Kevlar Replacement

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Andy En » Sun, 17 Dec 2000 00:03:29



Hello All,

Maybe old news to some...

While wandering through the labs, I chatted with a new guy who's working
on drop testing steerable X-38 parafoils.  Aside from all the telemetry
jazz, he passed along that there's something called Zylar (sp?) that's
suppose to be gobs stronger than Kevlar that's going to be used.

That's about all I know of the stuff.

Sounded like an interesting project.

Andy

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Rick Polzell » Sun, 17 Dec 2000 00:23:15


Looks like it is made by Nova Chemicals. For you chemists, it's shown as
"Methyl Methacrylate Butadiene Styrene Terpolymer". Lots of technical data
available.
Quote:

> Hello All,

> Maybe old news to some...

> While wandering through the labs, I chatted with a new guy who's working
> on drop testing steerable X-38 parafoils.  Aside from all the telemetry
> jazz, he passed along that there's something called Zylar (sp?) that's
> suppose to be gobs stronger than Kevlar that's going to be used.

> That's about all I know of the stuff.

> Sounded like an interesting project.

> Andy

> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/


 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by markwsimp.. » Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:56:59




Quote:
> Looks like it is made by Nova Chemicals. For you chemists, it's shown
as
> "Methyl Methacrylate Butadiene Styrene Terpolymer". Lots of technical
data
> available.

So, in other words, it's combustable?  No Amido, Fluo, Chloro, or bromo
moieties?

Mark (showing off his chemistry degree) Simpson ;-)
NAR 71503 Level II

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by David Weinshenke » Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:46:53


Quote:

>  For you chemists, it's shown as
> > "Methyl Methacrylate Butadiene Styrene Terpolymer".
> >  Lots of technical data available.

> So, in other words, it's combustable?
> No Amido, Fluo, Chloro, or bromo
> moieties?

Name sure sounds like it, don't it?

(Though halogenated doesn't necessarily equate
to noncombustible: think PVC, which has been
used as hybrid rocket fuel IIRC.)

Wouldn't be surprised if it had a fairly high
melting point even so... hard to say without seeing
the structure but I'm guessing significant
crosslinkage instead of a linear chain?

-dave w

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Rick Polzell » Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:05:11


The data sheet indicates a processing (Melt) temp of 410 deg. F to 470 deg.
F

It seems Zylar is typically used for injection molding of computer parts,
toys, and medical items.


Quote:

> >  For you chemists, it's shown as
> > > "Methyl Methacrylate Butadiene Styrene Terpolymer".
> > >  Lots of technical data available.

> > So, in other words, it's combustable?
> > No Amido, Fluo, Chloro, or bromo
> > moieties?

> Name sure sounds like it, don't it?

> (Though halogenated doesn't necessarily equate
> to noncombustible: think PVC, which has been
> used as hybrid rocket fuel IIRC.)

> Wouldn't be surprised if it had a fairly high
> melting point even so... hard to say without seeing
> the structure but I'm guessing significant
> crosslinkage instead of a linear chain?

> -dave w

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by bob fortun » Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:08:19


Hey Andy,

Might it have been Zylon?  That's a fancy, super-expensive kevlar type
material made by the Zylonians and shipped to Earth via plasma reverse
oscillating frambulators. The freight charges are horrendous which
explains the cost.

I've seen it used as tethers for race car wheel sub assemblies, they had
to do something after a couple of them zinged off the track and killed
people.  Take a look here:
http://www.toyobo.co.jp/e/seihin/kc/pbo/index.htm

Bob

Quote:

> Hello All,

> Maybe old news to some...

> While wandering through the labs, I chatted with a new guy who's working
> on drop testing steerable X-38 parafoils.  Aside from all the telemetry
> jazz, he passed along that there's something called Zylar (sp?) that's
> suppose to be gobs stronger than Kevlar that's going to be used.

> That's about all I know of the stuff.

> Sounded like an interesting project.

