I am getting sick of these fake bust dollars

I am getting sick of these fake bust dollars

Post by Dave Wels » Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:11:01




Quote:

[snip]
> > So what should numismatists do? Forget about eBay, it's a lost cause and
> > is
> > only going to get worse. Fakes, scams and all types of fraud will
> > continue
> > to proliferate unless and until the legal authorities step in, for eBay
> > only
> > wants to avoid responsibility and does not care how many people are
> > defrauded. Go to VCoins where VAuctions has just been set up. Bill Puetz
> > has
> > a great concept and polices his operation well. There are 27,668 items
> > offered for sale on VCoins now worth $6,342,911. No eBay, but still
> > impressive and functioning very well. A strict code of ethics is
enforced
> > and anything that looks even slightly suspicious is investigated and
> > acted
> > on immediately.

> > Dave Welsh
> > Classical Coins
> > www.classicalcoins.com

> > http://www.vcoins.com/classicalcoins

> But how many bust dollars are on Vcoins?

There will be as many bust dollars as people want to put on VCoins auctions.
They can protect themselves with reserves and starting bids so there will be
no risk. Announcing such auctions on the coin discussion lists and this
newsgroup will draw plenty of interest.

I am sure that if there is sufficient interest Bill will set up appropriate
categories such as ancients, early US etc.

Meanwhile, if the only criterion is how many coins are offered, nothing will
ever replace eBay. But knowledgeable buyers of ancient coins have already
learned that they are far better off going to VCoins (and to independent
sites such as Classical Coins) where they get bargains that are just as good
or better, and don't have to pick these out from a minefield of fakes,
misrepresented material, sellers who don't deliver and other unethical
transactions. eBay is a jungle. It is like New York City would be with no
police. The only reason massive amounts of fraud are not being reported is
that most victims do not realize they have been sold fakes.

Dave Welsh
Classical Coins
www.classicalcoins.com

 
 
 

I am getting sick of these fake bust dollars

Post by Jorg Luek » Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:41:59


Quote:




> [snip]
>> > So what should numismatists do? Forget about eBay, it's a lost cause
>> and
>> > is
>> > only going to get worse. Fakes, scams and all types of fraud will
>> > continue
>> > to proliferate unless and until the legal authorities step in, for
>> eBay
>> > only
>> > wants to avoid responsibility and does not care how many people are
>> > defrauded. Go to VCoins where VAuctions has just been set up. Bill
>> Puetz
>> > has
>> > a great concept and polices his operation well. There are 27,668 items
>> > offered for sale on VCoins now worth $6,342,911. No eBay, but still
>> > impressive and functioning very well. A strict code of ethics is
> enforced
>> > and anything that looks even slightly suspicious is investigated and
>> > acted
>> > on immediately.

>> > Dave Welsh
>> > Classical Coins
>> > www.classicalcoins.com

>> > http://www.vcoins.com/classicalcoins

>> But how many bust dollars are on Vcoins?

> There will be as many bust dollars as people want to put on VCoins
> auctions.
> They can protect themselves with reserves and starting bids so there
> will be
> no risk. Announcing such auctions on the coin discussion lists and this
> newsgroup will draw plenty of interest.

> I am sure that if there is sufficient interest Bill will set up
> appropriate
> categories such as ancients, early US etc.

> Meanwhile, if the only criterion is how many coins are offered, nothing
> will
> ever replace eBay. But knowledgeable buyers of ancient coins have already
> learned that they are far better off going to VCoins (and to independent
> sites such as Classical Coins) where they get bargains that are just as
> good
> or better, and don't have to pick these out from a minefield of fakes,
> misrepresented material, sellers who don't deliver and other unethical
> transactions. eBay is a jungle. It is like New York City would be with no
> police. The only reason massive amounts of fraud are not being reported
> is
> that most victims do not realize they have been sold fakes.

