Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by John Gordo » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:44:39



http://www.FoundCollection.com/

I came across this web page, and it bothers be because someone is extolling
the use of a D-12-3 in pyrotechnics.  I realize there is no way of
preventing the misuse of hobby rockets, as there is no way to prevent the
misuse of guns, knives, butter, nicotine, ***, country music, etc.

Would it be inappropriate for me to ask this person to take down this page
to try and help prevent damage to my hobby?

I imagine if this caught on, then we might not be able to get Estes motors
any more, they could be legislated out of existence, I imagine.

Is what this person proposing to do with Estes motors illegal?

Thanks for your opinion,
John G.

 
 
 

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by Paxto » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:02:02


Bullshit! Seems to me that using a D12-3 is a very safe and effective way to
launch a pyrotechnic header.

There is nothing unethical about this web page. If you believe pyrotechnics
is not a respectable hobby, then you need to tell the thousands of members
of the Pyrotechnics guild international(PGI) and the Western pyrotechnics
association(WPA) and the members of all the other smaller groups out there
just like your rocket clubs. Those associations are there for the promotion
of safe pyrotechnics operations just like TRA and NAR are there for
rocketry.

If you are trying to say that these people are not allowed to purchase and
use a safe reliable device to launch their colorful headers, then you need
to be locked up with the key thrown away. Model rocket enthusiasts should
have a reliable propulsion device, but pyro enthusiasts should not right?

As obvious from my earlier posts I fully support educated safe practice of
making pressed BP motors, however some are incapable of doing as such. Some
people do not have the equipment or the knack for making a reliable motor,
and using an Estes motor is a great alternative. Heck, even just to practice
basic pyro rocket skills they are good. I never actually thought of doing
this to practice with headers. I think I will do a couple after I get some
more reliable stars made up.

If I am feeding a TROLL then I will feed it so full it cant take any more!
If this joker is serious, may he please be rendered incapable of
communicating his thoughts to others(preferably with a bus or something).

I am so furious with the disregard for what other people do. Pyrotechnics,
commercial and amateur is being regulated out of existence just like
rocketry. It is a very technical and potentially dangerous art, more so then
any form of rocketry, but it is the loved by those who do it often times
more then peoples love for rocketry. This is because they know it can be
dangerous, and they are willing to learn, study, and accept those risks to
do what they love.

Anybody on this list that fails to understand that is a hypocrite at best!

Wake up and smell the smoke!

Paxton


Quote:
> http://www.FoundCollection.com/

> I came across this web page, and it bothers be because someone is
extolling
> the use of a D-12-3 in pyrotechnics.  I realize there is no way of
> preventing the misuse of hobby rockets, as there is no way to prevent the
> misuse of guns, knives, butter, nicotine, ***, country music, etc.

> Would it be inappropriate for me to ask this person to take down this page
> to try and help prevent damage to my hobby?

> I imagine if this caught on, then we might not be able to get Estes motors
> any more, they could be legislated out of existence, I imagine.

> Is what this person proposing to do with Estes motors illegal?

> Thanks for your opinion,
> John G.


 
 
 

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by Kevin Trojanowsk » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:18:07


John...

Provided the fireworks manufacturing and use is legal within the area
where this is done, I don't see why it would be illegal.

As far as negative impact on the rocketry hobby, I don't think this is
any more potentially troublesome than things people do with rockets.
This is an obvious violation of the safety codes of both national
organizations, and as such, both can easily disavow it.

That said, if it's considered safe and appropriate under the
pyrotechnics organizations, then there is nothing wrong with it, when
done under that guise.

In addition, I'd MUCH rather see someone use Estes motors than try to
produce their own without proper safety precautions and education.

-Kevin

 
 
 

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by Art Fuldodge » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:44:41


Quote:

> I imagine if this caught on, then we might not be able to get Estes motors
> any more, they could be legislated out of existence, I imagine.

> Is what this person proposing to do with Estes motors illegal?

Regardless of the legality or illegality of this, if Estes finds out that the
author of this site is using their company's name and an image of their
product in this manner, the author could find himself in much hot water
with Estes' lawyers verrrrry quickly.
 
 
 

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by Hilty Information Syste » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:28:12




Quote:
>Bullshit! Seems to me that using a D12-3 is a very safe and effective way to
>launch a pyrotechnic header.

Interesting.  Could it be that the pyro crowd is recognizing that
commercially manufactured BP rocket motors are safer, and cheaper than
home built?

