NAR - TRA Merger?

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by 120701000-R.G.KOEHLER(MT60 » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 06:17:27



<Matt's post deleted; no offense Matt!>

    (As Matt disappears into ashes), I have to agree with him.  At least
they (NAR and Tripoli) should start putting their combined efforts into
working some of the issues that currently haunt us.  I realize that their
respective philosophies may differ slightly but their goals are close enough.

Rich Koehler
NAR# 62059

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by Greg Hori » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 06:57:47



Quote:
Stephen Viggiano) writes:

>> I guess I'll still build the BT-60 Gemini-Titan.

>If you use the BNC-60AB, you'll need a BT-70. The spacecraft itself is
>7.5 feet in diameter at its base; the Titan II booster is 10 feet in
>diameter. The two Adapter Modules, when properly scaled, adapt the
>BNC-60AB to a BT-70 tube. To within a millimeter of an inch, as Irv
>Pobboravsky would say. Which is close enough for gummint work.

What I meant to say was BT-70, yeah, that's it, BT-70 Gemini-Titan...Thanks
for the pointers.

Quote:
>No, you'll find the answer to what I'm building on the cover of the 1972
>Estes Catalog. Though I am including the adapter modules, which were
>left out on the gizmo on the catalog cover. Always thought that was the
>coolest aspect of the '72 catalog, even cooler than the Vashon stuff.

Oh sure, give me clues that I can't verify.  I think my brother's dog at the
1972 catalog that I had when I was in Jr. High back then.  What's on the
cover anyway?  

Greg Horine                    |   "Of course these opinions are
NAR 62194                      |     mine, they're the only thing that
Amateur Radio N9PBD  |     I do own!"


 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by Matthew Joseph Rosenwass » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 01:14:59


        As I step into my firefighters' outfit courtesy the
        FDNY...

        To my knowledge, this has not been discussed in awhile
        and was curious to see what everyone thought.

        It would seem that given the state of consumer rocketry
        in general, a merger between the NAR and the TRA would
        be in order for several reasons:

        1)  In dealing with government agencies and regulatory
        bodies, presenting a united front would be easier and
        more efficient for everyone involved.  While we know
        the differences between the two associations, government
        agencies make little, if any differentiation between the
        two.  In their mind, both are lobby groups for "people
        who send objects vertically up in the air using flammable
        solids. "  To a certain extent, it would seem prudent to
        align ourselves as the outside world sees us.
        A house divided among itself cannot stand.  Strength in
        numbers.

        2)  Both groups, if joined together, would not have to
        give up their autonomy over their parts of the hobby.
        Such a merger, should it occur, would see the Tripoli
        leadership keeping sway over the High Powered
        activities, while the NAR would deal with lower powered
        rockets.  As it is, things seem to be working out along
        those lines, since people are often members of both
        groups.    

        3)  The newly-merged organization would create a
        mutually symbiotic relationship.  The low-power
        wing would naturally feed members into the higher-power
        wing and vice versa.  Also, the combined buying power
        (finances, market etc.)
        that the new association would represent would increase.
        Money has weight.  More money, more weight.

        4)  TRA would gain since it would put itself on
        tax exempt status.

        5)  The range of rockets launched at meets would increase
        even futher.  One could imagine a NARAM under the new
        organization - launches of everything from 1/4 A's to
        staged, clustered air started K's.  Bigger event, more
        of a media attraction, more press for the hobby.

        6)  Proposed setup:

                National Association of Rocketry

        Low Power Division              High Power-Tripoli Division

        - Regulate activities           - Regulate activities
         1/4 A - E class engines          F - O class engines
                                        - Run certification program
                                          for HPR
                                        - Run RC rocket glider program

        The existing committees that are duplicated by both
        organizations would be merged to keep representation
        of both organizations about equal.  

                Matt

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by Peter G. Olivo » Mon, 21 Nov 1994 08:09:51



Quote:

>>        5)  The range of rockets launched at meets would increase
>>        even futher.  One could imagine a NARAM under the new
>>        organization - launches of everything from 1/4 A's to
>>        staged, clustered air started K's.  Bigger event, more
>>        of a media attraction, more press for the hobby.

>Large, staged, clustered, K's and higher, high power meets are best if
>the only audience is the actual flyers.  All that's needed is lots of media
>attention on, say, something like the tire deflating incident.  

>It's a good idea, but not yet.

