Should I make a starter?

Should I make a starter?

Post by micha » Sun, 01 Feb 2009 21:36:12



Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
a month, due to delivery company delays.

Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
cells and I will eventually be overpitching.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

M.

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by Tom Bias » Sun, 01 Feb 2009 22:41:50



Quote:
> Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for a
> month, due to delivery company delays.

> Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand, if
> the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast cells
> and I will eventually be overpitching.

> Any ideas?

> Thanks,

> M.

Make the starter. The possibility of you over-pitching is extremely low.
Tom

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by John Krehbie » Sun, 01 Feb 2009 22:45:51



Quote:


> > Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for a
> > month, due to delivery company delays.

> > Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> > make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand, if
> > the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast cells
> > and I will eventually be overpitching.

> > Any ideas?

> > Thanks,

> > M.

> Make the starter. The possibility of you over-pitching is extremely low.
> Tom

In fact, pitching straight from the vial is likely underpitching.

John K

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by hanku » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 00:41:39


12 years of brewing has taught me to  1)ALWAYS make a starter to build up
the count to offset any sanitation probs and to check the flavor of saved
yeast and 2) aerate the wort well...takes care of 90% of probs

--
Thanks
Hank


Quote:


> > Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
> > a
> > month, due to delivery company delays.

> > Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> > make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
> > if
> > the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
> > cells
> > and I will eventually be overpitching.

> > Any ideas?

> > Thanks,

> > M.

> Make the starter. The possibility of you over-pitching is extremely low.
> Tom

In fact, pitching straight from the vial is likely underpitching.

John K

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by doggl.. » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 00:44:06



Quote:
> Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
> a month, due to delivery company delays.

> Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
> if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
> cells and I will eventually be overpitching.

I wouldn't use any liquid yeast that's been at room temperature that
long.  A starter would tell you if there's anything left of it.

Phil

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salt » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 06:35:25


Quote:

> Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
> a month, due to delivery company delays.

> Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
> if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
> cells and I will eventually be overpitching.

> Any ideas?

The answer to your quesion is almost always "yes" when you're talking
about liquid yeast cultures, regardless of the condition of the tube.
You will not overpitch by making a starter.

--
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Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

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Buy several copies today!

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by sjdevn.. » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:41:01


On Jan 31, 4:35 pm, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty

Quote:


> > Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
> > a month, due to delivery company delays.

> > Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> > make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
> > if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
> > cells and I will eventually be overpitching.

> > Any ideas?

> The answer to your quesion is almost always "yes" when you're talking
> about liquid yeast cultures, regardless of the condition of the tube.
> You will not overpitch by making a starter.

I'm doing my first ever (extract) brew next weekend.  I have a Wyeast
large-size smack pack that I thought was okay to pitch directly if I
activate it 24+ hours ahead of time (.Wyeast #1762 Belgian Abbey II).
It shipped w/ no ice (5 days or so from Northern Brewer to me)

Should I:
a) Just do that, and delay brew-day to get new yeast if it fails to
activate
b) steal 1/2 c. of DME from the kit's fermentables to make a starter
with--I assume this is a bad idea
c) make a special trip to get extra DME to do a starter with
d) other?

(c) would be a pain.  The OG of this beer is 1084.  Fermentables are 6
lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup, 2 lb. Pilsen DME, 2 lb brown belgian candi
sugar, 15 oz corn sugar (with a bit of caramunich grain to steep too,
1.5 lbs)

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by John Krehbie » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 10:38:19



Quote:
> On Jan 31, 4:35 pm, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty



> > > Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
> > > a month, due to delivery company delays.

> > > Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> > > make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
> > > if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
> > > cells and I will eventually be overpitching.

> > > Any ideas?

> > The answer to your quesion is almost always "yes" when you're talking
> > about liquid yeast cultures, regardless of the condition of the tube.
> > You will not overpitch by making a starter.

> I'm doing my first ever (extract) brew next weekend. ?I have a Wyeast
> large-size smack pack that I thought was okay to pitch directly if I
> activate it 24+ hours ahead of time (.Wyeast #1762 Belgian Abbey II).
> It shipped w/ no ice (5 days or so from Northern Brewer to me)

> Should I:
> a) Just do that, and delay brew-day to get new yeast if it fails to
> activate
> b) steal 1/2 c. of DME from the kit's fermentables to make a starter
> with--I assume this is a bad idea
> c) make a special trip to get extra DME to do a starter with
> d) other?

