins".

Quote:
>The core of American numismatic collectibles are the 19th and early
>20th century coins that remind us of an earlier time. Karl Marx's
>Communist Manifesto called for the establishment of public schools, an
>income tax, and centralized banking. U.S. gold, silver, and bronze
>coins with images of Liberties, eagles, and Indians on them remind us
>of an earlier time when education, the funding of national defense, and
>the operations of demand deposit savings accounts were all done
>differently.

So ... what is your point here?

Quote:
>Collectors labor under the burden of a secret guilt: we are greedy.

I have no such secret guilt! <g> I know damn well that if I had to
sell all of my coins tomorrow, that I would probably have to take a
loss of at least 30% for most of my stuff.

Quote:
>Numismatists such as the curators at the British Museum or the
>Hermitage are supposed to be above these feelings. They enjoy a purity
>that comes from studying material they do not own. And that may be fine
>for them. For most collectors ownership rests on pride.

>Those who work hard for their money have every right to enjoy the
>products and services their money can buy.

OK...

Quote:
>Yet, even in America, we harbor a suspicion that capitalists do not
>earn their money.

Who are "we"? Sounds a lot like the standard Faux-News line: "Some
people say...". I am a U.S. citizen, yet I do not harbor that
suspicion ... especially since the current national deficit makes it
very difficult to earn any money that is actually worth anything
internationally.

Quote:
>Asset management seems more like *** than it does like driving
>a truck. That is a communist attitude.

Says who?? "Seems more" smacks of Faux-News again...

Quote:
>Investment banking seems like *** mostly to people who do not know how to
>drive a truck.

Do you know how to drive a truck? How many people do you personally
know who would support that?

Quote:
>The attitude that wealth comes from lucky *** is
>the root of the fallacy that you can buy the right coin today and sell
>it tomorrow for more without doing any work. The essence of such sloppy
>thinking is the quick slide over the word "right." What is the "right"
>coin?

The "right" coin is the one you want to buy. Lots of people buy coins
without worrying about how much they can sell it for in the future.

Quote:
>Knowing the right coin from all the other tens of trillions of coins in
>the world today requires a mental effort. It is an effort that the
>communists have not successfully made. Perhaps in the future they will.

Huh?? What does the above have to do with Communism? And why do you
refer to "the future" concerning them if you think their ideas have
"withered away" by now?

--
Bob Hairgrove

 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by linxlv » Tue, 03 May 2005 11:40:27


Quote:
>>From ancient times in western Europe the 1st of May has been a
> traditional holiday, often the first warm day of the year. In the 19th
> century international labor organizers turned it into Labor Day.

I didn't know international labor organizers had this much authority. And
to think we can't even get bush to fund passenger rail service as much as
a typical thirsd world nation funds theirs. I suppose holidays are the
only thing we are in control of. I'll put in for some new ones

Quote:
> Numismatic writers have hyped the 1804 dollar and other famous rarities
> to the point where millions of people believe that anyone can find a
> rare coin worth thousands if not millions of dollars just by checking
> their pocket change. Numismatic writers have nutured a myth that anyone
> can buy a coin today and hold on to it for 20 years and sell it at a
> huge profit. These errors in the philosophy of wealth stem from
> communist ideas about money.

I never considered the editors of shop at home channels as "Numismatic
writers".
Quote:

> In the popular science fiction series Star Trek, only the Ferengi seem
> to enjoy money. Star Fleet and the Federation live without it. In fact,
> in one episode, Capt. Jean-Luc Picard tells a man from our time that in
> the future, people are more concerned with improving themselves than
> they are with the accumulation of things. This attitude, from a man in a
> uniform who commands some people and obeys the orders of others, begs a
> few questions. In the absence of money, how does the Federation know
> whether to open a mining colony or build ships? How does anyone know
> what to do?

If they needed minerals from a mine, the mining colony. If they needed
more ships...
Quote:

> Money is a repository of human action. Action requires work, which is
> energy spent over time. Robinson Crusoe alone on his island needed
> money. He needed to know what actions would maximize his life. Whether
> and what to plant, whether and what to hunt are economic questions.
> Enter another person into the equation and money becomes more
> complicated. You now need money which is an accounting tool for someone
> else's bookkeeping. Robinson Crusoe did not need complicated money even
> when Friday showed up because Friday had made himself Crusoe's slave.
> That is the essence of communism.

