LOC Graduator

LOC Graduator

Post by mark frampto » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00



I received a surprise LOC Graduator for Fathers Day!  Hope I don't scare you
with the questions I have to ask.  :-)
This is the biggest I've gone beyond D12 and have personally never witnessed
a lauch with anything bigger.

I know I'm going to have to fire up the torch and build a new lauch pad. How
big of a blast area do I need with F50-9t and G80-10t?

As far as a beefed up ignition system....  I want to build my own and would
like to hear what you folks have done.

Also any personal experiences with a stock Graduator would be greatly
appreciated.

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Andy Dyckma » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00


I have a Legacy, which is kinda like the Graduator.

The pad doesn't need to be MUCH larger, because they're not too much heavier
than your average Estes D-powered rocket.  But better safe than sorry,
especially if you do go beyond the G.  I'm using a Mantis for my Legacy and
maybe even my Vulcanite.  GOtta see how it holds out.

Andy Dyckman
Chicago, IL

NAR# 61770


Quote:
> I received a surprise LOC Graduator for Fathers Day!  Hope I don't scare
you
> with the questions I have to ask.  :-)
> This is the biggest I've gone beyond D12 and have personally never
witnessed
> a lauch with anything bigger.

> I know I'm going to have to fire up the torch and build a new lauch pad.
How
> big of a blast area do I need with F50-9t and G80-10t?

> As far as a beefed up ignition system....  I want to build my own and
would
> like to hear what you folks have done.

> Also any personal experiences with a stock Graduator would be greatly
> appreciated.


 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Gene Costanz » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Don't fly it on a D12 as per the packaging. Ain't gonna fly purty.

Don't go by the delays on the packaging; they're overzealous. F25-/F50-6
and G80-7.

Can't fly it any ol' place, and certainly not with an F or G. Build 'er
nice and join a club. Can't beat the flying/building/etc. experience
from club comraderie.

My first mid-power rocket. Built a bit rough but flew like a champ, even
after a horizontal flat-spin down from 1500+',*** it in atree
twice, etc.

Nice looking and flying rocket. Good luck. Gets nice air on an H238,
too...

--
Pardon me while I burst into flames...

METRA   BOD
TRA     #7017
NAR     #74503

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Robert Huggin » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Mark,

The advice I received was to buy a third centering ring and notch it so it
could be used to strengthen the fin joints.  Also, epoxy 1/8" dowels along
side the fin tabs (inside the tube) to further strengthen the joints (I'm
using popsicle sticks instead of dowels).

This process, btw, means that you don't build the motor mount per the
instructions but attach the front centering ring, insert MM in body tube and
epoxy the front ring, attach fins, anchor front half of fins with dowels (or
whatever<g>), attach middle centering ring, anchor back half of fins, and
finally attach back centering ring.  I dry fit the back centering ring when
epoxying the front centering ring to keep the MM properly aligned while the
epoxy cured.

Oh yes, Kaplow Klips (or some variation).

Rob
--

You'll have to remove the nonsense from
my email address to use it...
****************


Quote:
> I received a surprise LOC Graduator for Fathers Day!  Hope I don't scare
you
> with the questions I have to ask.  :-)
> This is the biggest I've gone beyond D12 and have personally never
witnessed
> a lauch with anything bigger.

> I know I'm going to have to fire up the torch and build a new lauch pad.
How
> big of a blast area do I need with F50-9t and G80-10t?

> As far as a beefed up ignition system....  I want to build my own and
would
> like to hear what you folks have done.

> Also any personal experiences with a stock Graduator would be greatly
> appreciated.

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Mike Chryst » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


On Wed, 5 Jul 2000 16:49:37 -0500, "mark frampton"

Quote:

>I received a surprise LOC Graduator for Fathers Day!  Hope I don't scare you
>with the questions I have to ask.  :-)

<snipped merely for brevity>

Hi, Mark!

Just thought I'd chime in as well.  My Graduator has served me very
well; built carefully, she's a solid performer, and really rips on F
and G motors (I haven't worked up the guts to try her on an H yet; I'd
kind of like to get her back!).

Anyhow, all the other folks suggestions are very solid.  I added just
a few extra steps to mine.  To strengthen the fins, I cut a fin tab
extension of 1/8" ply, so it extends all the way to the motor mount
tube.  I also cut the original fin tab a bit deeper (ie. removed about
1/8" material from the root edge of the fin (not from the base of the
rather meager fin tab), so that the fin tab extends a bit futher into
the tube.  Glued on the tab extension, then ran 1/8" X 1/2" basswood
strips over the ***joint between the fin tab/tab extension, and
filleted all mating surfaces.  Yeah, probably overkill, but she's
really strong!  Did the 3 CR routine, etc.