> (c) would be a pain. ?The OG of this beer is 1084. ?Fermentables are 6
> lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup, 2 lb. Pilsen DME, 2 lb brown belgian candi
> sugar, 15 oz corn sugar (with a bit of caramunich grain to steep too,
> 1.5 lbs)

Although you would be better off with a starter, if it was me, I'd be
sure the smack pack was well swollen (I usually give them 2-3 days)
and that the wort was very well aerated.

You're better off with a starter, but it should work out fine
considering that making a starter would be such a PITA at this point.
I've started many brews with a swollen smack pack pitched directly.

Just be very careful about sanitation and aeration, don't be too
distressed if the lag time is a day or so and plan ahead for a starter
next time,.

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salt » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:41:32


Quote:

> On Jan 31, 4:35 pm, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty


>>> Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
>>> a month, due to delivery company delays.
>>> Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
>>> make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
>>> if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
>>> cells and I will eventually be overpitching.
>>> Any ideas?
>> The answer to your quesion is almost always "yes" when you're talking
>> about liquid yeast cultures, regardless of the condition of the tube.
>> You will not overpitch by making a starter.

> I'm doing my first ever (extract) brew next weekend.  I have a Wyeast
> large-size smack pack that I thought was okay to pitch directly if I
> activate it 24+ hours ahead of time (.Wyeast #1762 Belgian Abbey II).
> It shipped w/ no ice (5 days or so from Northern Brewer to me)

> Should I:
> a) Just do that, and delay brew-day to get new yeast if it fails to
> activate
> b) steal 1/2 c. of DME from the kit's fermentables to make a starter
> with--I assume this is a bad idea
> c) make a special trip to get extra DME to do a starter with
> d) other?

> (c) would be a pain.  The OG of this beer is 1084.  Fermentables are 6
> lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup, 2 lb. Pilsen DME, 2 lb brown belgian candi
> sugar, 15 oz corn sugar (with a bit of caramunich grain to steep too,
> 1.5 lbs)

Honestly, 1.084 is way to big for single smack pack -- even a Belgian.

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by sjdevn.. » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:11:27


On Jan 31, 11:41?pm, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty

Quote:


> > On Jan 31, 4:35 pm, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty


> >>> Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
> >>> a month, due to delivery company delays.
> >>> Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> >>> make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
> >>> if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
> >>> cells and I will eventually be overpitching.
> >>> Any ideas?
> >> The answer to your quesion is almost always "yes" when you're talking
> >> about liquid yeast cultures, regardless of the condition of the tube.
> >> You will not overpitch by making a starter.

> > I'm doing my first ever (extract) brew next weekend. ?I have a Wyeast
> > large-size smack pack that I thought was okay to pitch directly if I
> > activate it 24+ hours ahead of time (.Wyeast #1762 Belgian Abbey II).
> > It shipped w/ no ice (5 days or so from Northern Brewer to me)

> > Should I:
> > a) Just do that, and delay brew-day to get new yeast if it fails to
> > activate
> > b) steal 1/2 c. of DME from the kit's fermentables to make a starter
> > with--I assume this is a bad idea
> > c) make a special trip to get extra DME to do a starter with
> > d) other?

> > (c) would be a pain. ?The OG of this beer is 1084. ?Fermentables are 6
> > lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup, 2 lb. Pilsen DME, 2 lb brown belgian candi
> > sugar, 15 oz corn sugar (with a bit of caramunich grain to steep too,
> > 1.5 lbs)

> Honestly, 1.084 is way to big for single smack pack -- even a Belgian.

I don't have extra DME, but I do have extra pale LME.  Would that be
acceptable for a starter?  If so, what's the procedure and what's the
best way to store the remainder of the can once it's opened (I plan on
the next brew 2-3 weeks later)?  Sanitize a jar + cap, transfer LME,
refrigerate?
 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by sjdevn.. » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:30:45



Quote:
> On Jan 31, 11:41?pm, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty



> > > On Jan 31, 4:35 pm, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty


> > >>> Hi folks, I 've got some White Labs yeast that's been off the fridge for
> > >>> a month, due to delivery company delays.
> > >>> Now I'm about to brew a Heffeweizen, but I'm wondering whether I should
> > >>> make a starter first, just to make sure that its ok. On the other hand,
> > >>> if the yeast is ok, making a starter will probably spawn too many yeast
> > >>> cells and I will eventually be overpitching.
> > >>> Any ideas?
> > >> The answer to your quesion is almost always "yes" when you're talking
> > >> about liquid yeast cultures, regardless of the condition of the tube.
> > >> You will not overpitch by making a starter.

