To slab or not to slab

To slab or not to slab

Post by Rkdi » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 03:00:19



I would really appreciate your opinions, if you don't mind. (Yes, yes,
I am quite green.)

I have a few coins, and I wonder whether I should bother sending them
to one of the coin grading services. In particular, what if I want to
sell them one day? Does it really make a big difference?

Here is a link to one of my coins; I'd love an opinion if anyone can
spare the time:

http://www.gis.net/~rkdia/index.html/gold1893FB.JPG

Thanks a lot!!

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Bob Flamini » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 03:16:39


Quote:

> I would really appreciate your opinions, if you don't mind. (Yes, yes,
> I am quite green.)

No worries; I've been collecting for 30 years, and I'm still green.

Quote:
> I have a few coins, and I wonder whether I should bother sending them
> to one of the coin grading services. In particular, what if I want to
> sell them one day? Does it really make a big difference?

You should send them in to be graded if having a coin in a slab gives
you a warm fuzzy, or if you intend to sell them. Otherwise, no need to
worry about it. If the intention is to sell them one day, wait until
that day comes to submit them. Services go in and out of favor, and you
don't want to be stuck holding an out-of-favor slab at sale time.

Quote:
> Here is a link to one of my coins; I'd love an opinion if anyone can
> spare the time:

> http://www.gis.net/~rkdia/index.html/gold1893FB.JPG

Gold's kind of a special case. There's so much counterfeit gold out
there, it's extra difficult to sell unslabbed gold (unless it's from an
established dealer).

-Bob

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Barry » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 03:46:23




Quote:

>> I would really appreciate your opinions, if you don't mind. (Yes, yes,
>> I am quite green.)

>No worries; I've been collecting for 30 years, and I'm still green.

>> I have a few coins, and I wonder whether I should bother sending them
>> to one of the coin grading services. In particular, what if I want to
>> sell them one day? Does it really make a big difference?

>You should send them in to be graded if having a coin in a slab gives
>you a warm fuzzy, or if you intend to sell them. Otherwise, no need to
>worry about it. If the intention is to sell them one day, wait until
>that day comes to submit them. Services go in and out of favor, and you
>don't want to be stuck holding an out-of-favor slab at sale time.

>> Here is a link to one of my coins; I'd love an opinion if anyone can
>> spare the time:

>> http://www.gis.net/~rkdia/index.html/gold1893FB.JPG

>Gold's kind of a special case. There's so much counterfeit gold out
>there, it's extra difficult to sell unslabbed gold (unless it's from an
>established dealer).

>-Bob

I was about to write the exact same thing as Bob did. I agree 100%
with him.
Barry
--
Note - Remove the X from my e-mail address for direct replies
 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by P.Nicho » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:56:29


I'm certainly no expert - just a rookie. But if I were in your
situation I would first get SOME idea of the grade of the coins you
want to sell. If you have no idea, you could find a friendly coin shop
or go to a coin club or ask around for a friend of a friend. Once you
have a ballpark grade, look them up in Coin World magazine or at
pcgs.com, to see what the price might be in that grade, and if a
slightly higher grade might mean it's worth a whole lot more... Then,
on those coins that might bring say $75 more if they are a grade
higher than you think, submit them for grading/slabbing...
I think, generally, if you put them on ebay and have good photos, the
coin will rise to it's true value, or close to it. You can also do a
SEARCH at ebay for "completed auctions" of the coins you are selling
and see what they've gone for, recently, in various grades...
Good luck! Let us know when you post them for sale.
 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by George » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:11:32


Quote:

> I would really appreciate your opinions, if you don't mind. (Yes, yes,
> I am quite green.)

> I have a few coins, and I wonder whether I should bother sending them
> to one of the coin grading services. In particular, what if I want to
> sell them one day? Does it really make a big difference?

> Here is a link to one of my coins; I'd love an opinion if anyone can
> spare the time:

> http://www.gis.net/~rkdia/index.html/gold1893FB.JPG

> Thanks a lot!!

Slabbing is a personal thing. If you like coins in slabs than find out which ones are worth the
extra money to be in slabs. I personally do not want slabs in my collection and have removed the
coins when adding them into my displays.

If you are concerned about rather they are authentic or not that is a different matter and I would
take the coins in doubt to a dealer if one is available for their opinion. If no dealer is around
where you live and the coin is one that has been known for counterfeiting than I might have it
slabbed to confirm that possibility.

If you are going to sell higher priced coins than slabbing makes some sense.
--
George D
Phoenix, AZ

 The reward for a good deed is to have done it.

Please use this address to mail me. Or remove the arizona in the link.
Remember there is no Arizona.