BTW, also replaced the 18" stock chute with a 24"; seems to give a bit
more reasonable descent rate w/o excessive drift.  Instead of using
wadding, I went with a Pratt Heat Shield (perma-wadding).  Makes
prepping a little easier.

For the pad, I've used my Mantis for G flights, and it's only plastic.
I'm sure you can whip up something alot stronger (and cheaper!).

Hope this helped you out.  Good luck!

Mike

NAR #73286-SR L1 Insured

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Mark Brus » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
> Don't fly it on a D12 as per the packaging. Ain't gonna fly purty.

If you build it carefully, the Graduator flys well, but low on a D12-3.

(snip)

Quote:
> Gets nice air on an H238, too...

I've seen stock-built Graduators on H55's and H180's.

WOW! HOLY COW!

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Stefan Wimm » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

>I received a surprise LOC Graduator for Fathers Day!

A nice kit.

Quote:
>I know I'm going to have to fire up the torch and build a new lauch pad. How
>big of a blast area do I need with F50-9t and G80-10t?

The G35-4 Econojet is also a nice motor for the Grad.

For a CHAD launch pad have a look at my pages at
http://www.GeoCities.com/CapeCanaveral/lpad.html

HTH,
Stefan

--
Stefan Wimmer                        ADVA AG Optical Networking

WWW     http://www.cellware.de/      12489 Berlin, Germany

Visit my private Homepage:  Love, Electronics, Rockets, Fireworks!
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6368/

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by mark frampto » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Thanks for all the input! All very good info indeed!

I agree with everyone, looking at what is supplied, the fin assembly and
motor mount must be reinforced.  I fear that even a G80 would be
instrumental to disassemble it if extra intervention is not taken.

I know it's a bit of a rush but I need it done and flight ready in 3 weeks.
Herding the wife and kids out to my folks place in West Texas.  Flat, no
trees and 2000 acres, rocketry heaven!  We usually load up every rocket
we've got and hual them out there.  Last year our stock Mean Machine kept
the most of our attention.

thanks,
  mark

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Bob Kapl » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> Don't fly it on a D12 as per the packaging. Ain't gonna fly purty.

I flew my first one on both D12-3 and FSI D20-3. Low, but safe, and no
noticable difference between the two. The D15-4 or D24-4 reloads carried it
a bit higher.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"

Kaplow Klips:   http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html (baffle too!)
NIRA:           http://www.nira.chicago.il.us  NAR:    http://www.nar.org

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Gene Costanz » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Just to reiterate, when I flew mine on an H238, it was bone stock: no
interior strakes, didn't cut thru-the-wall/to the motor mount fins, etc.
The 3rd CR is a great addition. Aside from that, simply make sure your
epoxy joints are clean and solid and you're good to go.

A G80 is a kicker of a motor, no doubt, but I'm sure you'll be OK stock.
It is a NICE motor for this rocket. Don't discount the F50's fat rip,
though...

--
Pardon me while I burst into flames...

METRA   BOD
TRA     #7017
NAR     #74503

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Alex Merica » Sat, 08 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> I agree with everyone, looking at what is supplied, the fin assembly and
> motor mount must be reinforced.  I fear that even a G80 would be
> instrumental to disassemble it if extra intervention is not taken.

I regularly fly my LOC Forte on a G80.  My only modifications were a 3rd
centering ring and fiberglass cloth on the fillets and across the fin tabs
(inside of tube).  The Forte, although bigger, is very similar to the Grad
and other LOC kits in construction.  Impact damage (i.e. landing on concrete)
to the fins is more likely than sudden de-kiting under acceleration.

I really miss my Graduator.  My engine of choice was a G64 reload.  I lost
both the rocket and motor in a corn field outside of Quebec four years ago.
I walked all over that field but couldn't find it.  I still get sad when I
eat corn!  

--
Alex Mericas
NAR 62956 Level 2
President, Austin Area Rocketry Group

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Tom Kinde » Sun, 09 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Hi Mark,

Good luck with your Graduator.  I built mine pretty much stock and plenty of
epoxy.  White glue is marginal with F and G motors. F62's and G35's are my
favorites in it.

