LOC Graduator...

LOC Graduator...

Post by Jeff Cowle » Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:31:27



My LOC Graduator says the recommended motors are : D12-3, E15-4, F50-9,
G40-10... I figured with RMS I should find the motor that comes closest to
these motors, and I figured the E164, F52-8 would do okay, but what about
the Gs??? There are G33-7, and G64-10... Which would be better???

--
- Jeff

NAR# 78230
Contemplating a level 1 cert.

Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/jgs321/

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Dave » Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:57:09


On Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:31:27 -0400, "Jeff Cowles"

Quote:

>My LOC Graduator says the recommended motors are : D12-3, E15-4, F50-9,
>G40-10... I figured with RMS I should find the motor that comes closest to
>these motors, and I figured the E164, F52-8 would do okay, but what about
>the Gs??? There are G33-7, and G64-10... Which would be better???

Both. Try them both and see which you like most. I would also suggest
you don't try flying that thing on a D12. I saw one a couple weeks ago
and it got maybe 100 feet off the ground. Ejection was maybe 50 feet
up. Too scary for that big of a rocket.

Dave

---


 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Jeff Cowle » Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:55:54


I wouldn't think of putting a D into it... LOL I just purchased some reloads
from Hobbylinc. An E16-4W, and 2 F-52-8T. (along with a pack of FirstFire jr
igniters in case the reloads come with C-heads) Actually I'm kinda worried
about the E, but I'm gonna use it for the first flight to get it's fins wet.
:-)

--
- Jeff

NAR# 78230
Contemplating a level 1 cert.

Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/jgs321/


Quote:
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:31:27 -0400, "Jeff Cowles"

> >My LOC Graduator says the recommended motors are : D12-3, E15-4, F50-9,
> >G40-10... I figured with RMS I should find the motor that comes closest
to
> >these motors, and I figured the E164, F52-8 would do okay, but what about
> >the Gs??? There are G33-7, and G64-10... Which would be better???

> Both. Try them both and see which you like most. I would also suggest
> you don't try flying that thing on a D12. I saw one a couple weeks ago
> and it got maybe 100 feet off the ground. Ejection was maybe 50 feet
> up. Too scary for that big of a rocket.

> Dave

> ---


 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Gene Costanz » Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:40:06


Jeff, here's a better list:
E30-4
F25-6
F50-6
G33-5 OR -7 (6 of one, ? dozen...)
G40-7
G80-7
G125-10

A Grad is flyable on an E15 but in windless conditions only. NEVER, as
Dave said, on a D12 (mine was about 15' up when it dumped the laundry).

The F52 makes for a nice first pass. It's gonna get some air, so make
sure your field is appropriate.

VERY nice flying rocket. Flies nice (stock) on an H238, too. (It's an
anemic H.)
--

Pardon me while I burst into flames...

METRA   BOD
TRA     #7017
NAR     #74503

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:07:00


Quote:

> My LOC Graduator says the recommended motors are : D12-3, E15-4, F50-9,
> G40-10... I figured with RMS I should find the motor that comes closest to
> these motors, and I figured the E164, F52-8 would do okay, but what about
> the Gs??? There are G33-7, and G64-10... Which would be better???

I'm trying to think of a certified 29mm E, F, or G that would NOT be a good
choice for the Graduator. I can't. Do pick the right delay, which for Es is
probably SHORT and Gs is probably MEDIUM, and for Fs somewhere in between.
ROCSIM or the like would be a good guide.

I've flown my Graduator and similar size and weight rockets on both D12-3
and D reloads. The D12 is a bit marginal, but works, unless you used a full
bottle of epoxy in the construction. The D13, D15, D21, D24, etc are better
choices, as they are closer to a full 20ns.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"

Kaplow Klips:   http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html (baffle too!)
NIRA:   http://www.nira.chicago.il.us  NAR:    http://www.nar.org/WhiteWash




 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Kevin Beeso » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:22:25


I fly my graduator exclusively on G64-7s. Makes for a very nice
flight. The 7 sec delay is just about perfect.

Quote:

>but what about  the Gs??? There are G33-7, and G64-10

--
Kevin Beeson
NAR L2
SSS (http://www.sssrocketry.org)

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by The Silent Observe » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:58:29


Quote:

> My LOC Graduator says the recommended motors are : D12-3, E15-4, F50-9,
> G40-10... I figured with RMS I should find the motor that comes closest to
> these motors, and I figured the E164, F52-8 would do okay, but what about
> the Gs??? There are G33-7, and G64-10... Which would be better???

