Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Fred Shecte » Wed, 06 Sep 2000 22:48:10



Report this problem to Estes!!!!!!!!!!  1-800-525-7561.

They will replace defective motors and the kits that are damaged!  They
nmeed to know about these problems to do proper quality control and improve
their products (by switching back to the previous clay supplier ???)

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117


Quote:
> I had an Estez "Zinger" that I was entering on a B engine.  It took off
and
> headed straight for the RCO table, missed by a few feet then landed, still
> burning. on the dirt road right next to several people and their cars.
> Luckilly no human or property damage.  Turns out the clay nozzle of the
Estes
> engine didn't hold up and fell apart resulting in uneven thrust.  No
mid-power
> CATO's for me.... yet.

> Alex Immerman

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by GaryKinnam » Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:57:39


 For those of you who are

Quote:
>new or BARs, the MESS program was a gentle nudge to the manufacturers at the
>time to let the know that we were watching for possible problems.  

It's been a long time since I've ever seen a MESS report summary. Must be
decades ago since one was published by NAR.  It would be nice to see the
summary of these reports, posted on a yearly basis on the NAR website.  It
would also be necessary to base the summary conclusions as a percentage of
motors sold, as a total number is meaningless without that information

Gary Kinnamon           NOVAAR
NAR# 30066               TRA# 7024 L2
"Preserving our History"

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by GaryKinnam » Thu, 07 Sep 2000 01:08:12


Quote:

>> Seems likely that due to the fact you finished out your rocket so nice, it
>> was deemed a suitable offering to the rocket gods!  I'm serious, the first
>> few high power kits I built I spent over $100 on IMRON paint on each of
>> them, none of them were long for this world.  The next couple got nice
>> finishes but from spray cans, and they are still flying today.  It
>> sucks

>Sounds like you hadn't flown enough little rockets first -- I've
>figured for a long, long time that any rocket's next flight is likely
>to be its last, so putting too much effort into the finish would be a
>bad mistake...

With so much negative vibes, is it any wonder that your poorr little rockets
are having such a hard time of it.  I finish all my rockets as if they'll last
forever.  Well perhaps they won't, as landing on paving, rocks, or tree limbs
doesn't help much.  I guess its just pride of workmanship

Gary Kinnamon              NOVAAR
NAR# 30066                  TRA# 7024 L2
"Preserving our History".

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Ex-FID » Thu, 07 Sep 2000 01:48:17


Quote:

>Sounds like you hadn't flown enough little rockets first -- I've
>figured for a long, long time that any rocket's next flight is likely
>to be its last, so putting too much effort into the finish would be a
>bad mistake...

Arrogance goes before the fall, I guess.  I've been flying low-power
for 30 years (off and on).  Most of my kits are 20 years old.  I built
a new Python last year (1st kit in 10+ years) and now the Arreaux.
Hadn't CATO'ed in ages.  Flying once every year or two DOES extend the
lifetime!  

I didn't MEAN to put so much effort into it, honest!  But the more I
learned about primers, painting, clearcoats, etc., the more ambitious
I got.  And since the shelf time of my rockets has been exceeding the
air time by a factor of about a jillion....

And, truth be told, I'll probably do it again.  <sigh>

T
<"Not now, CATO, you fool!!">

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Ex-FID » Thu, 07 Sep 2000 01:50:44


Quote:

>Looks like someone likes to watch "Veggie Tales"

Yeah, but that's just a coincidence!

The reference was to the Hindenburg.....  :)

T
<"Not now, CATO, you fool!!">

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Craig Utle » Thu, 07 Sep 2000 02:31:55


Terry,

Wow, things actually have changed around here in the last year. A year ago,
when I left, your story would have produced the following reply from one of
several members of the ADL (Aerotech Defense League):

"Terry, you are at fault. You must have put the ignitor in wrong. If the
nozzle caps are canted, it means you must have stored the motors in your
oven while it was on, melting the glue and causing the cap to cant. This is
all your fault. Aerotech doesn't ever do anything wrong. You are to
blame..."

Now, however, all replies seem reasonable. First, fill out a NAR MESS form.
Then, contact Aerotech. Given the current star alignment, you will get
excellent customer service or be completely ignored.

--Craig


[snip]

Quote:
> Autopsy seems to indicate the nozzle cap was glued on incorrectly;
> there appears to be a few degrees of cant between it and the casing.
> The nozzle throat is now oval-shaped and clearly misaligned with the
> centerline of the casing, which supports this theory.  The same cant
> appears on the other engine from the same two-pack.

> Anyone have similar horrific experiences?

> T

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Alan Jon » Thu, 07 Sep 2000 05:14:44



Quote:
> Three
>decades ago we were on very friendly terms with the few manufacturers that made
>model rocket motors.  Often a phone call resolved any problems that were
>manifested upon the public.
>Chas
>NAR 9790


Are you suggesting that is no longer the case?  How are such problems
resolved today?  How would you characterize the relatrionship with
manufacturers today?