> Andy

> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Jim Z in V » Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:38:08


 > Might it have been Zylon?  ....................  Take a look here:

Quote:
> http://www.toyobo.co.jp/e/seihin/kc/pbo/index.htm

    Wow..that must be good stuff!!!    From the website: "Zylon will be able
to contribute to the well-being of mankind in the 21st century."   I'll take
some of that!
--
Jim Z in Vermont

(to reply by e-mail, remove the polite decline from my address)
 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Mark Simpso » Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:52:21


Good lookin stuff Bob.

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

Quote:

> Hey Andy,

> Might it have been Zylon?  That's a fancy, super-expensive kevlar type
> material made by the Zylonians and shipped to Earth via plasma reverse
> oscillating frambulators. The freight charges are horrendous which
> explains the cost.

> I've seen it used as tethers for race car wheel sub assemblies, they had
> to do something after a couple of them zinged off the track and killed
> people.  Take a look here:
> http://www.toyobo.co.jp/e/seihin/kc/pbo/index.htm

> Bob


> > Hello All,

> > Maybe old news to some...

> > While wandering through the labs, I chatted with a new guy who's working
> > on drop testing steerable X-38 parafoils.  Aside from all the telemetry
> > jazz, he passed along that there's something called Zylar (sp?) that's
> > suppose to be gobs stronger than Kevlar that's going to be used.

> > That's about all I know of the stuff.

> > Sounded like an interesting project.

> > Andy

> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Andy E » Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:12:21


Hmmm...

From the web site, Zylon is

Poly(p-phenylene-2,6-benzobisoxazole)(PBO) is a rigid-rod isotropic
crystal polymer.

And from a previous post:

Quote:
>So, in other words, it's combustable?  No Amido, Fluo, Chloro, or bromo moieties?

So is the stuff that keeps it from burning the zobisox?  :-)

Andy (waaaaaaay out of his league) Eng

p.s.  Hey Bob, did you google upon this?



Quote:
>Good lookin stuff Bob.

>Mark Simpson
>NAR 71503 Level II


>> Hey Andy,

>> Might it have been Zylon?  That's a fancy, super-expensive kevlar type
>> material made by the Zylonians and shipped to Earth via plasma reverse
>> oscillating frambulators. The freight charges are horrendous which
>> explains the cost.

>> I've seen it used as tethers for race car wheel sub assemblies, they had
>> to do something after a couple of them zinged off the track and killed
>> people.  Take a look here:
>> http://www.toyobo.co.jp/e/seihin/kc/pbo/index.htm

>> Bob


>> > Hello All,

>> > Maybe old news to some...

>> > While wandering through the labs, I chatted with a new guy who's working
>> > on drop testing steerable X-38 parafoils.  Aside from all the telemetry
>> > jazz, he passed along that there's something called Zylar (sp?) that's
>> > suppose to be gobs stronger than Kevlar that's going to be used.

>> > That's about all I know of the stuff.

>> > Sounded like an interesting project.

>> > Andy

>> > Sent via Deja.com
>> > http://www.deja.com/

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by bob fortun » Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:46:28


Hey Andy,

Nope, not originally.  I was talking to Dave Hall, the China Lake bomb
guy, about kevlar a couple of years ago and he mentioned the folks at
his shop investigating a new material called Zylon by PBO for reactive
armor or motor casings or something, I don't recall.  We had a running
string of emails about the Zylonians of Japan, it was pretty funny.  So
I dropped PBO an email asking for a sample, this is what I got back:

Quote:
> Dear Mr. Fortune,
> Thank you very much for your inquiry about our ZYLON fiber.
> We are working on R&D stage of ZYLON and will advise you later when it
> comes up to commercial stage, that we are expecting not earlier than in
> October 1998.
> So we don not have any distributor in the US yet. We are only able to provide
> a limited numbers of potential customers with ZYLON sample produced in
> our pilot plant for application and marketing research by making secrecy
> agreement.  For our production is too small for the moment, we have hardly
> had our potential customer satisfied with the quantity we provide.
> Considering above situation, we sincerely ask you for small patience to wait
> for a few months until we are ready to offer you properly.
> It would be very helpful if you could provide us more information about your
> company, market size and application image that you are thinking of, before
> we are going into further discussion on this item.
> Just for your information, the price should be three to four times higher
> than p-aramid type, but still competitive when we consider strength and
> thermal stabilty, as you might know from our web site.  
> Best regards.
> Masakazu Saito

I never did get that sample. : )

Bob

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Hmmm...

