Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Mr. Ji » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:44:04



Hi, I'm new buying coins. I ordered a couple "Brilliant Uncirculated"
silver dollars from International Coins and Currency, for $29 each. I
was expecting them to be without scratches, but they both have
scratches on them, the Peace dollar has a pretty deep one right on the
face, and the Morgan has some pretty deep scratches as well. I am
wondering if this is normal for coins referred to as BU? Should I keep
them or return them and ask for ones without scratches? These are not
"certified" PGSS/NGC graded coins.

Please advise. Thank you for your help.

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Dale Hallmar » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:00:27


Send them back!

Dale


Quote:
> Hi, I'm new buying coins. I ordered a couple "Brilliant Uncirculated"
> silver dollars from International Coins and Currency, for $29 each. I
> was expecting them to be without scratches, but they both have
> scratches on them, the Peace dollar has a pretty deep one right on the
> face, and the Morgan has some pretty deep scratches as well. I am
> wondering if this is normal for coins referred to as BU? Should I keep
> them or return them and ask for ones without scratches? These are not
> "certified" PGSS/NGC graded coins.

> Please advise. Thank you for your help.


 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Ira Ste » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:40:43


Quote:
Mr Jimi writes:

<< Hi, I'm new buying coins. I ordered a couple "Brilliant Uncirculated"
silver dollars from International Coins and Currency, for $29 each. I
was expecting them to be without scratches, but they both have
scratches on them, the Peace dollar has a pretty deep one right on the
face, and the Morgan has some pretty deep scratches as well. I am
wondering if this is normal for coins referred to as BU? Should I keep
them or return them and ask for ones without scratches? These are not
"certified" PGSS/NGC graded coins.

Please advise. Thank you for your help.
 >>

I am a long time dealer, a regular on this forum. A coin described as BU will
generally be a MS-60. A MS-60 is NOT a pretty coin. It will have major
scratches and marks and hits, especially and PARTICUARLLY if it's a heavy coin
such as a silver dollar. It would be unrealistic to ask for one without
scratches, as even a MS-65, about 4 or 5X the price or som there will still be
scratches, just not as many or as deep.It'll be prettier, though, so if the
dealer is willing see if he'll sell you a common date Morgan Dollar, certified
by PCGS or NGC in MS-65, for about $125 or so. You'll be much happier!

Ira

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by nob.. » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:04:18



Quote:
>I am a long time dealer, a regular on this forum. A coin described as BU will
>generally be a MS-60. A MS-60 is NOT a pretty coin. It will have major
>scratches and marks and hits, especially and PARTICUARLLY if it's a heavy coin
>such as a silver dollar. It would be unrealistic to ask for one without
>scratches, as even a MS-65, about 4 or 5X the price or som there will still be
>scratches, just not as many or as deep.It'll be prettier, though, so if the
>dealer is willing see if he'll sell you a common date Morgan Dollar, certified
>by PCGS or NGC in MS-65, for about $125 or so. You'll be much happier!

>Ira

First of all, I erred in saying I paid $29 each; I paid in fact,
$29+shipping  for the 2 BU dollars!

So let me ask this way: Are a 1921p Morgan and 23p Peace dollar worth
$15 each in" Brilliant Uncirculated" condition? Actually they ARE
pretty coins, just more scratches than I expected for a "BU". Will
coins such as these go up in value, or would I be better off to return
them and buy, say, an MS64 '21 P Morgan for $55? Is $15 each a good
price for "BU" dollars of nonvaluable dates?

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Harv Lase » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:39:30



Quote:
> First of all, I erred in saying I paid $29 each; I paid in fact,
> $29+shipping  for the 2 BU dollars!

> So let me ask this way: Are a 1921p Morgan and 23p Peace dollar worth
> $15 each in" Brilliant Uncirculated" condition? Actually they ARE
> pretty coins, just more scratches than I expected for a "BU". Will
> coins such as these go up in value, or would I be better off to return
> them and buy, say, an MS64 '21 P Morgan for $55? Is $15 each a good
> price for "BU" dollars of nonvaluable dates?

This "BU" sounds like the "BU" used as advertising hype by those big dealers
who run huge ads in Coin World for raw coins.. I didn't follow this whole
thread, so I don't know what dealer you bought them from..

Their concept of "BU" and yours (and anyone else's with a brain) are
probably wildly different..

The 1921P Morgan and the 1923P Peace are both high mintage, common, and not
expensive to buy slabbed at the MS64 level.. at least a 1923P Peace in an
MS64 slab (I have one) can be had for about $35.00.. (which is about what I
paid for mine)..

$15.00 each would be a very good price for each if they would actually grade
MS64, which in all probability, they wouldn't.. if, as I said, you are
talking about the kind of "BU" coins that those big display ad dealers
sell..

Harv

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by BAJJERF » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:21:39


I think they were graded WSU for We Screwed U  get your money back
 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Ira Ste » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:37:36


<< First of all, I erred in saying I paid $29 each; I paid in fact,
$29+shipping  for the 2 BU dollars!

So let me ask this way: Are a 1921p Morgan and 23p Peace dollar worth
$15 each in" Brilliant Uncirculated" condition? Actually they ARE
pretty coins, just more scratches than I expected for a "BU". Will
coins such as these go up in value, or would I be better off to return
them and buy, say, an MS64 '21 P Morgan for $55? Is $15 each a good
price for "BU" dollars of nonvaluable dates?

