Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by Svein Olav Myttin » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00



I have recently gotten into the lazy habit of brewing on the same day I rack
my last brew from primary to secondary. That way I can dump the new wort
right onto the yeast cake of the last batch, and I get a great quick
fermentation start with no additional work needed at all.

I know one should still pitch fresh yeast after a few generations. However,
I worry about the very practice of using the yeast cake. I see three
problems with it:

- The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to clean
it out a bit. Trub is bad.
- I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.
- Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this practice
gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to problems
(according to Noonan).

What do you think?

--
Regards,
Svein Olav Mytting
Oslo

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by Dan Listerman » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00


I have been known to do this quite a bit.  I stop after the second redump.
The one time I tried to strech it five times,I got bit hard.

--
 Dan Listermann

Check out our new E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!



Quote:
> I have recently gotten into the lazy habit of brewing on the same day I
rack
> my last brew from primary to secondary. That way I can dump the new wort
> right onto the yeast cake of the last batch, and I get a great quick
> fermentation start with no additional work needed at all.

> I know one should still pitch fresh yeast after a few generations.
However,
> I worry about the very practice of using the yeast cake. I see three
> problems with it:

> - The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to
clean
> it out a bit. Trub is bad.
> - I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.
> - Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this practice
> gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to
problems
> (according to Noonan).

> What do you think?

> --
> Regards,
> Svein Olav Mytting
> Oslo


 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by C. Eric Nasta » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00




Quote:

> - The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to
clean
> it out a bit. Trub is bad.
> - I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.

  If you somehow had a very small, undetected infection which the yeast
out-competedin the initial batch, yet still left a small population in your
fermenter; I suppose not sanitizing could be a problem.
  It could give that bacteria a chance to grow a bit more while the yeast
population really gets going.
  What you are doing (pouring new wort onto just-used trub) is probably
better than dumping the trub into a container and refrigerating it, though.

  Eric N.

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by Mike Uchim » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> I have recently gotten into the lazy habit of brewing on the same day I rack
> my last brew from primary to secondary. That way I can dump the new wort
> right onto the yeast cake of the last batch, and I get a great quick
> fermentation start with no additional work needed at all.

> I know one should still pitch fresh yeast after a few generations. However,
> I worry about the very practice of using the yeast cake. I see three
> problems with it:

> - The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to clean
> it out a bit. Trub is bad.

If there's a lot of trub, you can clean it up by dumping the sediment
into a flask of boiled, cooled water.  Swirl it around, then let it sit
for a few minutes.  The trub will mostly settle out, and you can decant
the water (with suspended yeast).

Quote:
> - I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.

Yeah... but assuming your sanitation on the first batch was good, this
shouldn't be too much of a concern -- if it has been covered, it really
ought to be about as sanitary as it was when the first batch went in.
However, some batches make a total mess of the fermenter, with crud
stuck all over the place; in cases like this, I will use a clean
fermenter (and pitch by transfering some of the sediment from the old
one), instead of simply racking onto the dregs.

Quote:
> - Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this practice
> gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to problems
> (according to Noonan).

You can always dump some of the dregs out first.  Or only transfer
*some* of the dregs, if you are using a clean fermenter.

Quote:
> What do you think?

> --
> Regards,
> Svein Olav Mytting
> Oslo

--

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by D. Basset » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00


I've done this with good success and believe that you actual produce less
off flavors this way, even if you dump right onto trub.  I try to "step up"
from lighter beers to darker ones and from low gravity to higher gravity so
that I don't introduce inappropriate flavors that may leach through from the
trub.

I believe intuitively but do not have a factual basis that the yeast may
tend to mutate or something like that after 3 batches or so given typical
homebrew santitation.

The best thing is that fermentation takes off like a rocket.  I repitched
the other day and it was completely fermented out in less than 24 hours.

Dave



Quote:
> I have recently gotten into the lazy habit of brewing on the same day I
rack
> my last brew from primary to secondary. That way I can dump the new wort
> right onto the yeast cake of the last batch, and I get a great quick
> fermentation start with no additional work needed at all.

> I know one should still pitch fresh yeast after a few generations.
However,
> I worry about the very practice of using the yeast cake. I see three
> problems with it:

> - The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to
clean
> it out a bit. Trub is bad.
> - I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.
> - Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this practice
> gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to
problems
> (according to Noonan).

> What do you think?

> --
> Regards,
> Svein Olav Mytting
> Oslo

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by k.vantimme.. » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00


On Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:13:02 GMT, "Svein Olav Mytting"

Quote:

>I have recently gotten into the lazy habit of brewing on the same day I rack
>my last brew from primary to secondary. That way I can dump the new wort
>right onto the yeast cake of the last batch, and I get a great quick
>fermentation start with no additional work needed at all.

>I know one should still pitch fresh yeast after a few generations. However,
>I worry about the very practice of using the yeast cake. I see three
>problems with it:

>- The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to clean
>it out a bit. Trub is bad.
>- I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.
>- Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this practice
>gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to problems
>(according to Noonan).

>What do you think?

I think I do this regularly.  Don't worry about trub and stuff just
dump the new wort on the cake and get on with it.  I have only gone as
far as 3 generations, i.e. original plus two dumps.  Just make sure
your sanitation is good on the first batch.  I think attempting to
clean some of the trub out is a waste of time.  You could be drinking
home brew and watching the airlock.  What fun.

You're making beer not sterile pharmaceuticals.  :)

kent

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by theDud » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00


Never had a problem. Have done it several, several times. Like someone
else said, I plan the batches in advance so I won't introduce and
inappropriate flavor. For instance, on two occasions I've made a light
wheat beer (hepheweizen) and then a fruit wheat beer, like rasberry.
Obviously you would want to do the fruit one second.

