L2 Cert & EZI-65

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Yves » Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:00:00



Hi There.

Well ... the time has come, this year I'm planning on certifying level
2 (actually, it's level 3 under the CAR rules, level 2 being "I"
motors here).  Anyhow ... I'm planning on seriously beefing up an
EZI-65 so it can take the pounding of a J350 reload.  Any advice
there?  I don't feel like fiberglassing but I will be replacing the
plywood fins with G10 fins, and will add two more centering
rings and will assemble the "fin canister" seperately to make sure
I apply epoxy on every ajoining surfaces.  I'm also going to lengthen
the motor tube and the rocket itself by about 12 inches.

Also, I hear that the "shape" of the EZI fins is one of the reasons
you really can't throw high impulse motors into it, so I'm planning on
altering the fins to be shaped more like the ones used on a Vulcanite.

Finally, I'm also going to use two-stage electronic deployment with an
Adept ALTS25 high-low deployment system.

Any other advice or should this combo fly fairly well?

[Note: I have enough tube couplers to fill up the whole damn thing if
I have to as well ;-) ]
--
Yves || A3MAQ Prez || http://www.game-master.com/yves
CAR#S255, L1 Certified.

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by hsosd.. » Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:00:00


To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go for Level 2 if all you
have is the 38/720 hardware, so the only Level 2 reload you'll be able
to fly is the J350.

If you get the RMS 54/852 hardware set you have many more options- J460,
J275, J90 and my personal favorite, the J180. Achieving Level 2
certification in the EZI-65 with a J90 is a much surer bet- that rocket
was designed expressly for long-burn low-thrusting motors (hence the
name "I-65"). It won't require modifications to the rocket and entails
the fewest risks. The J180 should be likewise.

Then once you do certify, having the 54/852 motor gives you way more
leeway in motor selection so you can tailor the flight profile to the
rocket and the flying field. With the 38/720 casing you have only one
reload to fly, which means that every rocket you build must be able to
take that kind of high impulse. (I know that Aerotech is rumored to be
developing other reloads for that casing, but right now, it's a
one-trick-pony). It just doesn't seem to me to be as much fun as the
ability to use all sorts of different motors.

And the "Restricted Access" reloads don't entail any extra legal hassles
over the J350 (at least here in the US) as long as you purchase them at
the launch and then use them at the launch.

-Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (on a stock LOC Magnum with a K185)

Quote:

> Hi There.

> Well ... the time has come, this year I'm planning on certifying level
> 2 (actually, it's level 3 under the CAR rules, level 2 being "I"
> motors here).  Anyhow ... I'm planning on seriously beefing up an
> EZI-65 so it can take the pounding of a J350 reload.  Any advice
> there?  I don't feel like fiberglassing but I will be replacing the
> plywood fins with G10 fins, and will add two more centering
> rings and will assemble the "fin canister" seperately to make sure
> I apply epoxy on every ajoining surfaces.  I'm also going to lengthen
> the motor tube and the rocket itself by about 12 inches.

> Also, I hear that the "shape" of the EZI fins is one of the reasons
> you really can't throw high impulse motors into it, so I'm planning on
> altering the fins to be shaped more like the ones used on a Vulcanite.

> Finally, I'm also going to use two-stage electronic deployment with an
> Adept ALTS25 high-low deployment system.

> Any other advice or should this combo fly fairly well?

> [Note: I have enough tube couplers to fill up the whole damn thing if
> I have to as well ;-) ]
> --
> Yves || A3MAQ Prez || http://www.game-master.com/yves
> CAR#S255, L1 Certified.


 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Richard A. Drongowsk » Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:00:00


I'm inclined to agree with Hyam.  I used the EZI to do my Level cert on
a J90 and it was a real pleasure to watch, a crowd pleaser too.  I did
most of what you described except the fins were left stock.  There are
some pictures on the Website along with the following description:

"In this series, we have a modified EZI on an Aerotech J90. It carries
an 18" PML drogue and a 36" LOC main chute all protected by Nomex. The
chute's are deployed by a Transolve P2 Altimeter fireing Robbie's LES
units top and bottom. There is also an ALTS2 to perform backup altitude
measurments. The payload modifications add a total of 6" to the overal
length. There are four centering rings in the bottom end to stiffen the
fin section. With the J90 loaded, the weight is up to 6 lb 11 oz. This
flight went to a peak altitude of 3763 ft. and landed about 100 yds from
the pad."

