Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Daniel Kir » Sat, 24 May 2003 23:59:07



I've been using Elmer's Fill 'n Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler.  They
both go on fine and sand smooth.  Then I prime, sand, prime, and sand, and
it looks absolutely perfect -- until I use gloss paint -- color,
manufacturer or composition makes no difference -- and there's that blasted
spiral again!
 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by shockwaverider » Sun, 25 May 2003 01:16:36


daniel:
I use epoxy resin....
shockie B)
Quote:

> I've been using Elmer's Fill 'n Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler.  They
> both go on fine and sand smooth.  Then I prime, sand, prime, and sand, and
> it looks absolutely perfect -- until I use gloss paint -- color,
> manufacturer or composition makes no difference -- and there's that blasted
> spiral again!


 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by J.A. Miche » Sun, 25 May 2003 01:15:08


I assume you mean shallower spirals?  Not PML phenolic mile-deep channel
spirals?  Try this:
Thin your FnF with water until it's about like pancake batter. (It won't
take much water)  Brush two coats on the tube, allowing drying time between
coats, but without sanding.  I coat the tube entirely when I do this.  Next,
sand it until you've got the tube smooth and you've got all the brushmarks
out of the FnF.  You should just have a thin skin of FnF over the tube at
this point.  Prime 2-3 coats, smooth primer with 220-400 grit sandpaper, and
paint.  I have done this to many a rocket, but it's alot of work and mess.
The spirals don't come back though.

Hope this helps,
J.A. Michel


Quote:
> I've been using Elmer's Fill 'n Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler.  They
> both go on fine and sand smooth.  Then I prime, sand, prime, and sand, and
> it looks absolutely perfect -- until I use gloss paint -- color,
> manufacturer or composition makes no difference -- and there's that
blasted
> spiral again!

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Robert Rosenfiel » Sun, 25 May 2003 01:54:43


Primer tends to shrink quite a bit, here's my method. Using a lacquer based
primer, spray 3-4 coats and let dry overnight. Use one of the 3M  sponge
type of sanding blocks (fine) and try to not cut through the primer. Do not
press down hard, sand in all different directions. The bumpiness of the
paper tube will be apparent and you need to level the surface carefully.

Again, spray 3-4 coats of primer and let dry again overnight. Block sanding
tubes is not easy, but if you criss-cross gently, removing all the high
spots the surface will begin to be very smooth. If you go the Auto Paint
supply store, they sell different colors of primer for this reason, (Sherwin
Williams is owned by PPG) and one coat of a darker or lighter primer is
applied. When dry, lightly sand the surface. Low spots will show up
instantly. Try to bring the higher surfaces down to the low ones, without
cutting through the primer.

You actually don't want a thick primer base, just all the imperfections
filled. At this time I usually will spray 2 more coats of primer and allow
to dry a couple of days for shrinkage. If you gently sand this surface with
an extra fine sanding block, you can find any last imperfections or
pin-holes. These can be filled with spot putty, or spray primer in those
areas only and blend when dried.

I prefer to now go on to a white base coat and apply two full wet coats. If
anything is going to show up, it will now. Let this dry completely, and use
220 - 300 grit white sandpaper (aluminum oxide) to smooth the base coat.
White is great for making yellows and reds very bright. If you try to do
some colors over gray primer, they will look terrible. (Black does not
matter). Silver base coat is best for Candy translucent colors, although
gold is also used) Never sand the metallic base coats, as you will cut
through the solids and scratches will be very apparent.

Robert  



Quote:
> I've been using Elmer's Fill 'n Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler.  They
> both go on fine and sand smooth.  Then I prime, sand, prime, and sand, and
> it looks absolutely perfect -- until I use gloss paint -- color,
> manufacturer or composition makes no difference -- and there's that blasted
> spiral again!

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by defaul » Sun, 25 May 2003 01:37:44



Quote:
> I've been using Elmer's Fill 'n Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler.  They
> both go on fine and sand smooth.  Then I prime, sand, prime, and sand, and
> it looks absolutely perfect -- until I use gloss paint -- color,
> manufacturer or composition makes no difference -- and there's that blasted
> spiral again!

a.  stand father away
b.  use bigger motors
c.  take off your glasses
d.  sprinkle balsa dust in your eyes
e.  carve an opposite direction spiral and call it a unique pattern

just trying to help,
steve "on my way to Walla Walla Washington for Fire in the Sky on the Binder farm" bloom

temps in the 80's!!!!!!

