Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by SplashPattern.Com - Dav » Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:28:28



OK folks....

  While I've never played around with XML and am not impressed with what I
do know of it (at least, for this application), I conceed that the pro-XML
army vastly outnumbers the anti-XMLers.  So, I've thrown together a crude
attempt at an XML file.  I know there are no doubt formating problems as
this is my first attempt.  I'm not interested in hearing how stupid I am for
not knowing XML like all the other compugeeks.  What I am interested in is
your opinions on the data present.  More to the point, did I miss anything?
Remember, this is intended to be a motor file format suitable for ALL hobby
rocketry applications.

<!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-->
<!-- Universal Motor File
       -->
<!-- Version:
       -->
<!-- Description:  This file format is an attempt to create a file
rmat   -->
<!--  that can serve as a standard for all reasonable hobby
y        -->
<!--  applications.  Copyrights are jointly owned by Hall
ting,       -->
<!--  Apogee Components, and Paul Fossey.  Copyrights ownership
    -->
<!--  however, retained only as a means to maintain some sort of
uiding   -->
<!--  authority" over the format and are not retained in an effort
   -->
<!--  limit distribution.  In other words, feel free to use this format
for -->
<!--  any and all purposes, public, private and commercial.   But
ase    -->
<!--  do not add any tags without first consulting with one of the
ee    -->
<!--  previously mentioned
          -->
<!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-->
<!-- Author/Date of Revision:  David Hall, 25 July
     -->
<!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-->
<!-- NOTICE:  This format is currently under development.  This file
    -->
<!--  or may not be compatable with the format finally decided
     -->
<!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-->
<?xml version="1.0" standalone='yes'?>

<Motor>

<Administrative>
  <Manufacturer>       </Manufacturer>
  <Model>              </Model>
  <Type>               </Type>          <!-- solid/liquid/hybred -->
  <RevisionDate>       </RevisionDate>
  <Author>             </Author>
  <AuthorContact>      </AuthorContact>
  <Units>              </Units>         <!-- m/kg/s or slug/ft/s -->
</Administrative>

<MassProperties>
  <LaunchMass>         </LaunchMass>
  <NominalCG>          </NominalCG>
  <Length>             </Length>
  <Diameter>           </Diameter>
  <MassFraction>       </MassFraction>
  <VolumetricLoading>  </VolumetricLoading>
  <MassVsTime>         </MassVsTime>
  <CGVsTime>           </CGVsTime>
  <CGVsMass>           </CGVsMass>
  <Ixx>                </Ixx>
  <Ixy>                </Ixy>
  <Ixz>                </Ixz>
  <Iyy>                </Iyy>
  <Iyz>                </Iyz>
  <Izz>                </Izz>
  <IxxVsTime>          </IxxVsTime>
  <IxyVsTime>          </IxyVsTime>
  <IxzVsTime>          </IxzVsTime>
  <IyyVsTime>          </IyyVsTime>
  <IyzVsTime>          </IyzVsTime>
  <IzzVsTime>          </IzzVsTime>
  <IxxVsMass>          </IxxVsMass>
  <IxyVsMass>          </IxyVsMass>
  <IxzVsMass>          </IxzVsMass>
  <IyyVsMass>          </IyyVsMass>
  <IyzVsMass>          </IyzVsMass>
  <IzzVsMass>          </IzzVsMass>
</MassProperties >

<CombustionChamber>
  <Design>             </Design>
  <Mass>               </Mass>
  <CG>                 </CG>
  <Length>             </Length>
  <OD>                 </OD>
  <ID>                 </ID>
  <WallThickness>      </WallThickness>
  <Material>           </Material>
</CombustionChamber>

<Nozzle>
  <Design>             </Design>
  <Mass>               </Mass>
  <CG>                 </CG>
  <Length>             </Length>
  <ExitDiam>           </ExitDiam>
  <ThroatDiam>         </ThroatDiam>
  <Efficiency>         </Efficiency>
  <AblationRate>       </AblationRate>
  <Material>           </Material>
</Nozzle>

<PropellantGrain>
  <Design>             </Design>
  <Type>               </Type>             <!-- APCP, Candy, etc. -->
  <Mass>               </Mass>
  <CG>                 </CG>
  <Length>             </Length>
  <OD>                 </OD>
  <CoreArea>           </CoreArea>
  <WebThickness>       </WebThickness>
  <NumberOfGrains>     </NumberOfGrains>
  <PropellantName>     </PropellantName>   <!-- White Lightning, etc. -->

