Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by James Wentwor » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Hello Everyone,

In the past month someone (I don't remember who, as I've talked with so many
people recently) told me that a Canadian firm is developing a cold
propellant rocket motor similar to the Vashon/Estes motors.  Does anyone on
this group know about this?

The hobby could use a safe liquid propellant rocket like this.  Like the old
Vashon/Estes cold propellant rockets, these could be flown in those
unenlightened communities that still prohibit model rocketry activities.
They would also be more realistic propulsion systems for scale models of
liquid-fueled rockets.  They would be particularly useful for scale models
of boosted liquid propellant rockets (WAC Corporal, Aerobee, etc.) because
the sustainer's exhaust wouldn't barbecue the parallel-firing booster.

I assume that this Canadian cold propellant motor will not use Freon-12.  I
imagine it could use one of the hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) or perhaps sulfur
dioxide.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who knows about this new development.

Jason

--
James J. Wentworth

 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by The Silent Observe » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hello Everyone,

> In the past month someone (I don't remember who, as I've talked with so many
> people recently) told me that a Canadian firm is developing a cold
> propellant rocket motor similar to the Vashon/Estes motors.  Does anyone on
> this group know about this?

<snip>

Quote:
> I assume that this Canadian cold propellant motor will not use Freon-12.  I
> imagine it could use one of the hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) or perhaps sulfur
> dioxide.

I sincerely hope this product doesn't plan on using either HFCs,
bromofluorocarbons, or non-chlorinated fluorocarbons -- all are now
internationally illegal to intentionally vent to the atmosphere.
Likewise, I hope seriously unpleasant refrigerants like SO2 and ammonia
aren't being considered.

Such a rocket is much more likely to use carbon dioxide, with a slight
possibility of using propane or propane/butane mix which, though
flammable, only contributes to photochemical smog (not a severe problem
in most communities) rather than depleting the ozone or directly
poisoning the rocketeer.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about this particular product --
though I'd look forward to hearing more about it...

--
 WARNING!!  This area has been designated an official DOPE FREE ZONE!!

      If you're going to be a dope, please do it somewhere else!

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages             http://members.aol.com/silntobsvr/launches.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by Fred Shecte » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Perhaps they are using DiHydrogen-Monoxide at a temperature of 35 F and
pressurizing it?

-Shread Vector NRA #1 Paramount Leader

Quote:

> Hello Everyone,

> In the past month someone (I don't remember who, as I've talked with so many
> people recently) told me that a Canadian firm is developing a cold
> propellant rocket motor similar to the Vashon/Estes motors.  Does anyone on
> this group know about this?

> The hobby could use a safe liquid propellant rocket like this.  Like the old
> Vashon/Estes cold propellant rockets, these could be flown in those
> unenlightened communities that still prohibit model rocketry activities.
> They would also be more realistic propulsion systems for scale models of
> liquid-fueled rockets.  They would be particularly useful for scale models
> of boosted liquid propellant rockets (WAC Corporal, Aerobee, etc.) because
> the sustainer's exhaust wouldn't barbecue the parallel-firing booster.

> I assume that this Canadian cold propellant motor will not use Freon-12.  I
> imagine it could use one of the hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) or perhaps sulfur
> dioxide.

> Many thanks in advance to anyone who knows about this new development.

> Jason

> --
> James J. Wentworth


 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by tlanie » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


LOL  And its not even 4/1/99 yet!

Tom

--

 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by Bruce Lerne » Sun, 25 Oct 1998 04:00:00


In re dihydro monoxide at 35 F

I believe you need mono polar magnetic field containment to hold this in
place, otherwise you run the risk of not negotiating a turn in the space
time continuum.

Bruce "Yes I know this was a sorry attempt at humor" L.

 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by John Horto » Sun, 25 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Are you guys crazy? DiHydrogen-Monoxide is a key ingredient in acid rain, it
can cause suffocation, if reacts dangerously with with many chemicals, in
cold climates it interferes with automotive handling, and so on. This stuff
is a dangerous solvent. It is one thing to use it as a cleaning agent, but
for your own sake, be careful!

Quote:

>Perhaps they are using DiHydrogen-Monoxide at a temperature of 35 F and
>pressurizing it?

>-Shread Vector NRA #1 Paramount Leader


>> Hello Everyone,

>> In the past month someone (I don't remember who, as I've talked with so
many
>> people recently) told me that a Canadian firm is developing a cold
>> propellant rocket motor similar to the Vashon/Estes motors.  Does anyone
on
>> this group know about this?

