Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Richard Ga » Sun, 15 Oct 1995 04:00:00




writes:
 SNIP...

Quote:
>Near as I can tell from NARTS plans, competition modelers have been
peeling
>the outer layers from ESTES style tubing for some time, although it's
not
>clear whether that's been an advantage...

>BillW

  Tube peeling by competitors was very common many years ago. It
reduced the weight of the model by a fairly significant amount. It's
kind of a pain to do however and if not done carefully the tube can be
ruined. I think that and the availablity of CMR parts and later Apogee
parts have made the technique obsolete for competion. Your use of
peeling for cheap sport rocket tubes however is rather interesting.

Rick Gaff

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Lee Re » Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:00:00


[original post shortened...]

: I've mentioned (relatively recently) various sources of "found tubing" that
: can be used by the frugal to make model rockets, including the 38mm ID
: plastic bag cores from Safeway produce departments, and 3 inch ID tubing
: widely used as cores for all sorts of rolled paper and packaging products
: like plastic wrapping (shrink wrap?) used for tying together boxes on
: pallets and such.  Several people have mentioned having access to the cores
: from plotter paper...

: Enter "tube peeling"!  Most of these tubes are spiral wound heavy craft
: paper.  The technique is interesting - think of a narrow strip of paper
: wound in a spiral on a rod WITHOUT overlapping.  Now apply some glue and
: wind another strip offset by some fraction of the width so that it covers
: the gap in the previous layer.  Repeat until the wall is as thick as you
: want.  Since the seams don't show up in the same place, the tube is nearly
: as strong as a parallel wound tube.

Since the tube is going to be pretty rough, and you may have weakened it
considerably, try fiberglassing the final "product".  This will make the
tube smooth and tough, too.  An HPR from last year (maybe June '94?) has
article on do-it-yourself fiberglassing techniques.  My only issue
with article is using spray adhesive for first layer -- way too difficult
to lay down smoothly.  Just wear gloves and play with the cloth until
it lays down smoothly.

--
Lee Reep


 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Willia » Tue, 17 Oct 1995 04:00:00


    : Enter "tube peeling"!  Most of these tubes are spiral wound heavy craft

    Since the tube is going to be pretty rough, and you may have weakened it
    considerably, try fiberglassing the final "product".

One of the interesting characteristics is that the peeled tube is not
significantly rougher than the original.  (remember, it started out
"found" with no glasine (sp?) coating like estes tubes.)

Um, fiberglassing a peeled, found, tube seems sort of like putting a $3000
paint job ona $500 car.  If it needs to be stronger, you shouldn't've peeled
it in the first place.  If you're going to invest a lot of time and trouble
in the model, it might pay to buy higher quality commercial parts in the
first place.  Peeling a tube is stort of like chopping meat with a cleaver
or kneading bread - nice theraputic destructive actions with a constructive
result.  Fiberglassing a tube is hard work.

BillW

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Robert C. Santo » Tue, 17 Oct 1995 04:00:00


Quote:


>: Since the tube is going to be pretty rough, and you may have weakened it
>: considerably, try fiberglassing the final "product".  This will make the
>: tube smooth and tough, too.  An HPR from last year (maybe June '94?) has
<snip>

>I just finished my first fiberglassing project using the techniques from
>this article. I 'beefed-up' a Vaughn Bros. ASP (it uses Estes BT55
>tubing) to accept 29mm motors. I put one layer of 0.75oz cloth on the
>tubes and used the spray adhesive first followed by 20min finish epoxy.
>Sanded this smooth, cut the fin slots, put another layer of cloth over
<Snip>
>William

If you cut the fin slots first, you will find that it is very easy to cut
through the epoxy/cloth where it lies over the slots.  Just poke the point
of a sharp hobby knife in along an edge of the slot and follow the edge.  
I've done it both ways and cutting the slots first is the way to go.