> Dave Welsh
> Classical Coins
> www.classicalcoins.com


Ah I didn't know Vcoins was expanding into the US market.  Although in US
coins there are also existing alternatives to ebay.  This is also one area
where a few of the grading services provide some value in eliminating
fakes, altered coins, whizzed discs, and horribly overgraded junk.  Some
people will always lose reason in the search for a "bargain" and for them
there is little help.  Now I don't know if things are as bleak as you
paint them above; if they are, then Ebay should be motivated by self
preservation if nothing else.  If it devolves into a junk bin the sellers
and bidders will leave and so will the fees.

 
 
 

I am getting sick of these fake bust dollars

Post by Keith Fletche » Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:49:24


Dave said --

The way that eBay operates is widely misunderstood. eBay has very carefully

Quote:
> set up their operation so that they are NOT legally an auction venue and
> have no responsibility for the authenticity of the items sold, for other
> misrepresentation or for fraud. All of these things are legally the
> responsibility of the buyer and seller.

> So don't expect eBay to do anything. Not only is it true that they really
> aren't interested, it is also true that in many if not most cases, eBay
> CANNOT take any action without prejudicing their carefully cultivated
> isolation from responsibility...

I agree this is what they are trying to do.  And they won a big case a few
years back that no doubt hit them as a 'get out of jail free' card.  But it
is one thing to turn a blind eye to auctions that are going on under the
radar screen, and quite another to do nothing about auctions when you have
been warned, time and again, that it is a scam, and from people who know
what they are talking about.  I've said it before, they are in for one hell
of a class action lawsuit, only this next one they will lose.  Right now
corporate greed is what is stopping them from some creative, low cost ways
of addressing these bad auctions.  Or at least, with stopping many more of
them than they do now.

--Keith

 
 
 

I am getting sick of these fake bust dollars

Post by Ian » Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:02:47


Quote:

> Dave said --

> The way that eBay operates is widely misunderstood. eBay has very carefully

>>set up their operation so that they are NOT legally an auction venue and
>>have no responsibility for the authenticity of the items sold, for other
>>misrepresentation or for fraud. All of these things are legally the
>>responsibility of the buyer and seller.

>>So don't expect eBay to do anything. Not only is it true that they really
>>aren't interested, it is also true that in many if not most cases, eBay
>>CANNOT take any action without prejudicing their carefully cultivated
>>isolation from responsibility...

> I agree this is what they are trying to do.  And they won a big case a few
> years back that no doubt hit them as a 'get out of jail free' card.  But it
> is one thing to turn a blind eye to auctions that are going on under the
> radar screen, and quite another to do nothing about auctions when you have
> been warned, time and again, that it is a scam, and from people who know
> what they are talking about.  I've said it before, they are in for one hell
> of a class action lawsuit, only this next one they will lose.  Right now
> corporate greed is what is stopping them from some creative, low cost ways
> of addressing these bad auctions.  Or at least, with stopping many more of
> them than they do now.

> --Keith

Wherz yur Secrit Survissez whenz ya needz 'em?!?

The level of problem we tend to discuss here doesn't need any Mulder and
Skully level of input (unless the aliens are behind it all). It only
requires low level `official' input which can be escalated when and if
warranted.

However, we are still talking about something in the region of $50,000
(?) of an annual budget to get a desk bound wallah in place dedicated to
just looking at ebay auctions etcetera and getting into the
communication channels of `numismatics'. .....Maybe therein lies the
problem? That is, for all the supposed interest of the `authorities' is
there any budget committment made for actually tackling the problem?..or
are we still at a `still measuring the true extent of the problem' stage?

Ian

 
 
 

I am getting sick of these fake bust dollars

Post by Larry Louk » Tue, 20 Jul 2004 21:32:13


"Reid Goldsborough" stated:

Quote:
> Being able to substantiate your views helps to. One way is point to a
> picture of the same fake. I've set up my page of Bust dollar fakes for
> this purpose:

> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/reidgold/draped_busts/page_7.html

Thanks, Reid! I just had a look and there is some very helpful information
there. It's appreciated!

Larry
'always learning'