West Texas is a good place to fly (when it's not too windy).  You didn't say
if you are from Texas, but if you are, check out these URL's...

    http://www.eGroups.com/list/rocketry-austin

    http://www.egroups.com/list/rocketry-texas-hpr/

These are e-mail discussion groups. They both cover rocketry activity in
Texas (not just Austin) and you'll be able to find all the help and advice
you want there.  You can read all the posts you want without subscribing. If
you're from this area come out and fly with us...the more the merrier.

Regardless...I agree with one of the other posters on this thread...try to
find a club. It really is more fun in a group.

Fly high, fly safe
--
Tom Kindel   NW5B
NAR 40705 L1   TRA 6382 L2
Austin, TX.
"Modesty is for those who have no Talent"


Quote:
> Thanks for all the input! All very good info indeed!
> Herding the wife and kids out to my folks place in West Texas.  Flat, no
> trees and 2000 acres, rocketry heaven!

 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Ron Zeppi » Mon, 10 Jul 2000 04:00:00


This is essentially how Bruce Georgeson built his. Except he used a really long
29mm mount, and flys his exclusively on Kosdon I-800's...(I-560's). It's flown
about 8-10 times. Never shredded. Breaks Mach at about 150-200feet. It just
vanishes from the pad...then you look up and look for the tracking smoke!!

This will leave everyone speechless!!

Ron

--
Ron Zeppin
Access Rocketry
http://www.accessrocketry.com
TRA# 6024
AHPRA
XRAA

Quote:

> Mark,

> The advice I received was to buy a third centering ring and notch it so it
> could be used to strengthen the fin joints.  Also, epoxy 1/8" dowels along
> side the fin tabs (inside the tube) to further strengthen the joints (I'm
> using popsicle sticks instead of dowels).

> This process, btw, means that you don't build the motor mount per the
> instructions but attach the front centering ring, insert MM in body tube and
> epoxy the front ring, attach fins, anchor front half of fins with dowels (or
> whatever<g>), attach middle centering ring, anchor back half of fins, and
> finally attach back centering ring.  I dry fit the back centering ring when
> epoxying the front centering ring to keep the MM properly aligned while the
> epoxy cured.

> Oh yes, Kaplow Klips (or some variation).

> Rob
> --

> You'll have to remove the nonsense from
> my email address to use it...
> ****************



> > I received a surprise LOC Graduator for Fathers Day!  Hope I don't scare
> you
> > with the questions I have to ask.  :-)
> > This is the biggest I've gone beyond D12 and have personally never
> witnessed
> > a lauch with anything bigger.

> > I know I'm going to have to fire up the torch and build a new lauch pad.
> How
> > big of a blast area do I need with F50-9t and G80-10t?

> > As far as a beefed up ignition system....  I want to build my own and
> would
> > like to hear what you folks have done.

> > Also any personal experiences with a stock Graduator would be greatly
> > appreciated.

--
Ron Zeppin
Access Rocketry
http://www.accessrocketry.com
TRA# 6024
AHPRA
XRAA
 
 
 

LOC Graduator

Post by Ron Zeppi » Mon, 10 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Mark, fear not!! The graduator with just some very modest mods will take almost
anything you can dish out!! Use 1/8th inch dowels epoxied to both side of the
fin tab inside the airframe, then use two part foam from the top centering ring
all the way to the bottom of the rocket. Once it hardens, sand the foam down
far enough into the airframe so that the rear CR will fit in. My buddy built
his graduator stock then added the dowels to the fin roots. He didn't even use
the foam, and he flies it Kosdon I-800's. 200lbs of thrust, 430Ns, .6 second
burn time. These motors are incredible, and in the Graduator, the rocket just
vanishes from the pad. It's truly AWESOME!!! In a nutshell, the Graduator will
stand up to a lot of abuse if mildly modified.

Ron

--
Ron Zeppin
Access Rocketry
http://www.accessrocketry.com
TRA# 6024
AHPRA
XRAA

Quote:

> Thanks for all the input! All very good info indeed!

> I agree with everyone, looking at what is supplied, the fin assembly and
> motor mount must be reinforced.  I fear that even a G80 would be
> instrumental to disassemble it if extra intervention is not taken.

> I know it's a bit of a rush but I need it done and flight ready in 3 weeks.
> Herding the wife and kids out to my folks place in West Texas.  Flat, no
> trees and 2000 acres, rocketry heaven!  We usually load up every rocket
> we've got and hual them out there.  Last year our stock Mean Machine kept
> the most of our attention.

> thanks,
>   mark