LOC Graduator on a F-12

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Ron Hamm » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 02:00:48



What do you this of launching a Graduator on a F-12.
Will it be stable when it comes off the pad with a low thrust long
burn motor like this?
Is this Rocket stable with a D-12 it sayes it can on the package but
it dont look real good on Rocket Sim.
Ron
 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by DMellybel » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 02:51:25


I flew a Graduator on a D12, and it flew, barely.  I wouldn't do it again, and
I certainly wouldn't do it in ANY wind.

Don S.

 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 05:39:31


Quote:

> I flew a Graduator on a D12, and it flew, barely.  I wouldn't do it again, and
> I certainly wouldn't do it in ANY wind.

The D12 is not a valid comparison to an F12. The F12 is a BJ motor and takes
a LOT longer to get going than a BP motor. With a VERY LONG rod, the F12
might work, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Better to go with the F20 or F23 Econojet, or just about any of the
29/40-120 reloads. Or any of the non BJ reloads for the 24/40 casing.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
NIRA:   http://www.nira-rocketry.org    NAR:    http://www.nar.org

        26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
        Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/

        You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a
        reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about
        repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the
        struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard

 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by MODROCK » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 06:44:50


Quote:
>Is this Rocket stable with a D-12 it sayes it can on the package but
>it dont look real good on Rocket Sim.
>Ron

I am not sure why Loc recommends that their "Novice Kit Series" will fly on D12
motors. Aside from the Aura, I would not even try one of these on a D12. All of
these kits painted are just too heavy. However, the E18 and E28 24mm work
great. Of course the 29 mm motors work nicely. The F20 econojets are ideal in
these kits but I have never seen them recommended.

Joe A.
South Louisiana Rocketry #8

 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Stephe » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:34:12


Rocksim says that the speed off of even a 6 ft launch rod would not be
enough to achieve proper stability

--
Stephen Corban
NAR# 81338
Rocketeer's Motto - More than
happy to help anyone in rocketry

Quote:
> What do you this of launching a Graduator on a F-12.
> Will it be stable when it comes off the pad with a low thrust long
> burn motor like this?
> Is this Rocket stable with a D-12 it sayes it can on the package but
> it dont look real good on Rocket Sim.
> Ron

 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 09:26:04


Quote:

> I am not sure why Loc recommends that their "Novice Kit Series" will fly on D12
> motors. Aside from the Aura, I would not even try one of these on a D12. All of
> these kits painted are just too heavy. However, the E18 and E28 24mm work
> great. Of course the 29 mm motors work nicely. The F20 econojets are ideal in
> these kits but I have never seen them recommended.

I've flown the Graduator on a D12-3 twice. My log shows one flight was 55
seconds. Still, it is a bit low, and don't try it in wind.

To expand the envelope, I also tried it on an FSI D20-3, did about the same.

Both the D15-4 and D24-4 reloads work better, mainly because they are a full
10 ns instead of 15-16.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
NIRA:   http://www.nira-rocketry.org    NAR:    http://www.nar.org

        26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
        Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/

        Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one
        who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it
        but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are
        inevitably ruined. -- Patrick Henry, speech of June 5 1788

 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by RonHamme » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 13:29:23


Quote:
>Rocksim says that the speed off of even a 6 ft launch rod would not be
>enough to achieve proper stability

I know it would take some time to get stable but they do say it is ok with a
D12 and I get just about as long launch rod need with that.
BUT I will take everyone advise and use those F12 on some other rocket. Any
good sugestions?  
Ron
 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Jerry Irvin » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 13:45:47



Quote:

> >Rocksim says that the speed off of even a 6 ft launch rod would not be
> >enough to achieve proper stability

> I know it would take some time to get stable

No!  It takes time to get UNSTABLE.  The more time it has due to low
speeds the more likely it will perturb and BECOME unstable.

Quote:
> but they do say it is ok with a
> D12 and I get just about as long launch rod need with that.
> BUT I will take everyone advise and use those F12 on some other rocket. Any
> good sugestions?  
> Ron

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.
 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:11:47


Quote:

>>Rocksim says that the speed off of even a 6 ft launch rod would not be
>>enough to achieve proper stability

> I know it would take some time to get stable but they do say it is ok with a
> D12 and I get just about as long launch rod need with that.
> BUT I will take everyone advise and use those F12 on some other rocket. Any
> good sugestions?  

Something light weight. Under a pound. A Super Big Bertha, Optima, Maxi
Alpha, or even the new Executioner. MAYBE an old Silver Comet or 2.6" V2.
NOT the new 4" V2!!!  My Maxi Sprite (Sport Rocketry plan a couple years
ago) flies great on F12s and E11s. A converted Fat Boy (with nose
weight!!!).

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
NIRA:   http://www.nira-rocketry.org    NAR:    http://www.nar.org

        26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
        Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/

        Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of
        liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson

 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Jeff Gortatowsk » Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:52:59


Quote:
> NOT the new 4" V2!!!  

>    Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"

Apparently it's been some source of argument here, isn't everything<g>,
but at the last SCRA launch I saw a new Estes V2 launch successfully on
an Estes E9-4. Shread Vector asked me to mention that here on RMR. I
just forgot until your post reminded me. So there Shread, I mentioned
it. It was calm, no wind at the time of launch, with ejection just past
apogee IIRC. I think a 4ft or 5ft launch rod was employed. Shread will
know for sure.

Besh wishes
Jeff

 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Dari » Mon, 26 Aug 2002 04:49:59


Quote:

> I flew a Graduator on a D12, and it flew, barely.  I wouldn't do it again, and
> I certainly wouldn't do it in ANY wind.

> Don S.

For an interesting comparison, I once owned an NCR Phantom. One of the
recommended motors was, believe it or not, an AT F10-2. I flew it on
one & it "slowly" left the pad & started arching over. It was a good
thing the delay was correct because it was only about 10 feet above
the ground when the parachute came out. I'm not sure if it fully
deployed, but the rocket was undamaged, although abit of a ways
downfield. Truly a memorable flight. Mr. Darian Rachal
 
 
 

LOC Graduator on a F-12

Post by Jerry Irvin » Mon, 26 Aug 2002 05:30:22



Quote:



> > I flew a Graduator on a D12, and it flew, barely.  I wouldn't do it again,
> > and
> > I certainly wouldn't do it in ANY wind.

> > Don S.

> For an interesting comparison, I once owned an NCR Phantom. One of the
> recommended motors was, believe it or not, an AT F10-2. I flew it on
> one & it "slowly" left the pad & started arching over. It was a good
> thing the delay was correct because it was only about 10 feet above
> the ground when the parachute came out. I'm not sure if it fully
> deployed, but the rocket was undamaged, although abit of a ways
> downfield. Truly a memorable flight. Mr. Darian Rachal

NCR was notorious for recommending delays that ejected near the ground.  
I suppose they sold more kits that way.

Most rockets on this panet fly nicely on G60-8 or G30-4.

Herry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.