I also strongly recommend glassing before adding fins and launch lugs if
you want a smooth finish and are not trying to beef up the fin attachment
(learned this the hard way while rebuilding the victim of an AT delay
that was just a little on the long side).  It is not so much that it is
hard to lay the cloth around the fins, but sanding the spaces between the
fins makes the job about 10 times more difficult.

I have to agree that several thin coats of finishing resin is hard to
beat for a smooth tough surface.  I always end up with a couple runs,
however, and they are the***ens to sand out without creating flat
spots.  

Bob Santore

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Buzz McDermo » Thu, 19 Oct 1995 04:00:00



Quote:

>    : Enter "tube peeling"!  Most of these tubes are spiral wound heavy craft

>    Since the tube is going to be pretty rough, and you may have weakened it
>    considerably, try fiberglassing the final "product".

>Um, fiberglassing a peeled, found, tube seems sort of like putting a $3000
>paint job ona $500 car.  If it needs to be stronger, you shouldn't've peeled
>it in the first place.  If you're going to invest a lot of time and trouble
>in the model, it might pay to buy higher quality commercial parts in the
>first place.  Peeling a tube is stort of like chopping meat with a cleaver
>or kneading bread - nice theraputic destructive actions with a constructive
>result.  Fiberglassing a tube is hard work.

I disagree that fiberglassing a tube is necessarilly hard work. I now glass
everything from BT-60 sized and up. I use 3/4oz cloth on the 2.56 and smaller
rockets that will be no more than G powered. 2oz on everything bigger. The time
someone else spends filling seams and sanding I spend cutting out glass cloth
and epoxying.

Buzz McDermott
Dallas, Texas

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by DABH » Sat, 21 Oct 1995 04:00:00


I have to agree with Buzz - I now glass everything from Estes to my larger
HPR models. And also basically the same way:

3/4 oz. for Estes-type model rockets (especially good for reinforcing
1/16" balsa fins - will FOLD without breaking!)

2 oz. for 2.5" up to 6" Body Tubes (with 6 oz. for fin reinforcements)

6 oz. for > 6" tubes, and for fin reinforcements.

Also, I agree with a prior post that glassing the tube with the slots
_already_ cut is easier, and always before fin placement. As for the
troubles mentioned about flat spots - got a NEATO new toy for just that
problem -

The Porter-Cable PROFILE Sander, with true in-line sanding; comes with a
range of shaped tips with Convex (for fillets!) tips ranging from 1/8" to
5/8" radius (radii?), Concave, for smoothing those body tubes, ranging
from 1/8" to 5/8" radius, and other angle tips from 0 to 90 degrees. Boy,
does it ever work! Also, since the tips are replaceable and can be
purchased separately, you could 1) buy the tips alone and use your hand
power and  2) SAND the concave tips for a larger radius, by sticking
sandpaper outward on the bodytube of choice and using the tip without
sandpaper (reverse sanding? ;^ ).

Oops! Got carried away. But a GREAT tool. Pricey (~$120.00) but NEAT. You
_could_ use it around the house, I guess.... But who has time?!

David

David A. Butcher
Sr. Global VSAT Support Engineer

AT&T Tridom                                             1-800-874-3666,
ext. 770
840 E. Franklin Court,                                  1-770-514-3770
Marietta, Georgia, USA 30067-8946              

PGR: 1-800-SKY-PAGE, PIN # 2885987
FAX: 770-429-5417 or 770-795-2132



HPR - Shoot for the Stars!   ...and Blue Skies to 'Ya.

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Tim Vog » Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>Can anyone help me in locating a source for various grades of fiberglass cloth?

Try:
Alexander Aeroplane Company
P.O. Box 909
Griffin GA 30224
1-800-831-2949

They supply the homebuilt aircraft market. Lots of glass and even
graphite fiber.