That's a "little" <g> on the heavy side, hence the 3763 ft altidude.
I've been thinking about glassing the fins and giving it a try on a
K-185.  That will burn forever and not rip the paint off the tube as it
lifts off the pad.

Good luck with your Cert!
***

--
*** Drongowski
TRA# 4895 L2, NAR 69114 SR
Tripoli Michigan Team-1

Quote:

> To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go for Level 2 if all you
> have is the 38/720 hardware, so the only Level 2 reload you'll be able
> to fly is the J350.

> If you get the RMS 54/852 hardware set you have many more options- J460,
> J275, J90 and my personal favorite, the J180. Achieving Level 2
> certification in the EZI-65 with a J90 is a much surer bet- that rocket
> was designed expressly for long-burn low-thrusting motors (hence the
> name "I-65"). It won't require modifications to the rocket and entails
> the fewest risks. The J180 should be likewise.

> Then once you do certify, having the 54/852 motor gives you way more
> leeway in motor selection so you can tailor the flight profile to the
> rocket and the flying field. With the 38/720 casing you have only one
> reload to fly, which means that every rocket you build must be able to
> take that kind of high impulse. (I know that Aerotech is rumored to be
> developing other reloads for that casing, but right now, it's a
> one-trick-pony). It just doesn't seem to me to be as much fun as the
> ability to use all sorts of different motors.

> And the "Restricted Access" reloads don't entail any extra legal hassles
> over the J350 (at least here in the US) as long as you purchase them at
> the launch and then use them at the launch.

> -Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (on a stock LOC Magnum with a K185)


> > Hi There.

> > Well ... the time has come, this year I'm planning on certifying level
> > 2 (actually, it's level 3 under the CAR rules, level 2 being "I"
> > motors here).  Anyhow ... I'm planning on seriously beefing up an
> > EZI-65 so it can take the pounding of a J350 reload.  Any advice
> > there?  I don't feel like fiberglassing but I will be replacing the
> > plywood fins with G10 fins, and will add two more centering
> > rings and will assemble the "fin canister" seperately to make sure
> > I apply epoxy on every ajoining surfaces.  I'm also going to lengthen
> > the motor tube and the rocket itself by about 12 inches.

> > Also, I hear that the "shape" of the EZI fins is one of the reasons
> > you really can't throw high impulse motors into it, so I'm planning on
> > altering the fins to be shaped more like the ones used on a Vulcanite.

> > Finally, I'm also going to use two-stage electronic deployment with an
> > Adept ALTS25 high-low deployment system.

> > Any other advice or should this combo fly fairly well?

> > [Note: I have enough tube couplers to fill up the whole damn thing if
> > I have to as well ;-) ]
> > --
> > Yves || A3MAQ Prez || http://www.FoundCollection.com/
> > CAR#S255, L1 Certified.

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Ed » Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi There.

> Well ... the time has come, this year I'm planning on certifying level
> 2 (actually, it's level 3 under the CAR rules, level 2 being "I"
> motors here).  Anyhow ... I'm planning on seriously beefing up an
> EZI-65 so it can take the pounding of a J350 reload.  Any advice
> there?  I don't feel like fiberglassing but I will be replacing the
> plywood fins with G10 fins, and will add two more centering
> rings and will assemble the "fin canister" seperately to make sure
> I apply epoxy on every ajoining surfaces.  I'm also going to lengthen
> the motor tube and the rocket itself by about 12 inches.

> Also, I hear that the "shape" of the EZI fins is one of the reasons
> you really can't throw high impulse motors into it, so I'm planning on
> altering the fins to be shaped more like the ones used on a Vulcanite.

> Finally, I'm also going to use two-stage electronic deployment with an
> Adept ALTS25 high-low deployment system.

> Any other advice or should this combo fly fairly well?

> [Note: I have enough tube couplers to fill up the whole damn thing if
> I have to as well ;-) ]
> --
> Yves || A3MAQ Prez || http://www.game-master.com/yves
> CAR#S255, L1 Certified.

Just think into the future. Will "I" be wanting to use larger diameter
motors, maybe, not yet, even available? Like we say, It's easier to
adapt down, than up.
....Ed
 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Chop » Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:00:00


    To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go for Level 2 if all you
    have is the 38/720 hardware, so the only Level 2 reload you'll be able
    to fly is the J350.

