Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by smorlo » Mon, 09 Oct 2000 04:00:00



Could someone please explain the difference between upper stage and
single stage engines?  Is there a good online source that explains this
and other question for new hobbyists?

Steve

 
 
 

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by Andy Waddel » Mon, 09 Oct 2000 04:00:00


Steve, the only difference is in the delay time. An engine such as a C6-7 is
classified as an upper stage (as opposed to, say, a C6-3, which would be
called a single stage) simply because it is very likely that no rocket will
be able to use such a very long delay time as 7 seconds unless that
particular engine is in an upper stage. The engines themselves are
absolutely identical in construction and operation, it's just the delay time
that differs.

--
Andrew D. Waddell
PML Online Support Rep
TRA 2043 L2/NAR 52875 L2

PML: www.publicmissiles.com

Quote:

> Could someone please explain the difference between upper stage and
> single stage engines?  Is there a good online source that explains this
> and other question for new hobbyists?

> Steve


 
 
 

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by Andy Waddel » Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:48:30


Steve, also go to www.rocketryonline.com and look in the InfoCentral
section. There's lots of good information there (and on Rocketry Online in
general) for rocketeers. The FAQs will likely especially help you out.

--
Andrew D. Waddell
PML Online Support Rep
TRA 2043 L2/NAR 52875 L2

PML: www.publicmissiles.com

Quote:

> Could someone please explain the difference between upper stage and
> single stage engines?  Is there a good online source that explains this
> and other question for new hobbyists?

> Steve

 
 
 

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by The Silent Observe » Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:09:55


Quote:

> simply because it is very likely that no rocket will
> be able to use such a very long delay time as 7 seconds unless that
> particular engine is in an upper stage.

You obviously haven't flown a C motor in an Alpha or Wizard, or an A in
a Ninja, or anything at all in a Mosquito.  In fact, even my BT-60 based
Astron Cobra requires upper stage motors (though it burns three of them
at a time).

--
Some of their knowledge is corrupt, and inaccurate, being gleaned from
all manner of sources.  But like us, they are wizards too.
                                                    -- Jaldis the Blind

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages                http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
Telescope Pages            http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by Andy Waddel » Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:37:22


Actually, Donald, I have flown a C in an Alpha (though I admit I've never
flown a Wizard or Ninja) and have flown (and lost (hasn't everyone?)) a
Mosquito. I still stand by my original post as a reasonable explanation to
an admitted newbie of the difference between an upper stage and single stage
engine. Sure, there's exceptions to what I said, but isn't it pretty much
the difference for most cases? I think so...

Rather than saying I haven't gotten it right, spend the posting time
explaining why you think I'm wrong (or the exception to the general rule I
stated) if you feel my post wasn't correct. It will help Steve the original
poster more that way.
--
Andrew D. Waddell
PML Online Support Rep
TRA 2043 L2/NAR 52875 L2

PML: www.publicmissiles.com


Quote:

> > simply because it is very likely that no rocket will
> > be able to use such a very long delay time as 7 seconds unless that
> > particular engine is in an upper stage.

> You obviously haven't flown a C motor in an Alpha or Wizard, or an A in
> a Ninja, or anything at all in a Mosquito.  In fact, even my BT-60 based
> Astron Cobra requires upper stage motors (though it burns three of them
> at a time).

> --
> Some of their knowledge is corrupt, and inaccurate, being gleaned from
> all manner of sources.  But like us, they are wizards too.
>                                                     -- Jaldis the Blind

> Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
> Rocket Pages                http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
> Telescope Pages            http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm

> Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
> and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by The Silent Observe » Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> Rather than saying I haven't gotten it right, spend the posting time
> explaining why you think I'm wrong (or the exception to the general rule I
> stated) if you feel my post wasn't correct. It will help Steve the original
> poster more that way.

Okay, how about this:

In addition to Andrew's statement, motors that are designated as "upper
stage" are commonly used in a class of higher performance models,
typically those where the model is a very low drag design and will tend
to coast longer than the norm.  Thus, in a rocket the size of a Big
Bertha, a C6-7 would be usable only as an upper stage (the Bertha flies
on a C6-5 normally), but in a rocket like an Alpha, a C6-7 has none too
long a delay.  One can see this phenomenon in all motor sizes, too -- a
Big Bertha built with a D motor mount gives better flights on a D12-7
than on a D12-5, and a Ninja flies better on an 1/2A3-4T than a
1/2A3-2T.

--
Some of their knowledge is corrupt, and inaccurate, being gleaned from
all manner of sources.  But like us, they are wizards too.
                                                    -- Jaldis the Blind

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages                http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
Telescope Pages            http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by Peter Cl » Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
>Could someone please explain the difference between upper stage and
>single stage engines?

Just delay time, as Andrew stated.  And as others have said, many small,
high-performance rockets use "upper stage" engines as single stage.
http://hometown.aol.com/peterlynnc/rockets.html  has a group of pages on
staging and clustering that should help.

Peter W. Clay NAR 18619 SR L1 OREO 555

 
 
 

Upper stage vs. single stage engines

Post by Fred Shecte » Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:00:00


http://www.ehobbies.com

go to the Rocketry 101 section for a simple beginners guide.

For more in depth info, there are many other sites, like http://www.nar.org

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117


Quote:

> Could someone please explain the difference between upper stage and
> single stage engines?  Is there a good online source that explains this
> and other question for new hobbyists?

> Steve