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Zack La » Sun, 25 May 2003 02:51:41


John Pursley has a great web page on this subject
at http://www.accur8.com/Techniques/Techniques.htm

There are actually two spirals--one just below the
surface that is harder to get rid.

Zack Lau W1VT  NAR 80361

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Steve Decke » Sun, 25 May 2003 04:47:09


Be aware that there are actually TWO spirals. The "open" one that you can
see and the "closed" one that resides under the glassine. For the best job,
slit the closed spiral and fill both.

I have had good luck with spray Kilz.

Use respiration and ventilation. It's ***.

--

Steve Decker
square-jawed chief engineer of the patternmaking division


Quote:
> I've been using Elmer's Fill 'n Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler.  They
> both go on fine and sand smooth.  Then I prime, sand, prime, and sand, and
> it looks absolutely perfect -- until I use gloss paint -- color,
> manufacturer or composition makes no difference -- and there's that
blasted
> spiral again!

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by AkaZil » Sun, 25 May 2003 11:25:06


Aloha,
I carbon fiber over them.

Larry

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Reece Talle » Mon, 26 May 2003 02:57:19


I avoid the whole mess by using automotive spot filling primer. it takes two
or three coats with wet sanding in between but it's not very messy, it
doesn't add much weight (I've weighed them so I have definitive data) and
it's fast.

--
R. J. Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
NAR #69594
NRA #133073736

Quote:
> I assume you mean shallower spirals?  Not PML phenolic mile-deep channel
> spirals?  Try this:
> Thin your FnF with water until it's about like pancake batter. (It won't
> take much water)  Brush two coats on the tube, allowing drying time
between
> coats, but without sanding.  I coat the tube entirely when I do this.
Next,
> sand it until you've got the tube smooth and you've got all the brushmarks
> out of the FnF.  You should just have a thin skin of FnF over the tube at
> this point.  Prime 2-3 coats, smooth primer with 220-400 grit sandpaper,
and
> paint.  I have done this to many a rocket, but it's alot of work and mess.
> The spirals don't come back though.

> Hope this helps,
> J.A. Michel



> > I've been using Elmer's Fill 'n Finish or Carpenter's Wood Filler.  They
> > both go on fine and sand smooth.  Then I prime, sand, prime, and sand,
and
> > it looks absolutely perfect -- until I use gloss paint -- color,
> > manufacturer or composition makes no difference -- and there's that
> blasted
> > spiral again!

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Mark Simpso » Thu, 29 May 2003 10:12:51


Quote:

> Aloha,
> I carbon fiber over them.

> Larry

I cover them with vinyl myself...vinyl contact paper. ;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II
God Bless our victorious troops in the Middle East

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Mark A Palme » Fri, 30 May 2003 01:29:58


I have used Red Devil Ultra Lite Spackle with good results. It dries
quick. sands easily and adds virtually no weight.

Mark Palmer
tra 08542    L3

Quote:


> > Aloha,
> > I carbon fiber over them.

> > Larry

> I cover them with vinyl myself...vinyl contact paper. ;-)

> Mark Simpson
> NAR 71503 Level II
> God Bless our victorious troops in the Middle East

 
 
 

Filling tube spirals -- Alternative methods?

Post by Mark Simpso » Sat, 31 May 2003 08:41:12


Mark,
That's what I use to fill the holes in my plywood fins and fillets.
GMTA. ;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II
God Bless our victorious troops in the Middle East

Quote:

> I have used Red Devil Ultra Lite Spackle with good results. It dries
> quick. sands easily and adds virtually no weight.

> Mark Palmer
> tra 08542    L3



> > > Aloha,
> > > I carbon fiber over them.

> > > Larry

> > I cover them with vinyl myself...vinyl contact paper. ;-)

> > Mark Simpson
> > NAR 71503 Level II
> > God Bless our victorious troops in the Middle East