>> The hobby could use a safe liquid propellant rocket like this.  Like the
old
>> Vashon/Estes cold propellant rockets, these could be flown in those
>> unenlightened communities that still prohibit model rocketry activities.
>> They would also be more realistic propulsion systems for scale models of
>> liquid-fueled rockets.  They would be particularly useful for scale
models
>> of boosted liquid propellant rockets (WAC Corporal, Aerobee, etc.)
because
>> the sustainer's exhaust wouldn't barbecue the parallel-firing booster.

>> I assume that this Canadian cold propellant motor will not use Freon-12.
I
>> imagine it could use one of the hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) or perhaps
sulfur
>> dioxide.

>> Many thanks in advance to anyone who knows about this new development.

>> Jason

>> --
>> James J. Wentworth


 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by Lee & Anna Hanso » Mon, 26 Oct 1998 03:00:00


I wish I had seen the original post for this.

Quote:

> Are you guys crazy? DiHydrogen-Monoxide is a key ingredient in acid rain, it
> can cause suffocation, if reacts dangerously with with many chemicals, in

<snip>
 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by Bill Nels » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


:
: In the past month someone (I don't remember who, as I've talked with so many
: people recently) told me that a Canadian firm is developing a cold
: propellant rocket motor similar to the Vashon/Estes motors.  Does anyone on
: this group know about this?
:
: The hobby could use a safe liquid propellant rocket like this.  Like the old
: Vashon/Estes cold propellant rockets, these could be flown in those
: unenlightened communities that still prohibit model rocketry activities.
: They would also be more realistic propulsion systems for scale models of
: liquid-fueled rockets.  They would be particularly useful for scale models
: of boosted liquid propellant rockets (WAC Corporal, Aerobee, etc.) because
: the sustainer's exhaust wouldn't barbecue the parallel-firing booster.

The problem is that such motors have very poor performance. With the old
Vashon rockets, you were lucky to get a few hundred feet of altitude. On
a cold day, it might not even get off the pad.

I might purchase one for my motor collection, but I would not waste the
time trying to fly it in a rocket.

--

 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by James Wentwor » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


: The problem is that such motors have very poor performance. With the old
: Vashon rockets, you were lucky to get a few hundred feet of altitude. On
: a cold day, it might not even get off the pad.

: I might purchase one for my motor collection, but I would not waste the
: time trying to fly it in a rocket.

Being a scale modeler, I don't particularly care if it isn't very
powerful--I am more interested in realism.  The Vashon V-2 engine was a
B8, which isn't too shabby.  If the Canadian engine is anything like the
Vashon V-2, it would make a fine propulsion system for small scale
models.  It would be especially nice for scale models of boosted liquid
propellant rockets like the Aerobee.  A scale Aerobee-Hi using a V-2
equivalent sustainer and an A10-3T powered booster would reach
respectable altitudes.

Jason
--
James J. Wentworth

 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by The Silent Observe » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:


> :

<snip>

Quote:
> : a Canadian firm is developing a cold
> : propellant rocket motor similar to the Vashon/Estes motors.

<snip>

Quote:

> The problem is that such motors have very poor performance. With the old
> Vashon rockets, you were lucky to get a few hundred feet of altitude. On
> a cold day, it might not even get off the pad.

This is strongly dependent on what's used as propellant and/or
pressurant.  If CO2 is used instead of something that only produces 550
kPa at room temperature, you'll get a great deal better performance, and
it won't drop off that much in any temperature suitable for launching
(not counting those in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan who thing
frozen lakes are perfect launch sites).  Somewhere in between the two
would be pure propane instead of a propane/butane mix intended to
emulate R-12, or a propane/ethane mix that would give still higher vapor
pressure and better low-temp performance -- perhaps as much as 1500 kPa
at room temp.

A CO2 "steam" motor running at around 6500 kPa could be made with
material similar in thickness to the tubing used for Aerotech RMS motors
-- and there are commercial CO2 cartridges made for buoyancy vest
inflators and paintball guns that are of suitable size for lightly build
mid-power rockets.  I think this could be a practical motor for the
pyrotechnically restricted or those who want something environmentally
benign.

--
 WARNING!!  This area has been designated an official DOPE FREE ZONE!!

      If you're going to be a dope, please do it somewhere else!

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages             http://members.aol.com/silntobsvr/launches.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

Canadian-made cold propellant rockets?

Post by Stefan E. Jone » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


There's a dihydrogen monoxide article at:

 http://boingboing.net/blastindex.html


Quote:
> I wish I had seen the original post for this.


> > Are you guys crazy? DiHydrogen-Monoxide is a key ingredient in acid rain, it
> > can cause suffocation, if reacts dangerously with with many chemicals, in

> <snip>