> From the web site, Zylon is

> Poly(p-phenylene-2,6-benzobisoxazole)(PBO) is a rigid-rod isotropic
> crystal polymer.

> And from a previous post:

> >So, in other words, it's combustable?  No Amido, Fluo, Chloro, or bromo moieties?

> So is the stuff that keeps it from burning the zobisox?  :-)

> Andy (waaaaaaay out of his league) Eng

> p.s.  Hey Bob, did you google upon this?h

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Rick Polzell » Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:43:26



Quote:
> I never did get that sample. : )

Okay, but tell me more about the Zylonians!
 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Mark Simpso » Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:41:46


Quote:

> Hmmm...

> From the web site, Zylon is

> Poly(p-phenylene-2,6-benzobisoxazole)(PBO) is a rigid-rod isotropic
> crystal polymer.

> And from a previous post:

> >So, in other words, it's combustable?  No Amido, Fluo, Chloro, or bromo moieties?

> So is the stuff that keeps it from burning the zobisox?  :-)

No, it has a lot of aromaticity (ie, benzene rings) and contains oxazoles, which are
5-membered rings with an oxygen and nitrogen atom in the ring structure.
Poly-aromatics typically have high auto-ignition temperatures and are less flammable
than aliphatic hydrocarbon-based polymers.  Are you thoroughly confused yet? ;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Andy Waddel » Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:19:48


(Incredibly OT)...Mark, what the h*ll is 2,3 Butandiol? (It's the only thing
I remember from my organic chem courses of WAAAAY too long ago!).

The only other somewhat organic-chem related thing that still sticks in the
"don't know why it's here, wish I could clear it for some useful
information" section of my brain is an ingredient on a Clark bar: "acetyl
and tartaric esters of mono- and tri-glycerides". I know esters have to do
with odor, but that's about it.

--
Andrew D. Waddell
PML Online Support Rep
TRA 2043 L2/NAR 52875 L2

PML: www.publicmissiles.com

Quote:


> > Hmmm...

> > From the web site, Zylon is

> > Poly(p-phenylene-2,6-benzobisoxazole)(PBO) is a rigid-rod isotropic
> > crystal polymer.

> > And from a previous post:

> > >So, in other words, it's combustable?  No Amido, Fluo, Chloro, or bromo
moieties?

> > So is the stuff that keeps it from burning the zobisox?  :-)

> No, it has a lot of aromaticity (ie, benzene rings) and contains oxazoles,
which are
> 5-membered rings with an oxygen and nitrogen atom in the ring structure.
> Poly-aromatics typically have high auto-ignition temperatures and are less
flammable
> than aliphatic hydrocarbon-based polymers.  Are you thoroughly confused
yet? ;-)

> Mark Simpson
> NAR 71503 Level II

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by Mark Simpso » Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:48:38


Andy,
It's a di-*** with the ***(OH)  groups on the 2nd and 3rd carbons  in
the 4 carbon chain.  Think of it as ethylene glycol with CH3 training wheels.
;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

Quote:

> (Incredibly OT)...Mark, what the h*ll is 2,3 Butandiol? (It's the only thing
> I remember from my organic chem courses of WAAAAY too long ago!).

 
 
 

Kevlar Replacement

Post by John H. Cato, Jr » Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:28:51


Mark Simpson wrote

Quote:
>No, it has a lot of aromaticity (ie, benzene rings) and contains oxazoles,
which are
>5-membered rings with an oxygen and nitrogen atom in the ring structure.
>Poly-aromatics typically have high auto-ignition temperatures and are less
flammable
>than aliphatic hydrocarbon-based polymers.  Are you thoroughly confused yet?

;-)

No - just tell us *why*, Mark.

(Seriously -- this sounds interesting).

-- john.

(... or, refer us to a source to 'dig it out' for ourselves (after 6 quarters
of college chemistry, I guess <g>).  Hint: I at least know what a 'benzene
ring' is -- admittedly, not a great deal, but it's a start.)