  <BurnRate>           </BurnRate>         <!-- average -->
  <BurnRateCoef>       </BurnRateCoef>
  <BurnRateExp>        </BurnRateExp>
  <BurnAreaVsMass>     </BurnAreaVsMass>
  <BurnAreaVsTime>     </BurnAreaVsTime>
</PropellantGrain>

<Oxidizer>
  <Design>             </Design>
  <Type>               </Type>           <!-- Nitrous, H2O2, etc. -->
  <Mass>               </Mass>
  <PresVsTime>         </PresVsTime>
  <PresVsMass>         </PresVsMass>
  <Tank>
    <Mass>             </Mass>
    <CG>               </CG>
    <Length>           </Length>
    <OD>               </OD>
    <ID>               </ID>
    <WallThickness>    </WallThickness>
    <Rupture>          </Rupture>
    <Material>         </Material>
  </Tank>
</Oxidizer>

<Fuel>
  <Design>             </Design>
  <Type>               </Type>           <!-- Kerosene, Propane, etc. -->
  <Mass>               </Mass>
  <PresVsTime>         </PresVsTime>
  <PresVsMass>         </PresVsMass>
  <Tank>
    <Mass>             </Mass>
    <CG>               </CG>
    <Length>           </Length>
    <OD>               </OD>
    <ID>               </ID>
    <WallThickness>    </WallThickness>
    <Rupture>          </Rupture>
    <Material>         </Material>
  </Tank>
</Fuel>

<TestData>
  <Administrative>
    <Date>               </Date>
    <TestNum>            </TestNum>
    <LoadCell>           </LoadCell>
    <LoadCellAccuracy>   </LoadCellAccuracy>
    <TransducerAccuracy> </TransducerAccuracy>
    <NameOfTester>       </NameOfTester>
    <TesterContact>      </TesterContact>
  </Administrative>
  <Barometric>         </Barometric>
  <BurnTime>           </BurnTime>
  <ActionTime>         </ActionTime>
  <AverageThrust>      </AverageThrust>
  <TotalImpulse>       </TotalImpulse>
  <ThrustVsTime>       </ThrustVsTime>
  <ThrustVsPressure>   </ThrustVsPressure>
  <ThrottleVsTime>     </ThrottleVsTime>
  <PressureVsThrottle> </PressureVsThrottle>
</TestData>

<VacuumData>
  <TotalImpulse>       </TotalImpulse>
  <Impulse1Sigma>      </Impulse1Sigma>
  <Isp>                </Isp>
  <MinThrottle>        </MinThrottle>
  <MaxThrottle>        </MaxThrottle>
  <IspVsTime>          </IspVsTime>
  <IspVsMass>          </IspVsMass>
  <IspVsPressure>      </IspVsPressure>
  <ThrustVsTime>       </ThrustVsTime>
  <ThrustVsMass>       </ThrustVsMass>
  <ThrustVsPressure>   </ThrustVsPressure>
  <PressureVsTime>     </PressureVsTime>
  <PressureVsMass>     </PressureVsMass>
</VacuumData>

<SeaLevelData>
  <TotalImpulse>       </TotalImpulse>
  <Impulse1Sigma>      </Impulse1Sigma>
  <Isp>                </Isp>
  <MinThrottle>        </MinThrottle>
  <MaxThrottle>        </MaxThrottle>
  <IspVsTime>          </IspVsTime>
  <IspVsMass>          </IspVsMass>
  <IspVsPressure>      </IspVsPressure>
  <ThrustVsTime>       </ThrustVsTime>
  <ThrustVsMass>       </ThrustVsMass>
  <ThrustVsPressure>   </ThrustVsPressure>
  <PressureVsTime>     </PressureVsTime>
  <PressureVsMass>     </PressureVsMass>
</SeaLevelData>

</Motor>

--
David Hall
http://www1.iwvisp.com/thehalls
http://splashpattern.com

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by Jerry Irvin » Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:51:34




Quote:
> OK folks....