Alan Jones

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Mark Simpso » Fri, 08 Sep 2000 11:26:31


Joe,
My sentiments exactly.  Contact paper works, too. ;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

Quote:


> > Seems likely that due to the fact you finished out your rocket so nice, it
> > was deemed a suitable offering to the rocket gods!  I'm serious, the first
> > few high power kits I built I spent over $100 on IMRON paint on each of
> > them, none of them were long for this world.  The next couple got nice
> > finishes but from spray cans, and they are still flying today.  It
> > sucks

> Sounds like you hadn't flown enough little rockets first -- I've
> figured for a long, long time that any rocket's next flight is likely
> to be its last, so putting too much effort into the finish would be a
> bad mistake...
> --
> Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D.       Phone -- (505) 646-1605
> Department of Computer Science       FAX   -- (505) 646-1002
> New Mexico State University          http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
> VL 2000 Homepage:  http://www.cs.orst.edu/~burnett/vl2000/

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Randy Griffi » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:53:07


Ex-FIDO? Does that mean what I think it does?

I've just finished reading Gene Kranz's book "Failure is Not an Option".
A very good book, by the way.

So when I see FIDO, I'm thinking Flight Dynamics (IIRC), right?

-Randy

Quote:


> >Sounds like you hadn't flown enough little rockets first -- I've
> >figured for a long, long time that any rocket's next flight is likely
> >to be its last, so putting too much effort into the finish would be a
> >bad mistake...

> Arrogance goes before the fall, I guess.  I've been flying low-power
> for 30 years (off and on).  Most of my kits are 20 years old.  I built
> a new Python last year (1st kit in 10+ years) and now the Arreaux.
> Hadn't CATO'ed in ages.  Flying once every year or two DOES extend the
> lifetime!

> I didn't MEAN to put so much effort into it, honest!  But the more I
> learned about primers, painting, clearcoats, etc., the more ambitious
> I got.  And since the shelf time of my rockets has been exceeding the
> air time by a factor of about a jillion....

> And, truth be told, I'll probably do it again.  <sigh>

> T
> <"Not now, CATO, you fool!!">

--
Randy R. Griffin
Vice President
Sheboygan Astronomical Society
http://www.ShebAstro.org
 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by John P Robert » Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:42:44


Quote:

>I've just finished reading Gene Kranz's book "Failure is Not an
Option".
>A very good book.

Another really good one, if you can find it, is Charles Murray &
Catherine Cox's "Apollo: The Race to the Moon". It tells the Apollo
story from an engineering perspective. The most amazing thing was how
young everyone was; a great many important conributors were in their 20s
and even just out of college. Made me wish I'd been born in 1940 instead
of 1963.

--
     John Roberts
     Eugene, Oregon
     NAR 78203

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by G S » Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:46:51




[...]

Quote:
> Another really good one, if you can find it, is Charles Murray &
> Catherine Cox's "Apollo: The Race to the Moon". It tells the Apollo
> story from an engineering perspective. The most amazing thing was how
> young everyone was; a great many important conributors were in their 20s
> and even just out of college. Made me wish I'd been born in 1940 instead
> of 1963.

Tell me about it!  I missed the whole moon deal altogether, being an infant
and all.  Oh well, at least I can say that I was alive when it all happened
(if not terribly conscious).

The Murray & Cox book remains my favorite to this day with Chaikin's book
running a close second.  Too bad Murray had to follow it up with his Bell
Curve book.

Gary Schroeder
Recently minted B.A.R.

 
 
 

Welcome to mid-power: BIG time CATO....

Post by Eric Gunnerso » Thu, 14 Sep 2000 03:37:43


Don't forget the Apollo NASA Mission Reports, published by Apogee books.

Where else could you find out that the Apollo 11 lunar module ascent stage
weighed 4804 pounds, or that the nominal command module oxygen metabolism
rate was 0.08 lb/hr.


Quote:


> [...]
> > Another really good one, if you can find it, is Charles Murray &
> > Catherine Cox's "Apollo: The Race to the Moon". It tells the Apollo
> > story from an engineering perspective. The most amazing thing was how
> > young everyone was; a great many important conributors were in their 20s
> > and even just out of college. Made me wish I'd been born in 1940 instead
> > of 1963.

> Tell me about it!  I missed the whole moon deal altogether, being an
infant
> and all.  Oh well, at least I can say that I was alive when it all
happened
> (if not terribly conscious).

> The Murray & Cox book remains my favorite to this day with Chaikin's book
> running a close second.  Too bad Murray had to follow it up with his Bell
> Curve book.

> Gary Schroeder
> Recently minted B.A.R.