<g>

tah

Tod A. Hilty  NAR #72099
Hilty Information Systems

  - replace ihrUnterhose with adelphia for reply
--
Member MTMA, NAR Section #606  

Mantua Township Missile Agency
http://web.raex.com/~markndeb/rockets/mtma/

"I'm going to put the wheels of the bus back on... just in case"
   - BlankReg, Max Headroom: 20 Minutes Into the Future

"I speak for myself _and_ my corporation!  Deal with it!"
   - blankreg

 
 
 

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:42:40



Quote:

>> I imagine if this caught on, then we might not be able to get Estes motors
>> any more, they could be legislated out of existence, I imagine.

>> Is what this person proposing to do with Estes motors illegal?

> Regardless of the legality or illegality of this, if Estes finds out that the
> author of this site is using their company's name and an image of their
> product in this manner, the author could find himself in much hot water
> with Estes' lawyers verrrrry quickly.

I don't see any trademarked logo or anything being abused on this page...
It's not an actual image of the product either.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"

Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.FoundCollection.com/
NIRA:   http://www.FoundCollection.com/    NAR:    http://www.FoundCollection.com/

        "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed.
        The U.S. government will lead the American people in and the
        West in general into an unbearable hell and a *** life."

        26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
        Support Freedom: http://www.FoundCollection.com/

 
 
 

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by John Gordo » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:51:17


Paxton, I was just asking, to make sure it was just me overreacting before I
said anything to RocketSamm.  Nope I wasn't trolling.  Any now that a couple
of people have weighed in, I agree with them.

I think threatening to run me over with a bus is a bit much.  Seek
professional help.

John Gordon


Quote:
> Bullshit! Seems to me that using a D12-3 is a very safe and effective way
to
> launch a pyrotechnic header.

> There is nothing unethical about this web page. If you believe
pyrotechnics
> is not a respectable hobby, then you need to tell the thousands of members
> of the Pyrotechnics guild international(PGI) and the Western pyrotechnics
> association(WPA) and the members of all the other smaller groups out there
> just like your rocket clubs. Those associations are there for the
promotion
> of safe pyrotechnics operations just like TRA and NAR are there for
> rocketry.

> If you are trying to say that these people are not allowed to purchase and
> use a safe reliable device to launch their colorful headers, then you need
> to be locked up with the key thrown away. Model rocket enthusiasts should
> have a reliable propulsion device, but pyro enthusiasts should not right?

> As obvious from my earlier posts I fully support educated safe practice of
> making pressed BP motors, however some are incapable of doing as such.
Some
> people do not have the equipment or the knack for making a reliable motor,
> and using an Estes motor is a great alternative. Heck, even just to
practice
> basic pyro rocket skills they are good. I never actually thought of doing
> this to practice with headers. I think I will do a couple after I get some
> more reliable stars made up.

> If I am feeding a TROLL then I will feed it so full it cant take any more!
> If this joker is serious, may he please be rendered incapable of
> communicating his thoughts to others(preferably with a bus or something).

> I am so furious with the disregard for what other people do. Pyrotechnics,
> commercial and amateur is being regulated out of existence just like
> rocketry. It is a very technical and potentially dangerous art, more so
then
> any form of rocketry, but it is the loved by those who do it often times
> more then peoples love for rocketry. This is because they know it can be
> dangerous, and they are willing to learn, study, and accept those risks to
> do what they love.

> Anybody on this list that fails to understand that is a hypocrite at best!

> Wake up and smell the smoke!

> Paxton



> > http://www.FoundCollection.com/

> > I came across this web page, and it bothers be because someone is
> extolling
> > the use of a D-12-3 in pyrotechnics.  I realize there is no way of
> > preventing the misuse of hobby rockets, as there is no way to prevent
the
> > misuse of guns, knives, butter, nicotine, ***, country music, etc.

> > Would it be inappropriate for me to ask this person to take down this
page
> > to try and help prevent damage to my hobby?

> > I imagine if this caught on, then we might not be able to get Estes
motors
> > any more, they could be legislated out of existence, I imagine.

> > Is what this person proposing to do with Estes motors illegal?

> > Thanks for your opinion,
> > John G.

 
 
 

Ethics and the "misuse" of a D-12

Post by Art Fuldodge » Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:55:23


Quote:

> > Regardless of the legality or illegality of this, if Estes finds out that the
> > author of this site is using their company's name and an image of their
> > product in this manner, the author could find himself in much hot water
> > with Estes' lawyers verrrrry quickly.

> I don't see any trademarked logo or anything being abused on this page...
> It's not an actual image of the product either.

No, it's not, but it's a facsimile, and the "Estes" name is used twice.

IANAL, I'm just speculating as to what *might* or *could* happen if Estes
decided they didn't like their name and product being shown in such light.