The spring Culpeper launch had a lot of spectators, including
representatives of the BATF, with lots of big rockets including K's, L's,
large clusters, staging, etc.  I think the failures that did occur were an
indication that the sport isn't as dangerous as some of the screaming soccer
moms who keep trying to shut us down think.
--


 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by bill nels » Mon, 21 Nov 1994 15:10:04



: As a member of both organizations, I'm not sure I'd like to see a merger
: into a monolith. This hobby/pastime/lifestyle (Sorry Bob :) is evolving,
: and the process will be faster if it goes in more than one direction at
: once. Cooperation is mandatory in the current regulatory environment,
: but IMHO, so is redundancy :(
:
: -Larry C.

Agreed. For example, I have no idea how the NAR is taking the near
introduction of hybrid motors. I know that TRA will happily accept
them.

Bill

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by bill nels » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 13:09:43



:
:       4)  TRA would gain since it would put itself on
:       tax exempt status.

TRA is already tax exempt.

:       5)  The range of rockets launched at meets would increase
:       even futher.  One could imagine a NARAM under the new
:       organization - launches of everything from 1/4 A's to
:       staged, clustered air started K's.  Bigger event, more
:       of a media attraction, more press for the hobby.

NAR events already include HP rockets, if they get a waiver.

As far as I know, TRA does not have any competition flying, nor are very
many of the members interested. Those that are, and even many who do not
(such as myself), belong to both associations.

Bill

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by bill nels » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 13:11:05


: <Matt's post deleted; no offense Matt!>
:
:     (As Matt disappears into ashes), I have to agree with him.  At least
: they (NAR and Tripoli) should start putting their combined efforts into
: working some of the issues that currently haunt us.  I realize that their
: respective philosophies may differ slightly but their goals are close enough.

You are a bit behind the times. The NAR and TRA have been working together
on regulatory issues for quite a while now.

Bill

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by r.. » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 10:20:53


Quote:

> As far as I know, TRA does not have any competition flying, nor are very
> many of the members interested.

It's been discussed on Compuserve.  My suggestion has been Watermelon Loft.  
Others have suggested Dozen-Egg-Loft, with points for the % of the dozen left
in ratio to the total impulse of the engine, G or H Boostglider, Ditto for
Heliocopter, etc.
 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by Mick Ishma » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 22:14:26


: > As far as I know, TRA does not have any competition flying, nor are very
: > many of the members interested.

: It's been discussed on Compuserve.  My suggestion has been Watermelon Loft.  
: Others have suggested Dozen-Egg-Loft, with points for the % of the dozen left
: in ratio to the total impulse of the engine, G or H Boostglider, Ditto for
: Heliocopter, etc.

since NAR has 'F' streamer...maybe TRA could have a 'K' streamer.

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by Xiaoyi Eve Zhan » Sun, 20 Nov 1994 22:24:44


As a member of both organizations, I'm not sure I'd like to see a merger
into a monolith. This hobby/pastime/lifestyle (Sorry Bob :) is evolving,
and the process will be faster if it goes in more than one direction at
once. Cooperation is mandatory in the current regulatory environment,
but IMHO, so is redundancy :(

-Larry C.

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by Dave=Funk%Comm=Prod%PCPD=.. » Mon, 21 Nov 1994 07:28:28


Quote:
>    5)  The range of rockets launched at meets would increase
>    even futher.  One could imagine a NARAM under the new
>    organization - launches of everything from 1/4 A's to
>    staged, clustered air started K's.  Bigger event, more
>    of a media attraction, more press for the hobby.

Large, staged, clustered, K's and higher, high power meets are best if
the only audience is the actual flyers.  All that's needed is lots of media
attention on, say, something like the tire deflating incident.  

It's a good idea, but not yet.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+   David Funk                            The opinions and information   +
+   TRA# 1462                             stated here are mine and not   +
+   NAR# 54612                            those of my employer.          +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 
 
 

NAR - TRA Merger?

Post by J A Stephen Viggia » Tue, 22 Nov 1994 01:01:52



Quote:
>    As I step into my firefighters' outfit courtesy the
>    FDNY...

One of New York's Bravest, eh?

Quote:
>    2)  Both groups, if joined together, would not have to
>    give up their autonomy over their parts of the hobby.

The NAR's part of the hobby covers everything from 1/4A to K. TRA's is
*at least* from H on up. There's considerable overlap.

Quote:
>    Such a merger, should it occur, would see the Tripoli
>    leadership keeping sway over the High Powered
>    activities, while the NAR would deal with lower powered
>    rockets.

This is based on an anachronistic view of the NAR. It is a comprehensive
organization for rocket hobbiests.

--
Having fun at NARAM-37 should be easier than pronouncing "Geneseo".
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