> > > I'm doing my first ever (extract) brew next weekend. ?I have a Wyeast
> > > large-size smack pack that I thought was okay to pitch directly if I
> > > activate it 24+ hours ahead of time (.Wyeast #1762 Belgian Abbey II).
> > > It shipped w/ no ice (5 days or so from Northern Brewer to me)

> > > Should I:
> > > a) Just do that, and delay brew-day to get new yeast if it fails to
> > > activate
> > > b) steal 1/2 c. of DME from the kit's fermentables to make a starter
> > > with--I assume this is a bad idea
> > > c) make a special trip to get extra DME to do a starter with
> > > d) other?

> > > (c) would be a pain. ?The OG of this beer is 1084. ?Fermentables are 6
> > > lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup, 2 lb. Pilsen DME, 2 lb brown belgian candi
> > > sugar, 15 oz corn sugar (with a bit of caramunich grain to steep too,
> > > 1.5 lbs)

> > Honestly, 1.084 is way to big for single smack pack -- even a Belgian.

> I don't have extra DME, but I do have extra pale LME. ?Would that be
> acceptable for a starter? ?If so, what's the procedure and what's the
> best way to store the remainder of the can once it's opened (I plan on
> the next brew 2-3 weeks later)? ?Sanitize a jar + cap, transfer LME,
> refrigerate?

"What's the procedure" is the wrong question, I guess--what's the
amount of LME to use in place of DME (if it works)?  I'm using John
Palmer's How to Brew guide which recommends 1/2 c. DME.
 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by Steve Bonin » Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:48:30


Quote:

> "What's the procedure" is the wrong question, I guess--what's the
> amount of LME to use in place of DME (if it works)?  I'm using John
> Palmer's How to Brew guide which recommends 1/2 c. DME.

What I would do is use my hydrometer to determine how much LME I need to
produce a starter of approximately the same SG as the beer I'm going to
pitch it into.  Close counts.  Then I boil the solution in the container
that I'll use for the starter, enough to sanitize.  Let it cool, add the
yeast, and put a sanitized bubbler on it.
 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salt » Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:37:19


Quote:


>> "What's the procedure" is the wrong question, I guess--what's the
>> amount of LME to use in place of DME (if it works)?  I'm using John
>> Palmer's How to Brew guide which recommends 1/2 c. DME.

> What I would do is use my hydrometer to determine how much LME I need to
> produce a starter of approximately the same SG as the beer I'm going to
> pitch it into.  Close counts.  Then I boil the solution in the container
> that I'll use for the starter, enough to sanitize.  Let it cool, add the
> yeast, and put a sanitized bubbler on it.

This beer has a starting gravity of 1.087, which is way too high for
starter. You really want to keep starters below 1.040. LME gives you
around 37 points per pound per gallon -- so a pound in one gallon should
yield a wort of around 1.036 (which is a good starter gravity). Work
backward from there to get your desired starter volume.

Personally, for a 1.087 belgian at 5 gallons I'd use at least a 2 liter
starter.

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by sjdevn.. » Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:14:40


On Feb 1, 10:37?am, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty

Quote:



> >> "What's the procedure" is the wrong question, I guess--what's the
> >> amount of LME to use in place of DME (if it works)? ?I'm using John
> >> Palmer's How to Brew guide which recommends 1/2 c. DME.

> > What I would do is use my hydrometer to determine how much LME I need to
> > produce a starter of approximately the same SG as the beer I'm going to
> > pitch it into. ?Close counts. ?Then I boil the solution in the container
> > that I'll use for the starter, enough to sanitize. ?Let it cool, add the
> > yeast, and put a sanitized bubbler on it.

> This beer has a starting gravity of 1.087, which is way too high for
> starter. You really want to keep starters below 1.040. LME gives you
> around 37 points per pound per gallon -- so a pound in one gallon should
> yield a wort of around 1.036 (which is a good starter gravity). Work
> backward from there to get your desired starter volume.

> Personally, for a 1.087 belgian at 5 gallons I'd use at least a 2 liter
> starter.

Thanks, knowing the OG for the starter is a critical piece of info--
that should give me what I need!
 
 
 

Should I make a starter?

Post by Steve Bonin » Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:46:00



Quote:
> This beer has a starting gravity of 1.087, which is way too high for
> starter. You really want to keep starters below 1.040.

Why?