Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Post by Doug » Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:00:00



Six of them, to be exact, plus a Vulcunobtainium G200-10 in the middle.
My Magnum weighs 7 lbs, so it's not quite as silly as it sounds.
Groundstarted the G200 with both a Daveyfire and a small Firestar, plus
two F62 Darkstars and two F25W's, all with Daveyfires.  Airstarted two
additional F62-6 Darkstars at 1 sec. Took off a bit wobbly and slow,
weathercocked moderately, one of the F25 lit way late and the rocket
never did get much momentum going, but ended up getting 1450' out of
it.  Deployment from the airstarted F62-6's and the G200 at came
together just after apogee, landed within 75 yards downwind of the pad.

Next time I think I'll try Seven F50-9's all groundstarted, just for
kicks.

 
 
 

Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Post by Jeff Gortatowsk » Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> Six of them, to be exact, plus a Vulcunobtainium G200-10 in the middle.
> My Magnum weighs 7 lbs, so it's not quite as silly as it sounds.

Silly? Sounds like you are related to ROC member Hyam Sosnow... 8)
Hyam launches nothing without at least 3 motors! 8) Of course it be nice if he
got to WATCH them launch. 8)

<snip>

Quote:
> Next time I think I'll try Seven F50-9's all groundstarted, just for
> kicks.

Pay Forward,
Jeff Gortatowsky

 
 
 

Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Post by Stu Barret » Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>Deployment from the airstarted F62-6's and the G200...

Are you saying that if the airstarts did not light that this thing would
have lawn darted?

If so the RSO, should be shot (right after you).

Stu

 
 
 

Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Post by Doug » Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
> >Deployment from the airstarted F62-6's and the G200...

> Are you saying that if the airstarts did not light that this thing would
> have lawn darted?

No, I'm not saying that.  If the airstarts hadn't lit, the G200 and/or
the altimeter would have kicked in anyway.

Quote:

> If so the RSO, should be shot (right after you).

A bit extreme, don't you think?
 
 
 

Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Post by Stu Barret » Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>> >Deployment from the airstarted F62-6's and the G200...

>> Are you saying that if the airstarts did not light that this thing would
>> have lawn darted?

>No, I'm not saying that.  If the airstarts hadn't lit, the G200 and/or
>the altimeter would have kicked in anyway.

Good, cluster rockets should *not* rely on motor(s) for deployment.

Quote:
>> If so the RSO, should be shot (right after you).

>A bit extreme, don't you think?

Probably, but it did get your attention ;-)  Actually, I'm pretty ***about
safety aspects of clusters.  Look at the messages that are posted on RMR
about "how to cluster" from folks that do not have a clue.  I've had to turn
away more than a few cluster rockets as an RSO.

In my opinon, they have the potential to be the most dangerous flights.  I
have seen some real bonehead/terrifying flights that slipped past the RSO.

Stu

 
 
 

Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Post by Doug » Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> Good, cluster rockets should *not* rely on motor(s) for deployment.
[snip]
>Look at the messages that are posted on RMR
> about "how to cluster" from folks that do not have a clue.  I've had to turn
> away more than a few cluster rockets as an RSO.

> In my opinon, they have the potential to be the most dangerous flights.  I
> have seen some real bonehead/terrifying flights that slipped past the RSO.

I like clustering primarily because after being in rocketry for 5 years
as a kid and then 4 more as a BAR, single-motor flights don't get my
adrenaline going anymore.  But you're right, there are way too many
power prangs, land sharks, and other problems caused by bad clustering
technique and poor or non-RSO'ing.  I have made some dumb mistakes too,
as witness by a LOC Magnum*** from an 80' pine in Orangeburg, but
always had a backup system to get a chute out.  The worst clustering
mistake I ever saw was in Cobleskill, September 1996.  A large (7.5")
rocket power pranged in on a K550 because it was groundstarted along
with four G104's.  Anyone who knows the least bit about clustering
should have seen what was wrong with that flight long before it ever
made it to the RSO table.  Anyone reading this who doesn't immediately
know what the problem was, and thinks they want to try clustering,
should get a 2x24mm rocket such as an Estes Impulse or a LOC Starburst
and work their way up.  

Beyond bonehead mistakes, the laws of mathematical probability when
doing clusters work against you. Let's say the igniters you are using
work 98% of the time (i.e. Firestars), and your motor lights without
chuffing and spitting out the igniter without lighting 95% of the time.
If you are doing a 3-motor cluster, the probability of a successful
ignition is now only 80.7%.  Then you still need a good recovery
deployment.  Not an undertaking for novices.

 
 
 

Flying LOC Magnum on F Motors!

Post by Jeff Gortatowsk » Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:00:00


<snip>

Quote:
> made it to the RSO table.  Anyone reading this who doesn't immediately
> know what the problem was, and thinks they want to try clustering,
> should get a 2x24mm rocket such as an Estes Impulse or a LOC Starburst
> and work their way up.

Not flaming here... but

While I agree with your comments and the sentiment they express, your "I know
something you don't know.", is uncalled for. Just tell us the probem so we can
ALL learn. Why should we have to repeat others mistakes when in one minute of
reading I could have learned something valuable about the specific mistake?

<snip>

Quote:
> ignition is now only 80.7%.  Then you still need a good recovery
> deployment.  Not an undertaking for novices.

Then, IMO, do the smart thing and start educating. I could simply learn from
Hyam Sosnow, or Ken Finwall. But not everyone reading RMR is so lucky. I don't
mean this to sound contentious. But you could be part of the solution instead of
allowing

Pay Forward, <--- (meaning pass on to those coming behind you what you know)
Jeff Gortatowsky

--
This message has been packed using modern automated machinery. Packed
by weight not volume, some settling of contents may have occurred during
shipment. "Trust but verify" - Ronald W. Regan on assembling a RMS.


NAR: 70988 Level I   Member: ROC and SCRA      TRA: 5678      IAR# 43