The D15-4 reload is nearly a perfect replacement for the D12-3.  For the
E15-4, the E18-4 is the best choice for an RMS substitute -- both of
these fit the RMS 24/40 case, and will use the same 24 mm adapter you'd
use for the D12 and E15 single use motors.  I might also mention that
the E30-4 and E28-4 will also work nicely.  I'd avoid the E16; it's got
a bad reputation for slow thrust build up and bonus delays that have
trashed many an AT Initiator from a starter set.  The E23-5 would be a
better choice if you don't have a 24/40 motor.

For the larger motors, the F52-8 is a good sub for the F50-9, but the
F40-7 will also work well, and the G64-10 will be the best sub for the
G40-10 (but beware of losing the rocket and case on this very high
flight).  Again, the BJ propellant in the G33 is notorious for slow
starts; in addition, the G33 exceeds 62.5 g propellant, making it
technically an HPR motor requiring L1 cert and LEUP to buy and fly, and
LEUP and magazine to store, as well as requiring FAA notification even
if the liftoff mass of the rocket is under 454 g.

--
Some of their knowledge is corrupt, and inaccurate, being gleaned from
all manner of sources.  But like us, they are wizards too.
                                                    -- Jaldis the Blind

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages                http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
Telescope Pages            http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Jeff Cowle » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:16:10


I won't have to worry about notifications or waivers... There are no
suitable fields around here to fly anything like this, so the only place it
will meet air will be at NEFAR or SRA launches, and their fields are plenty
big enough. :-)

wRASP claims that the Graduator on an E16-4T will get to about 572 ft... The
speed does look kind of slow, but I'll just make sure to use one of the pads
with longer launch rods. Mine probably won't get that high because I built
it a little heavy.

--
- Jeff

NAR# 78230
Contemplating a level 1 cert.

Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/jgs321/



Quote:

> > My LOC Graduator says the recommended motors are : D12-3, E15-4, F50-9,
> > G40-10... I figured with RMS I should find the motor that comes closest
to
> > these motors, and I figured the E164, F52-8 would do okay, but what
about
> > the Gs??? There are G33-7, and G64-10... Which would be better???

> The D15-4 reload is nearly a perfect replacement for the D12-3.  For the
> E15-4, the E18-4 is the best choice for an RMS substitute -- both of
> these fit the RMS 24/40 case, and will use the same 24 mm adapter you'd
> use for the D12 and E15 single use motors.  I might also mention that
> the E30-4 and E28-4 will also work nicely.  I'd avoid the E16; it's got
> a bad reputation for slow thrust build up and bonus delays that have
> trashed many an AT Initiator from a starter set.  The E23-5 would be a
> better choice if you don't have a 24/40 motor.

> For the larger motors, the F52-8 is a good sub for the F50-9, but the
> F40-7 will also work well, and the G64-10 will be the best sub for the
> G40-10 (but beware of losing the rocket and case on this very high
> flight).  Again, the BJ propellant in the G33 is notorious for slow
> starts; in addition, the G33 exceeds 62.5 g propellant, making it
> technically an HPR motor requiring L1 cert and LEUP to buy and fly, and
> LEUP and magazine to store, as well as requiring FAA notification even
> if the liftoff mass of the rocket is under 454 g.

> --
> Some of their knowledge is corrupt, and inaccurate, being gleaned from
> all manner of sources.  But like us, they are wizards too.
>                                                     -- Jaldis the Blind

> Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
> Rocket Pages                http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
> Telescope Pages            http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm

> Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
> and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Gene Costanz » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:44:43


If you built it heavy, DON'T fly it on an E16. Not unless you want it
unintentionally rebuilt. Save the E16 for another rocket.

Fly it on a SU motor for its first pass, Jeff. Trust me...
--

Pardon me while I burst into flames...

METRA   BOD
TRA     #7017
NAR     #74503

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Kelo Waiv » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:58:34


Quote:
>If you built it heavy, DON'T fly it on an E16. Not unless you want it
>unintentionally rebuilt. Save the E16 for another rocket.

>Fly it on a SU motor for its first pass, Jeff. Trust me...