>   While I've never played around with XML and am not impressed with what I
> do know of it (at least, for this application), I conceed that the pro-XML
> army vastly outnumbers the anti-XMLers.  So, I've thrown together a crude
> attempt at an XML file.  I know there are no doubt formating problems as
> this is my first attempt.  I'm not interested in hearing how stupid I am for
> not knowing XML like all the other compugeeks.  What I am interested in is
> your opinions on the data present.  More to the point, did I miss anything?
> Remember, this is intended to be a motor file format suitable for ALL hobby
> rocketry applications.

> <!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -->
> <!-- Universal Motor File
>        -->
> <!-- Version:
>        -->
> <!-- Description:  This file format is an attempt to create a file
> rmat   -->
> <!--  that can serve as a standard for all reasonable hobby
> y        -->
> <!--  applications.  Copyrights are jointly owned by Hall
> ting,       -->
> <!--  Apogee Components, and Paul Fossey.  Copyrights ownership
>     -->
> <!--  however, retained only as a means to maintain some sort of
> uiding   -->
> <!--  authority" over the format and are not retained in an effort
>    -->
> <!--  limit distribution.  In other words, feel free to use this format
> for -->
> <!--  any and all purposes, public, private and commercial.   But
> ase    -->
> <!--  do not add any tags without first consulting with one of the
> ee    -->
> <!--  previously mentioned
>           -->
> <!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -->
> <!-- Author/Date of Revision:  David Hall, 25 July
>      -->
> <!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -->
> <!-- NOTICE:  This format is currently under development.  This file
>     -->
> <!--  or may not be compatable with the format finally decided
>      -->
> <!-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -->
> <?xml version="1.0" standalone='yes'?>

> <Motor>

> <Administrative>
>   <Manufacturer>       </Manufacturer>
>   <Model>              </Model>
>   <Type>               </Type>          <!-- solid/liquid/hybred -->
>   <RevisionDate>       </RevisionDate>
>   <Author>             </Author>
>   <AuthorContact>      </AuthorContact>
>   <Units>              </Units>         <!-- m/kg/s or slug/ft/s -->
> </Administrative>

> <MassProperties>
>   <LaunchMass>         </LaunchMass>
>   <NominalCG>          </NominalCG>
>   <Length>             </Length>
>   <Diameter>           </Diameter>
>   <MassFraction>       </MassFraction>
>   <VolumetricLoading>  </VolumetricLoading>
>   <MassVsTime>         </MassVsTime>
>   <CGVsTime>           </CGVsTime>
>   <CGVsMass>           </CGVsMass>
>   <Ixx>                </Ixx>
>   <Ixy>                </Ixy>
>   <Ixz>                </Ixz>
>   <Iyy>                </Iyy>
>   <Iyz>                </Iyz>
>   <Izz>                </Izz>
>   <IxxVsTime>          </IxxVsTime>
>   <IxyVsTime>          </IxyVsTime>
>   <IxzVsTime>          </IxzVsTime>
>   <IyyVsTime>          </IyyVsTime>
>   <IyzVsTime>          </IyzVsTime>
>   <IzzVsTime>          </IzzVsTime>
>   <IxxVsMass>          </IxxVsMass>
>   <IxyVsMass>          </IxyVsMass>
>   <IxzVsMass>          </IxzVsMass>
>   <IyyVsMass>          </IyyVsMass>
>   <IyzVsMass>          </IyzVsMass>
>   <IzzVsMass>          </IzzVsMass>
> </MassProperties >

> <CombustionChamber>
>   <Design>             </Design>
>   <Mass>               </Mass>
>   <CG>                 </CG>
>   <Length>             </Length>
>   <OD>                 </OD>
>   <ID>                 </ID>
>   <WallThickness>      </WallThickness>
>   <Material>           </Material>

retention method

Quote:
> </CombustionChamber>

> <Nozzle>
>   <Design>             </Design>
>   <Mass>               </Mass>
>   <CG>                 </CG>
>   <Length>             </Length>
>   <ExitDiam>           </ExitDiam>
>   <ThroatDiam>         </ThroatDiam>
>   <Efficiency>         </Efficiency>
>   <AblationRate>       </AblationRate>
>   <Material>           </Material>

sealing method

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> </Nozzle>

> <PropellantGrain>
>   <Design>             </Design>
>   <Type>               </Type>             <!-- APCP, Candy, etc. -->
>   <Mass>               </Mass>
>   <CG>                 </CG>
>   <Length>             </Length>
>   <OD>                 </OD>
>   <CoreArea>           </CoreArea>
>   <WebThickness>       </WebThickness>
>   <NumberOfGrains>     </NumberOfGrains>
>   <PropellantName>     </PropellantName>   <!-- White Lightning, etc. -->