It seems to me the second beer, like someone else said, tends to have
less off flavors thanks to the quick start of the fermentation, but it
could be my imagination. Generally, I have a hearty krausen and full
roll in four-six hours.... It's a thing of beauty. WARNING: I think if
you weren't prepared for blow off this quick start could be messy!


Quote:

> On Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:13:02 GMT, "Svein Olav Mytting"

> >I have recently gotten into the lazy habit of brewing on the same
day I rack
> >my last brew from primary to secondary. That way I can dump the new
wort
> >right onto the yeast cake of the last batch, and I get a great quick
> >fermentation start with no additional work needed at all.

> >I know one should still pitch fresh yeast after a few generations.
However,
> >I worry about the very practice of using the yeast cake. I see three
> >problems with it:

> >- The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try
to clean
> >it out a bit. Trub is bad.
> >- I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.
> >- Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this
practice
> >gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to
problems
> >(according to Noonan).

> >What do you think?

> I think I do this regularly.  Don't worry about trub and stuff just
> dump the new wort on the cake and get on with it.  I have only gone as
> far as 3 generations, i.e. original plus two dumps.  Just make sure
> your sanitation is good on the first batch.  I think attempting to
> clean some of the trub out is a waste of time.  You could be drinking
> home brew and watching the airlock.  What fun.

> You're making beer not sterile pharmaceuticals.  :)

> kent

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Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by breg.. » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00




snip

Quote:
> It seems to me the second beer, like someone else said, tends to have
> less off flavors thanks to the quick start of the fermentation, but it
> could be my imagination.

Probably not your imagination. Yeast produce lots of byproducts during
lag and growth phase. These phases are greatly minimized when you pitch
a large slurry.

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Before you buy.

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by Paul Nightingal » Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:00:00


This is where conical fermentors come in handy.
Quote:

> I have recently gotten into the lazy habit of brewing on the same day I rack
> my last brew from primary to secondary. That way I can dump the new wort
> right onto the yeast cake of the last batch, and I get a great quick
> fermentation start with no additional work needed at all.

> I know one should still pitch fresh yeast after a few generations. However,
> I worry about the very practice of using the yeast cake. I see three
> problems with it:

> - The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to clean
> it out a bit. Trub is bad.
> - I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.
> - Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this practice
> gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to problems
> (according to Noonan).

> What do you think?

> --
> Regards,
> Svein Olav Mytting
> Oslo

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by JLHeub » Thu, 07 Dec 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
>I see three
>problems with it:

>- The yeast is intermixed with huge amounts of trub, although I try to clean
>it out a bit. Trub is bad.
>- I don't get to sanitize the fermenter.
>- Isn't there actually a risk of overpitching? I worry that this practice
>gives more yeast cells than recommended, something that can lead to problems
>(according to Noonan).

>What do you think?

When I do this, my method requires a second primary fermenter of appropriate
volume.  I'll pitch the fresh wort onto the yeast cake, oxygenate, and then let
it sit til I see the kraeusen "cap" forming. I then rack the wort to the other
primary fermenter.  This gets the new beer off the old trub and I find makes
for a cleaner ferment.  I've gone six pitching using this method, but stopped
as I was getting bored with that yeast and wanted something different.  

John Heubel

Trying to prevent spammers on this new account.  Please remove the obvious.

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by Ian » Thu, 07 Dec 2000 04:00:00


I'm not sure where I got the idea, but for some reason I thought you should
only use yeast from the primary. I have a batch in the secondary right now
with a yeast I would like to re-use. I thought I had missed the boat by not
catching it after primary fermentation. So there's no problem dumping it on
the secondary yeast cake after a 4 week secondary fermentation? Can I expect
the same fast start?

Thanks

Ian

Quote:
> This works great for yeast from the secondary, which is more trub-free.

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by Mike Uchim » Thu, 07 Dec 2000 04:00:00


Yeast from the secondary will work, but you won't get the fast start you
get when using the primary yeast.  There is less yeast present, and what
yeast is there has mostly "gone to sleep".

--

Quote:

> I'm not sure where I got the idea, but for some reason I thought you should
> only use yeast from the primary. I have a batch in the secondary right now
> with a yeast I would like to re-use. I thought I had missed the boat by not
> catching it after primary fermentation. So there's no problem dumping it on
> the secondary yeast cake after a 4 week secondary fermentation? Can I expect
> the same fast start?

> Thanks

> Ian

> > This works great for yeast from the secondary, which is more trub-free.

 
 
 

Dumping new wort on old yeast cake

Post by Eddie Vanderzeeu » Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:49:38


Hi guy's

This method, dumping the fresh wort onto the secondary yeast cake, is how wort was
traditionally inoculated. Traditionally means from the start of written history.
If sanitation is kept to a high level, this method can be used a dozen or more
times without ill effect.

Eddie V.

Quote:

> x-no-archive: yes


> > I've done this with good success and believe that you actual produce less
> > off flavors this way, even if you dump right onto trub.  I try to "step up"
> > from lighter beers to darker ones and from low gravity to higher gravity so
> > that I don't introduce inappropriate flavors that may leach through from the
> > trub.

> > I believe intuitively but do not have a factual basis that the yeast may
> > tend to mutate or something like that after 3 batches or so given typical
> > homebrew santitation.

> > The best thing is that fermentation takes off like a rocket.  I repitched
> > the other day and it was completely fermented out in less than 24 hours.

> > Dave

> This works great for yeast from the secondary, which is more trub-free.