Good advice. I suggest an F20-4 Econojet for a first flight. Mine flies real
nice on these babies It's been modified with anti-zipper construction after a
bonus delay in an E16.

Kelo Waivio
NAR 72132 L1
IAR/FM 128
SMASH #500

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Gene Costanz » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:50:29


Good suggestion, Kelo. Grads rip REEEAAALLLL nice on G125's though. I
just 'finished' a 38mm Grad that is beging for an I211, maybe even an
I284. Fall RATS or DE/MD.
--

Pardon me while I burst into flames...

METRA   BOD
TRA     #7017
NAR     #74503

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Dave » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:19:43




Quote:
> For the larger motors, the F52-8 is a good sub for the F50-9, but the
> F40-7 will also work well, and the G64-10 will be the best sub for the
> G40-10 (but beware of losing the rocket and case on this very high
> flight).  Again, the BJ propellant in the G33 is notorious for slow
> starts; in addition, the G33 exceeds 62.5 g propellant, making it
> technically an HPR motor requiring L1 cert and LEUP to buy and fly,
and
> LEUP and magazine to store, as well as requiring FAA notification even
> if the liftoff mass of the rocket is under 454 g.

Uhh... 'scuse me Don, but the G33 is not an hpr motor. An hpr motor as
defined by NFPA 1127 is a motor that has a total impulse of 160 Ns or
greater or an average thrust of 80 N or greater; the G33 is neither.
And since the propellant is shipped in two separately-packaged grains,
it slips in under the same loophole that allows Easy-Access to exist.
No certification nor LEUP required. No argument on the point about FAA
notification being required, though ;-)

Dave

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Ron Zeppi » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:36:58


Like I mentioned when we met Gene...Kosdon I-800 (I-560) in a Graduator!!

Seen it...lived it...dropped Jaw first time I saw it!

Ron

Quote:

> Good suggestion, Kelo. Grads rip REEEAAALLLL nice on G125's though. I
> just 'finished' a 38mm Grad that is beging for an I211, maybe even an
> I284. Fall RATS or DE/MD.
> --

> Pardon me while I burst into flames...

> METRA   BOD
> TRA     #7017
> NAR     #74503

--
Ron Zeppin
Access Rocketry
http://www.accessrocketry.com
TRA# 6024
AHPRA
XRAA
 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Jeff Cowle » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:58:36


I weighed it after finally getting the epoxy (if you wanna call it that)
fillets sanded... 13.5 oz, so I added an extra half oz, and that's not
including paint though. After cleaning off the epoxy dust with some ***
I thought about giving it a quick primer coat to see just how sloppy the
fillets turn out, and then I remembered something... I hadn't put the launch
lug on yet!!! Glad I remembered it "before" I primed.

I think it'll be okay once I get the primer on, and fill in the funky spots
with a little spot putty... I won't need very much since I spent the whole
day sanding, and getting pretty decent results.

I'm going to use Rustolem Metallics paint on it. Cobalt Blue with the NC
Black Night Metallic. I actually wanted to do Apple Red Metallic with Gold
Chrome on the NC, but nobody around here seems to stock the Apple Red.

--
- Jeff

NAR# 78230
Contemplating a level 1 cert.

Homepage: http://www.FoundCollection.com/


Quote:
> If you built it heavy, DON'T fly it on an E16. Not unless you want it
> unintentionally rebuilt. Save the E16 for another rocket.

> Fly it on a SU motor for its first pass, Jeff. Trust me...
> --

> Pardon me while I burst into flames...

> METRA BOD
> TRA #7017
> NAR #74503

 
 
 

LOC Graduator...

Post by Dave » Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:29:05




Quote:
> I'm going to use Rustolem Metallics paint on it. Cobalt Blue with the
NC
> Black Night Metallic. I actually wanted to do Apple Red Metallic with
Gold
> Chrome on the NC, but nobody around here seems to stock the Apple Red.

I love that Rustoleum Metallics stuff. I painted my THOY Ibis with
Midnight Black, and it always gets lots of compliments.

http://mailman.thegeek.nu/~dahanson/rockets/my_rockets/mid_power/starlig
ht_000715.jpg
http://mailman.thegeek.nu/~dahanson/rockets/my_rockets/mid_power/starlig
ht_000819.jpg

(sorry for the wrapped lines, no direct links from my web page yet)

Dave

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.