Well, if you've been flying level 1 for a while and have a 38mm motor set,
trying for level 2 using the J350 requires a much smaller investment than
any other reloadable technology.  Once you get the level 2 certification,
THEN you can consider other hardware.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to certify level two if you expect to be
permanantly restricted to easy access...

BillW
--
(remove spam food from return address)

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by hsosd.. » Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:00:00


I was actually a bit surprised at how fast the Magnum did liftoff with
the K185- just about the same as with the J275, which I've used a few
times in the Magnum. The TRA curves show virtually identical thrust from
ignition through the first second of burn on the two motors. And that K
motor just burns and burns and burns..... it was really a beautiful
flight.

I used motor ejection (no altimeter at all), so I can only judge
altitude from the sim- (4,000ft), and everything worked perfectly
(except that I had to walk about a mile across Lucerne to recover it-
but hey, I need the exercise!) I LOVE that motor!

-Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (and planning to fly his Esoteric on 5
K185s this summer)

Quote:


> > -Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (on a stock LOC Magnum with a K185)

> I didn't quite trust the low liftoff acceleration of a Magnum on a K185,
> si I added 2 G200s fast thermalited to ignite as the rocket began to
> move. Worked perfectly, giving an altitude of 4980 ft. I use altimeter
> ejection and weight less motor is 10 lbs.
> Tom

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by hsosd.. » Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Ken Finwall of Calif. High-Power Model Rockets sells the Dr. Rocket
38/720 casing for $46.00, and the complete Dr. Rocket 54/852 motor
(casing and closures) for $96.00. If you're certifying for Level 2 it
means that you're making a committment to fly larger motors. It just
makes a whole lot more sense to me to invest in hardware that you'll be
able to use again and again in different rockets and for different
flight profiles than it does to invest in a casing that can only be used
for one reload. And it's a reload that can only be flown in rockets
specifically designed to handle it, which is a further limitation.

As far as I'm concerned, the $50.00 investment difference between the
two is money extremely well-spent. (And in the context of this hobby,
$50.00 really isn't a very big investment).

-Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (waiting for paperwork)

Quote:

>     To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go for Level 2 if all you
>     have is the 38/720 hardware, so the only Level 2 reload you'll be able
>     to fly is the J350.

> Well, if you've been flying level 1 for a while and have a 38mm motor set,
> trying for level 2 using the J350 requires a much smaller investment than
> any other reloadable technology.  Once you get the level 2 certification,
> THEN you can consider other hardware.

> It doesn't make a lot of sense to certify level two if you expect to be
> permanantly restricted to easy access...

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Tom Binfor » Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> -Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (on a stock LOC Magnum with a K185)

I didn't quite trust the low liftoff acceleration of a Magnum on a K185,
si I added 2 G200s fast thermalited to ignite as the rocket began to
move. Worked perfectly, giving an altitude of 4980 ft. I use altimeter
ejection and weight less motor is 10 lbs.
Tom
 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Ken Finwa » Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>If you get the RMS 54/852 hardware set you have many more options- J460,
>J275, J90 and my personal favorite, the J180.

I 100% agree, the 54/852 is the way to go.  Use a J90 or J180 with the EZI-65. For J-K certification the best rocket to
use is the LOC Magnum. You can use the J350 or go 54mm and choose J180, J275, J460, J415, J800, K185, K550 or K1100 and
be very confident about a sucessful flight. Keep it simple until after you certify.

Ken

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Yves » Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>I 100% agree, the 54/852 is the way to go.  Use a J90 or J180 with the EZI-65. For J-K certification
>the best rocket to use is the LOC Magnum. You can use the J350 or go 54mm and choose J180,
>J275, J460, J415, J800, K185, K550 or K1100 and be very confident about a sucessful flight.
>Keep it simple until after you certify.

Sounds like this is the way I should go then.  The J350 is pretty
restrictive as many have said, you kinda have to build the rocket to
suit the motor instead of the other way around (pick the right motor
for a given rocket).  Thanks everybody, I'm going to look into it ...
I just hope the price difference between a 38/720 and a 54/852 isn't
that big. :-)

--
Yves

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Darrell Moble » Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi There.

> Well ... the time has come, this year I'm planning on certifying level
> 2 (actually, it's level 3 under the CAR rules, level 2 being "I"
> motors here).  Anyhow ... I'm planning on seriously beefing up an
> EZI-65 so it can take the pounding of a J350 reload.  Any advice
> there?