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Chri » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:45:42


There is little value in slabbing your coins until you are close to the
point of selling them. Grading services change over time, particularly with
respect to each other, so you increase your risks associated with such
changes by slabbing too early. But if you're close to selling, here's the
economics of slabbing:

Slabbing has positive value where a buyer significantly reduces his/her loss
if a coin turns out to be worth less than estimated, or a seller
significantly reduces his/her loss if a coin turns out to be worth more than
estimated. Since coin values increase (geometrically) with grade, this means
slabbing increases the certainty that the grade of the coin is as purported
by the other party. The formula for making this decision is as follows:
Value of Certification = [(Change in Value if Wrong) x (% Likelihood of
Being Wrong)] minus (All-In Cost of Certification)

Thus, slabbing is worth more to less knowledgeable buyers/sellers (such as
yourself). It is also worth more where "price curves are steep" (where one
or two grade points makes a large difference in the value of the coin).
Finally, the lower the slabbing costs the better; if you submit multiple
coins, you can get lower mailing/insurance/etc. costs. On this last point,
however, I absolutely do not mean that you should use the grading service
with the lowest fees. Some grading services (ACG, NTC, and PCI in
particular) have reputations for assigning very wrong grades very often;
whatever you might save on the Cost of Certification, you will likely give
up on the % Likelihood and Change in Value parts of the equation.

For the coin you pictured (I recall it was an 1893-P $10, roughly EF/AU.)
I'm not real knowledgeable in this series, which may help illustrate the
point--let's say I think there's a 50% chance it's really MS60, in which
case the change in value would only be about $25--a fairly "flat" price
curve. Applying the equation, the Value of Certification would be negative
$12.50: (50% times $25, less about $25 for slabbing, shipping and
insurance).

Hope this helps!
--Chris

Quote:

> I have a few coins, and I wonder whether I should bother sending them
> to one of the coin grading services. In particular, what if I want to
> sell them one day? Does it really make a big difference?

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Bob Flamini » Thu, 31 Oct 2002 02:30:36


Quote:

> The formula for
> making this decision is as follows: Value of Certification = [(Change
> in Value if Wrong) x (% Likelihood of Being Wrong)] minus (All-In
> Cost of Certification)

Wah! I didn't know there'd be *math*! Alan, make him stop!

-Bob

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Richard Harve » Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:18:43


Sometimes you can look at it from a totally different perspective. Many of
my coins have been sent to PCGS not to prepare them for sale, nor try to
"up" their grade, nor try to in any way make them more "attractive". But,
they are now kid-proof, wife-proof, and non-collector-proof. I can now hand
my most prized coins to any guest in my house without worry of educating
them on how to hold a coin. I no longer worry about the coins getting a
fingerprint, smudge, nick, scratch, or other blemish. To me, this peace of
mind entirely covered the cost of slabbing. If it's a pro that it comes back
with a higher grade or is then easier to sell, so much the better.

Rich

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Chri » Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:00:49


Agreed. I had omitted that thought because there are more economical, and
perhaps more effective, ways to protect coins (e.g., Intercept Shield,
Eagle). In cases where someone plans to sell someday, the efficiency of
slabbing once may outweigh the risk of changes in the slabbing market.
--Chris


Quote:
> Sometimes you can look at it from a totally different perspective. Many of
> my coins have been sent to PCGS not to prepare them for sale, nor try to
> "up" their grade, nor try to in any way make them more "attractive". But,
> they are now kid-proof, wife-proof, and non-collector-proof. I can now
hand
> my most prized coins to any guest in my house without worry of educating
> them on how to hold a coin. I no longer worry about the coins getting a
> fingerprint, smudge, nick, scratch, or other blemish. To me, this peace of
> mind entirely covered the cost of slabbing. If it's a pro that it comes
back
> with a higher grade or is then easier to sell, so much the better.

> Rich

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Rkdi » Fri, 01 Nov 2002 01:51:36


Wow! I can't believe the terrific feedback you've all given me. No
clear answer, but I guess I had better decide what I will ultimate be
doing - displaying in my home, selling, etc.

Thank you all very much!!

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by dave » Fri, 01 Nov 2002 14:10:34


I agree totally.

The grade of your coins can only go down with time, never up.

So seal them up ASAP and get the grade stamp on them right away.  Regardless
of what people say, PCGS is always going to be a respected grader.  They are
a huge public company and can only survive if they do not get into
overgrading...

Dave


Quote:
> Sometimes you can look at it from a totally different perspective. Many of
> my coins have been sent to PCGS not to prepare them for sale, nor try to
> "up" their grade, nor try to in any way make them more "attractive". But,
> they are now kid-proof, wife-proof, and non-collector-proof. I can now
hand
> my most prized coins to any guest in my house without worry of educating
> them on how to hold a coin. I no longer worry about the coins getting a
> fingerprint, smudge, nick, scratch, or other blemish. To me, this peace of
> mind entirely covered the cost of slabbing. If it's a pro that it comes
back
> with a higher grade or is then easier to sell, so much the better.

> Rich

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Bob Flamini » Sat, 02 Nov 2002 00:20:55


Quote:

> So seal them up ASAP and get the grade stamp on them right away.
> Regardless of what people say, PCGS is always going to be a respected
> grader.  They are a huge public company and can only survive if they
> do not get into overgrading...