>   <BurnRate>           </BurnRate>         <!-- average -->
>   <BurnRateCoef>       </BurnRateCoef>
>   <BurnRateExp>        </BurnRateExp>
>   <BurnAreaVsMass>     </BurnAreaVsMass>
>   <BurnAreaVsTime>     </BurnAreaVsTime>

what about c-slot length width
dgrain depth
starcore ID OD equiv, exact shape

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> </PropellantGrain>

> <Oxidizer>
>   <Design>             </Design>
>   <Type>               </Type>           <!-- Nitrous, H2O2, etc. -->
>   <Mass>               </Mass>
>   <PresVsTime>         </PresVsTime>
>   <PresVsMass>         </PresVsMass>
>   <Tank>
>     <Mass>             </Mass>
>     <CG>               </CG>
>     <Length>           </Length>
>     <OD>               </OD>
>     <ID>               </ID>
>     <WallThickness>    </WallThickness>
>     <Rupture>          </Rupture>
>     <Material>         </Material>

min size
max size
ave size
size breakdown

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>   </Tank>
> </Oxidizer>

> <Fuel>
>   <Design>             </Design>
>   <Type>               </Type>           <!-- Kerosene, Propane, etc. -->
>   <Mass>               </Mass>
>   <PresVsTime>         </PresVsTime>
>   <PresVsMass>         </PresVsMass>
>   <Tank>
>     <Mass>             </Mass>
>     <CG>               </CG>
>     <Length>           </Length>
>     <OD>               </OD>
>     <ID>               </ID>
>     <WallThickness>    </WallThickness>
>     <Rupture>          </Rupture>
>     <Material>         </Material>

plasticizer %
additive %

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>   </Tank>
> </Fuel>

> <TestData>
>   <Administrative>
>     <Date>               </Date>
>     <TestNum>            </TestNum>
>     <LoadCell>           </LoadCell>
>     <LoadCellAccuracy>   </LoadCellAccuracy>
>     <TransducerAccuracy> </TransducerAccuracy>
>     <NameOfTester>       </NameOfTester>
>     <TesterContact>      </TesterContact>
>   </Administrative>
>   <Barometric>         </Barometric>
>   <BurnTime>           </BurnTime>
>   <ActionTime>         </ActionTime>
>   <AverageThrust>      </AverageThrust>
>   <TotalImpulse>       </TotalImpulse>
>   <ThrustVsTime>       </ThrustVsTime>
>   <ThrustVsPressure>   </ThrustVsPressure>
>   <ThrottleVsTime>     </ThrottleVsTime>
>   <PressureVsThrottle> </PressureVsThrottle>
> </TestData>

> <VacuumData>
>   <TotalImpulse>       </TotalImpulse>
>   <Impulse1Sigma>      </Impulse1Sigma>
>   <Isp>                </Isp>
>   <MinThrottle>        </MinThrottle>
>   <MaxThrottle>        </MaxThrottle>
>   <IspVsTime>          </IspVsTime>
>   <IspVsMass>          </IspVsMass>
>   <IspVsPressure>      </IspVsPressure>
>   <ThrustVsTime>       </ThrustVsTime>
>   <ThrustVsMass>       </ThrustVsMass>
>   <ThrustVsPressure>   </ThrustVsPressure>
>   <PressureVsTime>     </PressureVsTime>
>   <PressureVsMass>     </PressureVsMass>
> </VacuumData>

> <SeaLevelData>
>   <TotalImpulse>       </TotalImpulse>
>   <Impulse1Sigma>      </Impulse1Sigma>
>   <Isp>                </Isp>
>   <MinThrottle>        </MinThrottle>
>   <MaxThrottle>        </MaxThrottle>
>   <IspVsTime>          </IspVsTime>
>   <IspVsMass>          </IspVsMass>
>   <IspVsPressure>      </IspVsPressure>
>   <ThrustVsTime>       </ThrustVsTime>
>   <ThrustVsMass>       </ThrustVsMass>
>   <ThrustVsPressure>   </ThrustVsPressure>
>   <PressureVsTime>     </PressureVsTime>
>   <PressureVsMass>     </PressureVsMass>
> </SeaLevelData>

> </Motor>

> --
> David Hall
> http://www1.iwvisp.com/thehalls
> http://splashpattern.com

I have a global comment.