 >>

Well, that's another story! At that price for TWO coins I believe I can say
with some degree of confidence that the coins are probably NOT BU! They're
likely AU at best, particularly if you bought from a dealer whose multipage ads
in the front  of Coin World or NN!

Return, them, and buy at least MS-64s from a more reputable dealer, as Harv
Laser also suggested.

Ira

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Stujo » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:58:13



Harv Laser spoke thusly...

Quote:



> > First of all, I erred in saying I paid $29 each; I paid in fact,
> > $29+shipping  for the 2 BU dollars!

> > So let me ask this way: Are a 1921p Morgan and 23p Peace dollar worth
> > $15 each in" Brilliant Uncirculated" condition? Actually they ARE
> > pretty coins, just more scratches than I expected for a "BU". Will
> > coins such as these go up in value, or would I be better off to return
> > them and buy, say, an MS64 '21 P Morgan for $55? Is $15 each a good
> > price for "BU" dollars of nonvaluable dates?

> This "BU" sounds like the "BU" used as advertising hype by those big dealers
> who run huge ads in Coin World for raw coins.. I didn't follow this whole
> thread, so I don't know what dealer you bought them from..

> Their concept of "BU" and yours (and anyone else's with a brain) are
> probably wildly different..

> The 1921P Morgan and the 1923P Peace are both high mintage, common, and not
> expensive to buy slabbed at the MS64 level.. at least a 1923P Peace in an
> MS64 slab (I have one) can be had for about $35.00.. (which is about what I
> paid for mine)..

> $15.00 each would be a very good price for each if they would actually grade
> MS64, which in all probability, they wouldn't.. if, as I said, you are
> talking about the kind of "BU" coins that those big display ad dealers
> sell..

I was thinking the same thing when he posted originally.

And those "scratches" just might be something more than just
scratches.

--
Stu Miller
ICQ:159336182 AIM:stujoe Yahoo:stujoe
The Stujoe Collection: http://www.thestujoecollection.com
RCC FAQ: http://www.telesphere.com/ts/coins/faq2.html

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by mar » Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:17:22


Quote:

>Coin World Almanac goes on to say that "choice" describes MS-63 coins,
>"gem" MS-65 coins, and "superb" or "superb gem" MS-67 coins. All this
>is nonsense, in my view. The numbering system, while imperfect, is a
>lot less confusing, and has a lot fewer openings for deception, that
>these adjectives.

But were not the adjectives in use before the 70 point number system was
adopted by the ANA?

What is worse is the multi-page advertisers who make-up their own adjectives;
e.g. The Coin Depot, who use
"choice borderline uncirculated* instead of "almost uncirculated"  AU-53 or
AU-55.  

Numismatic News' advertising policy states "The adjectival abbreviations and
numerical designations applied are required to conform to the consensus
interpretation of the industry accepted standards for the comparative
descriptions detailed in the "Official ANA Grading Standards for United States
Coins", unless it is specifically noted that other guidelines have been
invoked.

The Coin Depot's terms state:

"2. Grading by Photograde and best interpretation of market standards."

I doubt "borderline uncirculated" appears in Photograde, and calling that a
"market standard" is deceptive, at best, IMO.

--
mark
"the future will be a lot like now, only later."

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Frank Provase » Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:52:30


We got buy messages all the time on the Teletype wanting to
buy brilliant AU silver dollars (toned only if they will
"clean up") from the same dealers who advertise only Select Brilliant \
Uncirculated dollars in the coin papers....

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO MINIMUMS  http://frankcoins.com
Ebay Powerseller FRANKCOINS    Texas Auction License 11259
Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association, Fort Worth Coin Club.
Member: Texas Numismatic Assoc, American Numismatic Assoc.

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Bruce Hickmo » Thu, 01 Aug 2002 20:40:54



alleged to have written:

Quote:
>We got buy messages all the time on the Teletype wanting to
>buy brilliant AU silver dollars (toned only if they will
>"clean up") from the same dealers who advertise only Select Brilliant \
>Uncirculated dollars in the coin papers....

Interesting, but no real shock.  Part of the reason I collect AU's, rather than
Uncs.

Bruce

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Stujo » Thu, 01 Aug 2002 23:08:22



thusly...

Quote:

> alleged to have written:

> >We got buy messages all the time on the Teletype wanting to
> >buy brilliant AU silver dollars (toned only if they will
> >"clean up") from the same dealers who advertise only Select Brilliant \
> >Uncirculated dollars in the coin papers....

> Interesting, but no real shock.  Part of the reason I collect AU's, rather than
> Uncs.

A nice AU coin can be a real good "bang for the buck" coin. I have
very few high grade MS coins but I have a number of AU's that would
be high grade MS without that slight rub that you have to hold a
certain way just to see.

--
Stu Miller
ICQ:159336182 AIM:stujoe Yahoo:stujoe
The Stujoe Collection: http://www.thestujoecollection.com
RCC FAQ: http://www.telesphere.com/ts/coins/faq2.html

 
 
 

Brilliant Uncirculated with scratches?

Post by Mr. Ji » Fri, 02 Aug 2002 02:48:27


Quote:

> I think they were graded WSU for We Screwed U  get your money back

Thanks for all the replies! I think the consensus is that "BU" is more
like "FU" to the customer, and I should get my money back and buy
something in a slab from a reputable dealer. Now, here's the next
question:
Who's a reputable dealer? (any on ebay) And:
Why does it need to be a "reputable dealer" if it's slabbed and graded
with the 70 point system? Aren't they all the same if they're graded
the same? (more or less)