I certified Level 2 on an EZI-65, but I used a J-90.  I don't think the
EZI needs all that much beefing up.  I lengthened the motor mount, added
a centering ring, building the fin/mount assembly with the rear ring off
to fillet the inside of the body tube, and later added dual stage
deployment.  I would fly mine on a J-275 tomorrow in its current
configuration.  It's a tough rocket.
--
Visit "Rocketry Online" at http://www.RocketryOnline.com for the latest
rocketry-oriented website URL locations.

"You come here, we'll take you there..."

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Jim McLaughli » Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:00:00



MAJOR SNIPS OF GOOD ADVICE RE MTOR SELECTIONIN EZI 65

Quote:

> And the "Restricted Access" reloads don't entail any extra legal hassles
> over the J350 (at least here in the US) as long as you purchase them at
> the launch and then use them at the launch.

   Of course, the same can be said of any reload --M, L, K, etc -- if
purchased at a launch site and used there on that day.   Kind of tells you a lot about "Esay
Access"  as a marketing concept as opposed to a method of  actual
compliance with fed law re motors / Title 18 and 55 CFR

Jim McLaughlin                     These opinions are mine, mine, mine!
Portland, OR                       And not anybody else's. So there.

Flyer of EZJ -  460s and EZJ 275s back before it became popular.

Remove Anti Spam Device *!!* From Address Before Replying

 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Tom Binfor » Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> I was actually a bit surprised at how fast the Magnum did liftoff with
> the K185- just about the same as with the J275, which I've used a few
> times in the Magnum. The TRA curves show virtually identical thrust from
> ignition through the first second of burn on the two motors. And that K
> motor just burns and burns and burns..... it was really a beautiful
> flight.

> I used motor ejection (no altimeter at all), so I can only judge
> altitude from the sim- (4,000ft), and everything worked perfectly
> (except that I had to walk about a mile across Lucerne to recover it-
> but hey, I need the exercise!) I LOVE that motor!

> -Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (and planning to fly his Esoteric on 5
> K185s this summer)

Never flew mine with a J275 - always used a J460 or J800. If you're
willing to pay, try a K250. Got 7300 ft with one in mine.
Your Esoteric flight WILL be spectacular!
Bring it back alive - Tom
 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Tom Binfor » Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Quote:


> > Hi There.

> > Well ... the time has come, this year I'm planning on certifying level
> > 2 (actually, it's level 3 under the CAR rules, level 2 being "I"
> > motors here).  Anyhow ... I'm planning on seriously beefing up an
> > EZI-65 so it can take the pounding of a J350 reload.  Any advice
> > there?

> I certified Level 2 on an EZI-65, but I used a J-90.  I don't think the
> EZI needs all that much beefing up.  I lengthened the motor mount, added
> a centering ring, building the fin/mount assembly with the rear ring off
> to fillet the inside of the body tube, and later added dual stage
> deployment.  I would fly mine on a J-275 tomorrow in its current
> configuration.  It's a tough rocket.
> --
> Visit "Rocketry Online" at http://www.RocketryOnline.com for the latest
> rocketry-oriented website URL locations.

> "You come here, we'll take you there..."

Failure mode of an EZI is fin flutter. Replace the fins with G-10 in an
otherwise stock kit and it will withstand a J415. Reinforcing the
internal structure doesn't prevent this as the fins break off outside
the fillets.
Tom
 
 
 

L2 Cert & EZI-65

Post by Martin Rogo » Tue, 24 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>Ken Finwall of Calif. High-Power Model Rockets sells the Dr. Rocket
>38/720 casing for $46.00, and the complete Dr. Rocket 54/852 motor
>(casing and closures) for $96.00. If you're certifying for Level 2 it
>means that you're making a committment to fly larger motors. It just
>makes a whole lot more sense to me to invest in hardware that you'll be
>able to use again and again in different rockets and for different
>flight profiles than it does to invest in a casing that can only be used
>for one reload. And it's a reload that can only be flown in rockets
>specifically designed to handle it, which is a further limitation.

>As far as I'm concerned, the $50.00 investment difference between the
>two is money extremely well-spent. (And in the context of this hobby,
>$50.00 really isn't a very big investment).

>-Hyam R. Sosnow, TRA #1526 L2 (waiting for paperwork)

If you get the 720 casing for the J350, you will also need the special
rear closure for $28, so the case will cost $74.  This is only $22
difference.  

Martin Rogoff
N5GPS
NAR # 65545 Level I


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