This seems about appropeiate for a 6DOF program but for a 2D or 3D sim
this is so major gross overkill and few fields ahev common sense
defaults.

Bad idea for general consumers.

Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by SplashPattern.Com - Dav » Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:26:26


Quote:
> > <CombustionChamber>
> retention method

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a property of the vehicle, not the
motor?  No way for a manufacturer to ever know that.

Quote:
> > <Nozzle>
> sealing method

Ya lost me.  Is there any other way than O-rings?

Quote:
> > <PropellantGrain>
> what about c-slot length width
> dgrain depth
> starcore ID OD equiv, exact shape

Hmmmm.... quite possible.

Quote:
> > <Oxidizer>
> min size
> max size
> ave size
> size breakdown

Huh?  What in the hell would min/max/avg size mean when we're discussing
liquid oxidizers?  Or did you want to put that in the propellant grain area?

Quote:
> >   </Tank>
> > <Fuel>
> plasticizer %
> additive %

Ditto.

Quote:
> This seems about appropeiate for a 6DOF program but for a 2D or 3D sim
> this is so major gross overkill and few fields ahev common sense
> defaults.

Nobody said that all fields would be required in all files.  Quite the
opposite (You'll note that way up at the top there was a flag for
solid/liquid/hybred motor...obviously a solid motor isn't going to have much
use for the entire (liquid) fuel block!).  The point is that the fields are
*available and pre-defined*.  Don't have/need the data?  Fine, don't include
it in the file.  That way, sims that don't need it don't need to worry about
it and sims that do need it will have ready access to it.  The point is that
the format should be useful for everything from the smallest Estes motor to
a CATS contender and beyond and that same file would be useful for ANY
simulation package that supported the file format - regardless of how simple
or detailed that simulation may be.

Note:  Regarding solid propellant formuation data.  There are too many
potential variables.  My thoughts are that the propellant name block should
suffice to tell you what's in it as all performance data is included (or did
I forget something?).

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by Bob » Sat, 27 Jul 2002 21:15:03


Quote:

> OK folks....

>   While I've never played around with XML and am not impressed with what I
> do know of it (at least, for this application), I conceed that the pro-XML
> army vastly outnumbers the anti-XMLers.  

XML has uses in any application, you just need to work out how. Personally
I think it had great uses in an application like this.

Quote:
>   <Type>               </Type>          <!-- solid/liquid/hybred -->

What about the ART Works Tri-brid...?

Personally I'd use attributes rather than cdata to specify stuff, so you'd
be able to type check the values to make sure they are correct. Obvisouly
this might not be needed for all the information required, but for essential
information it would be an advantage.

--
bob [at] bobarnott [dot] com              http://www.bobarnott.com/rocketry/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream
 of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow."
                                                           -- Robert Goddard

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by Jerry Irvin » Sat, 27 Jul 2002 23:03:01




Quote:
> > > <CombustionChamber>
> > retention method

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a property of the vehicle, not the
> motor?  No way for a manufacturer to ever know that.

threads, snap rings, bolts

Quote:
> > > <Oxidizer>
> > min size
> > max size
> > ave size
> > size breakdown

> Huh?  What in the hell would min/max/avg size mean when we're discussing
> liquid oxidizers?  Or did you want to put that in the propellant grain area?

Are we only discussing liquid oxididers?  I got the impression this data
file could apply to liquids, hybrids, solids.  Solid and hybrids can
sertainly have a wide range of oxidizers and relative particle sizes,

Quote:
> it in the file.  That way, sims that don't need it don't need to worry about
> it and sims that do need it will have ready access to it.  The point is that

But if it is a "standard file format" where omly needed items or
availble items are added then if you are an Am/Ex guy making your own
motors you are going to put your solid fuel parameters in there so an
outside program can do a pep run and estimate ballistic charts. Maybe
you are not programing that code but this standard file format should
suport it.

Quote:
> the format should be useful for everything from the smallest Estes motor to
> a CATS contender and beyond and that same file would be useful for ANY
> simulation package that supported the file format - regardless of how simple
> or detailed that simulation may be.