> It is a dichotomy that in our world slave nations have beautiful paper
> money while Americans put up with boring bank notes. Another way to look
> at it is that American money really is worth something, so it does not
> need three-dimensional see-through holograms. Even more, Americans
> design their own money. We are all numismatists, applying theory to
> practice, when we choose the designs of our checks, or pick a charge
> card with a nice logo.

That explains the real reason for our bills getting fancier lately! Our
currency has gone down so much in value, we had to start making it look
like slave nations with three dimensional holographic coin. (Now that
sounds like a collection I could afford to complete)

Quote:
> The core of American numismatic collectibles are the 19th and early 20th
> century coins that remind us of an earlier time. Karl Marx's Communist
> Manifesto called for the establishment of public schools, an income tax,
> and centralized banking. U.S. gold, silver, and bronze coins with images
> of Liberties, eagles, and Indians on them remind us of an earlier time
> when education, the funding of national defense, and the operations of
> demand deposit savings accounts were all done differently.

> Collectors labor under the burden of a secret guilt: we are greedy.

SPEAK FOR YOUR SELF! My wife and I have always been impressed with the
GENEROSITY of the group of people who call themselves coin collectors.

Quote:
> Numismatists such as the curators at the British Museum or the Hermitage
> are supposed to be above these feelings. They enjoy a purity that comes
> from studying material they do not own. And that may be fine for them.
> For most collectors ownership rests on pride.

> Those who work hard for their money have every right to enjoy the
> products and services their money can buy.

I couldn't agree more. And that is why it is so WRONG when people that
don't have a lot are steam rollered by those who do. Medical benefits
being a good example in the US. Or how about social security?

Quote:
> Yet, even in America, we harbor a suspicion that capitalists do not earn
> their money. Asset management seems more like *** than it does like
> driving a truck. That is a communist attitude. Investment banking seems
> like *** mostly to people who do not know how to drive a truck. The
> attitude that wealth comes from lucky *** is the root of the
> fallacy that you can buy the right coin today and sell it tomorrow for
> more without doing any work. The essence of such sloppy thinking is the
> quick slide over the word "right." What is the "right" coin?

Who did you say you studied philosophy under? You did hear the cold war is
over, right?

Quote:

> Knowing the right coin from all the other tens of trillions of coins in
> the world today requires a mental effort. It is an effort that the
> communists have not successfully made. Perhaps in the future they will.

--
dw
 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by tomdelo.. » Tue, 03 May 2005 11:29:52


Or, as Jay Guren used to sing at Coin World every year:
"Hooray! Hooray! The First of May!
 Outdoor screwing starts today!!!"
.
Tom DeLorey, tipping one up to a friend and former colleague
 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by Dale Hallmar » Tue, 03 May 2005 11:41:39



<Big snip>

Quote:
> While communism seems to have withered away.......

One comment about communism....... ( I ain't for it by the way)
Prior to and during WWII, in Germany and Austria resistance to Nazism was
not
all that great actually.  Much less than you might think.

So if you are interested in who resisted the most......It was the communist.
They didn't resist all that much but every other organized group (there were
many)
Christian, Monarchist, etc. resisted less.

Dale
Well it was all I could think of~!

 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by Jeff » Tue, 03 May 2005 15:32:21



Quote:
> Workers Paradise promised an end to Money
> (C) Copyright 2000 by Michael E. Marotta

Last year's grape harvest went well, then, Michael?

--
Jeff R.

 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by note.bo » Wed, 04 May 2005 05:47:07


I was thinking crop harvest, the one with the spiky leaves.  Billy
Quote:



> > Workers Paradise promised an end to Money
> > (C) Copyright 2000 by Michael E. Marotta

> Last year's grape harvest went well, then, Michael?

> --
> Jeff R.

 
 
 

Happy May Day, Comrades!

Post by Alan William » Sat, 14 May 2005 13:05:10


Quote:

> Or, as Jay Guren used to sing at Coin World every year:
> "Hooray! Hooray! The First of May!
>  Outdoor screwing starts today!!!"
> .
> Tom DeLorey, tipping one up to a friend and former colleague

I spent that Golden Week in Forbidden City, at the Great Wall, the
temple of Confuscious and the 48th World Table Tennis championships in
Shanghai. ;-)

Alan
'saw none of that outdoor stuff'