-Tim
(||  Voght Systems - Embedded Systems Development
(||           -----------Software----Hardware---------    
(||              http://www.a1.com/priam/voght.html

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Wolfram v.Kipars » Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

> I was going to reply similarly and will add my commments to Buzz's.  The first
> time I glassed a tube, it was tricky.  Now it is easy, and I prefer it to
> filling seams, even if it did not add strength.  Also, it's not a waste on
> a peeled tube, since there are lots of cheap, heavy tubes out there that
> are too heavy to use as-is, benefit from peeling, but may need reinforcing.
> If you haven't tried glassing a tube or rocket, try it out.

Hey Lee!

There is an inconsistency in your post that maybe you can clear up.  I
have always enjoyed reading your posts!

You say that you, "prefer it to filling seams, even if it did not add strength,"
 and yet you add,
"there are lots of cheap, heavy tubes out there that are too heavy to use
as-is, benefit from peeling, but may need reinforcing."

You said it doesn't add strenght, yet you use it for reinforcing.  How's that?

I have never glassed a tube, but I want to teach myself how, and reading
everyone's suggestions (past and present) has been very informative and
encouraging.

Wolf

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by kaplo.. » Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:00:00


Quote:



> I've called auto body supply stores, marine supply stores, and even
> fiberglass fabricators, and only the fabricators and marine supply house
> knew what I was talking about when I asked about, 3/4 oz., 2 oz, 4 oz.,
> etc. fiberglass cloth.  No one could help me in finding a place, locally,
> to buy the stuff.

Forget auto body shops for anything but the real heavy stuff. Try a hobby
shop that sells RC stuff, or one of the many mail order places like SIG.
They have fiberglass cloth down to 3/4 oz and lighter.


USPO:   HealthCare COMPARE Corp, 5ISD, 3200 Highland Av. Downers Grove, IL 60515
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any knowledge of my actions. These bits will self destruct in 5 seconds....

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Wolfram v.Kipars » Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:00:00



Quote:

> I have never glassed a tube, but I want to teach myself how, and reading
> everyone's suggestions (past and present) has been very informative and
> encouraging.

I've called auto body supply stores, marine supply stores, and even
fiberglass fabricators, and only the fabricators and marine supply house
knew what I was talking about when I asked about, 3/4 oz., 2 oz, 4 oz.,
etc. fiberglass cloth.  No one could help me in finding a place, locally,
to buy the stuff.

Can anyone help me in locating a source for various grades of fiberglass cloth?

Wolf

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by The Silent Observ » Tue, 24 Oct 1995 04:00:00




Quote:

>I've called auto body supply stores, marine supply stores, and even
>fiberglass fabricators, and only the fabricators and marine supply
house
>knew what I was talking about when I asked about, 3/4 oz., 2 oz, 4 oz.,
>etc. fiberglass cloth.  No one could help me in finding a place,
locally,
>to buy the stuff.

>Can anyone help me in locating a source for various grades of

fiberglass cloth?

Try a local R/C airplane hobby shop -- many of those planes use 3/4 oz
cloth in various applications, as well as considerable quantities of 2
oz.

--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

| Owner/Operator of     | necessary, eventually ...                    |
| TableTop Publications |             ...but it will still be an evil! |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| All opinions expressed are my own, and should in no way be mistaken  |
| for those of the reader.                                             |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

 
 
 

Yet more cheap tricks: Tube peeling...

Post by Dangerous Da » Wed, 25 Oct 1995 04:00:00


Quote:


>>Can anyone help me in locating a source for various grades of fiberglass cloth?
>Try:
>Alexander Aeroplane Company
>P.O. Box 909
>Griffin GA 30224
>1-800-831-2949
>They supply the homebuilt aircraft market. Lots of glass and even
>graphite fiber.
>-Tim
>(||  Voght Systems - Embedded Systems Development
>(||           -----------Software----Hardware---------    
>(||              http://www.a1.com/priam/voght.html


Alexander Aeroplane is a great company! Good prices and fast service

Take it easy,

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


ftp://ftp.elite.net/pub/users/rocket/ * http://www.elite.net/~rocket/
Soon to be: ftp://ftp.ddave.com/ddave/ * http://www.ddave.com/ddave/