> Note:  Regarding solid propellant formuation data.  There are too many
> potential variables.  My thoughts are that the propellant name block should
> suffice to tell you what's in it as all performance data is included (or did
> I forget something?).

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.
 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by Leonard Fehsken » Sun, 28 Jul 2002 01:35:19




Quote:
>> > <Nozzle>
>> sealing method

> Ya lost me.  Is there any other way than O-rings?

Hot melt glue?

len.

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by Jerry Irvin » Sun, 28 Jul 2002 01:39:13




Quote:


> >> > <Nozzle>
> >> sealing method

> > Ya lost me.  Is there any other way than O-rings?

> Hot melt glue?

> len.

Estes BP uses "swedge"

Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by Mfreptil » Sun, 28 Jul 2002 05:00:34


Quote:
>> Ya lost me.  Is there any other way than O-rings?

Epoxy or RTV.

Mike F.

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by SplashPattern.Com - Dav » Sun, 28 Jul 2002 07:58:07


Quote:
> > Huh?  What in the hell would min/max/avg size mean when we're discussing
> > liquid oxidizers?  Or did you want to put that in the propellant grain
area?

> Are we only discussing liquid oxididers?  I got the impression this data
> file could apply to liquids, hybrids, solids.  Solid and hybrids can
> sertainly have a wide range of oxidizers and relative particle sizes,

Solid oxidizers go under the heading of "propellant".  After all, at the
launch pad there are only three potential energetics:  solid propellant,
liquid oxidizer, liquid fuel.  Solid oxidizers have already been
incorporated into propellant and no longer really exist from a sim point of
view anymore...at least not in any way that's going to show up.

Quote:
> But if it is a "standard file format" where omly needed items or
> availble items are added then if you are an Am/Ex guy making your own
> motors you are going to put your solid fuel parameters in there so an
> outside program can do a pep run and estimate ballistic charts. Maybe
> you are not programing that code but this standard file format should
> suport it.

Oh, please, Jerry!  Show me one simulation that assumes that you don't know
basic propellant data *long before* you make your motor.  If you want to
make a new file format for PEP and other combustion codes, knock yourself
out.  But you're not going to find anything beyond basic classification
stuff in any motor standard that I'm involved in.  Hell, you don't find the
level of detail you're asking for in the CPIA handbooks(*)!

(*) CPIA = Chemical Propulsion Industry Alliance (or something like that).
They put out books that are thousands of pages long that detail every rocket
motor in the US military and NASA arsenals.

 
 
 

Proposed New Motor Format (Was: New Motor Format)

Post by Jerry Irvin » Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:09:48




Quote:
> > > Huh?  What in the hell would min/max/avg size mean when we're discussing
> > > liquid oxidizers?  Or did you want to put that in the propellant grain
> area?

> > Are we only discussing liquid oxididers?  I got the impression this data
> > file could apply to liquids, hybrids, solids.  Solid and hybrids can
> > sertainly have a wide range of oxidizers and relative particle sizes,

> Solid oxidizers go under the heading of "propellant".  After all, at the
> launch pad there are only three potential energetics:  solid propellant,
> liquid oxidizer, liquid fuel.  Solid oxidizers have already been
> incorporated into propellant and no longer really exist from a sim point of
> view anymore...at least not in any way that's going to show up.

> > But if it is a "standard file format" where omly needed items or
> > availble items are added then if you are an Am/Ex guy making your own
> > motors you are going to put your solid fuel parameters in there so an
> > outside program can do a pep run and estimate ballistic charts. Maybe
> > you are not programing that code but this standard file format should
> > suport it.

> Oh, please, Jerry!  Show me one simulation that assumes that you don't know
> basic propellant data *long before* you make your motor.  If you want to
> make a new file format for PEP and other combustion codes, knock yourself
> out.  But you're not going to find anything beyond basic classification
> stuff in any motor standard that I'm involved in.  Hell, you don't find the
> level of detail you're asking for in the CPIA handbooks(*)!

> (*) CPIA = Chemical Propulsion Industry Alliance (or something like that).
> They put out books that are thousands of pages long that detail every rocket
> motor in the US military and NASA arsenals.

You were looking for input and I was giving it.  Reject it if you want.

But "EX" guys these days thing in terms of propellant formula similarly
to airframe parts.

If you prefer I'll stop posting to this thread entirely.

Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.