Have you *seen* Collector's Universe's stock price lately? They actually
just got a letter from the NASDAQ saying shape up quick or prepare to be
delisted. The usual course of action in such circumstances is a reverse
stock split. I can't remember a company that did a reverse split and
survived another five years. Usually what happens is that the company
gets so cheap, someone else comes in and buys it out. Now, just imagine
if that other company happened to be ... Accugrade? What would happen to
the value and credibility of PCGS-slabbed coins then, especially if they
made no changes to the slab design?

PCGS, being part of a public company, is actually on somewhat shakier
ground than the other, privately held services.

-Bob

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Ken Bar » Sat, 02 Nov 2002 03:31:33



Quote:


> > So seal them up ASAP and get the grade stamp on them right away.
> > Regardless of what people say, PCGS is always going to be a respected
> > grader.  They are a huge public company and can only survive if they
> > do not get into overgrading...

> Have you *seen* Collector's Universe's stock price lately? They actually
> just got a letter from the NASDAQ saying shape up quick or prepare to be
> delisted. The usual course of action in such circumstances is a reverse
> stock split. I can't remember a company that did a reverse split and
> survived another five years. Usually what happens is that the company
> gets so cheap, someone else comes in and buys it out. Now, just imagine
> if that other company happened to be ... Accugrade? What would happen to
> the value and credibility of PCGS-slabbed coins then, especially if they
> made no changes to the slab design?

And in fact they have already placed an authorization for a reverse
split on the agenda for the annual meeting in December ...

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021024/lath113_1.html

A hostile takeover is unlikely given the percentage of insider
ownership versus only 10% institutional ownership (18% of the
float).  But David Hall has been increasing his sales lately,
the latest (September) being half a million shares at 74c,
apparently WITHOUT an Intent To Sell declaration having been
filed with the SEC prior to the sale ... hmmmmmmmmmm.

--

P. O. Box 32541                 website:  http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152          (souvenir cards, MPC, Hickey Bros tokens)
408-272-3247              Next show:  Sacramento 11/02 (tent., no table)
 ADVANCED NOTICE:  ANA World's Fair of Money, San Jose, CA 7/27-31/2005

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by dave » Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:38:51


I didn't know this.  Cripes your what-if scenario is scary!

If PCGS and NCG take a dive what is to become of the rare coin industry....

This does not bode well for our hobby.

Dave


Quote:

> > So seal them up ASAP and get the grade stamp on them right away.
> > Regardless of what people say, PCGS is always going to be a respected
> > grader.  They are a huge public company and can only survive if they
> > do not get into overgrading...

> Have you *seen* Collector's Universe's stock price lately? They actually
> just got a letter from the NASDAQ saying shape up quick or prepare to be
> delisted. The usual course of action in such circumstances is a reverse
> stock split. I can't remember a company that did a reverse split and
> survived another five years. Usually what happens is that the company
> gets so cheap, someone else comes in and buys it out. Now, just imagine
> if that other company happened to be ... Accugrade? What would happen to
> the value and credibility of PCGS-slabbed coins then, especially if they
> made no changes to the slab design?

> PCGS, being part of a public company, is actually on somewhat shakier
> ground than the other, privately held services.

> -Bob

 
 
 

To slab or not to slab

Post by Crownline » Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:15:41


even if pcgs goes down hill in standards, the old slabs will carrry a
premium based on the past stricter standars.  this is how it is now and
people can tell new slabs from old by the holograms, numbering etc.

the good coins will still bring the good money whether pcgs goes south or
not.  and the better slabs will still be bringing premiums based the coins
in them just like they do now.

people won't pay pcgs money for acugrade, and they won't pay old pcgs money
for new pcgs if the standards collapse.

i say the downside to slabbing is much less than the downside to not for the
average owner, collector, seller, trader or investor.  people who dislike
slabbing will always have raw coins and will always be able to intimidate
novice owners into selling too cheap because they will be unsure of their
convictions and will give in faced with what they consider to be higher
authority.

crownliner


Quote:
> I didn't know this.  Cripes your what-if scenario is scary!

> If PCGS and NCG take a dive what is to become of the rare coin
industry....

> This does not bode well for our hobby.

> Dave




> > > So seal them up ASAP and get the grade stamp on them right away.
> > > Regardless of what people say, PCGS is always going to be a respected
> > > grader.  They are a huge public company and can only survive if they
> > > do not get into overgrading...

> > Have you *seen* Collector's Universe's stock price lately? They actually
> > just got a letter from the NASDAQ saying shape up quick or prepare to be
> > delisted. The usual course of action in such circumstances is a reverse
> > stock split. I can't remember a company that did a reverse split and
> > survived another five years. Usually what happens is that the company
> > gets so cheap, someone else comes in and buys it out. Now, just imagine
> > if that other company happened to be ... Accugrade? What would happen to
> > the value and credibility of PCGS-slabbed coins then, especially if they
> > made no changes to the slab design?

> > PCGS, being part of a public company, is actually on somewhat shakier
> > ground than the other, privately held services.

> > -Bob