Estes Command Control Launcher

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by tony » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00



I use an Estes Command Control Launcher to fire off
everything from 1/4A's to G80's, and I'd like to start
using it for some low end HP launches (instead of using
borrowed pads). I always use 12 freshly charged NiCd's, and
I was wondering if anyone has had any success with it using
50-100 feet of wire? I'm not a student of Ohm's Law, but I
do know that resistance increases with greater lengths of
wire. Any suggestions as to the best wire to use to
minimize resistance losses?

Tony Turley
Scott Depot, WV

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Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by Steve Ferre » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00


(I don't come to this group very often but just check it out once in
a while.) The basic item to understand is that with fairly low resistance,
you get a lot of current flow so you get more heat than with much
higher resistance. It's the same principle they use when making
heating elements for your stove or room heaters. Since the last
time I looked at igniters, I saw they also had a low resistance
through a small wire, then I could say that the best bet is just
heavier wire for the leads to make sure that their resistance is
very small in comparison so that you don't get much heat dissipating
in them. Thicker wire is lower resistance, thinner wire is "higher"
resistance. It is the same reason that car stereo enthusiasts use
"monster cable" which is quite thick, so that it minimizes the
resistance losses in the wire. I always used copper lamp chord
when I shot rockets back in high school. When I used telephone
wire it got quite warm. I also soldered all the connections except
the final connection to the igniter. Once a wire gets hot its
resistance gets higher which will make it hotter even faster. If you
can get the resistance numbers for the wire you propose to use,
the igniter, and the batteries, I could help you calculate the energy
lost (Watts) in the wire, the igniter, and batteries.

Be sure to check how warm the batteries get when you launch. Because
the time is small I doubt that they would get too warm on a single launch,
but just the same, since NiCads have fairly low resistance, they could
get warm in a hurry if you send a lot of current out of them.

Steve

Quote:

>I use an Estes Command Control Launcher to fire off
>everything from 1/4A's to G80's, and I'd like to start
>using it for some low end HP launches (instead of using
>borrowed pads). I always use 12 freshly charged NiCd's, and
>I was wondering if anyone has had any success with it using
>50-100 feet of wire? I'm not a student of Ohm's Law, but I
>do know that resistance increases with greater lengths of
>wire. Any suggestions as to the best wire to use to
>minimize resistance losses?

>Tony Turley
>Scott Depot, WV

>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


 
 
 

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by Jim » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00


I've built my own launcher, but I used a heavy duty extension cord
(16ga) about 35 feet long for the cable from batteries to launcher. I
use a 7.2v RC car battery and have had no problems with up to 4 engine
clusters.



Quote:
>The heavyer gauge wire, (smaller number) the better..  Typically, the
>resistance is lower in thicker wire..  My guess, it that you may be able
>to use 18 gauge, but 16 or 14 would be better..

>Or..  Take the nicads and build a relay launch controller - plans on
>ROL..  With that scheme, I use about 5' of heavy gauge, and then for the
>connection to the hand held, I use 4 conductor phone cable (50' for
>now...)  


>> I use an Estes Command Control Launcher to fire off
>> everything from 1/4A's to G80's, and I'd like to start
>> using it for some low end HP launches (instead of using
>> borrowed pads). I always use 12 freshly charged NiCd's, and
>> I was wondering if anyone has had any success with it using
>> 50-100 feet of wire? I'm not a student of Ohm's Law, but I
>> do know that resistance increases with greater lengths of
>> wire. Any suggestions as to the best wire to use to
>> minimize resistance losses?

>> Tony Turley
>> Scott Depot, WV

>> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
>> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Jim Kajpust - Personal Responsibility - Personal Freedoms
Michigan - www.concentric.net/~jkajpust
 
 
 

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by Brett Duan » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00


Use the heaviest wire practical. 16, 14, or even 12 gage wire should
work well.

Food for thought - Get one of those orange extension cords that are good
for at least 10 Amps, and use that for your 'wire'. When not being used
for launches, it could be used around the house as, what else - an
extension cord!

Brett

Quote:

> I use an Estes Command Control Launcher to fire off
> everything from 1/4A's to G80's, and I'd like to start
> using it for some low end HP launches (instead of using
> borrowed pads). I always use 12 freshly charged NiCd's, and
> I was wondering if anyone has had any success with it using
> 50-100 feet of wire? I'm not a student of Ohm's Law, but I
> do know that resistance increases with greater lengths of
> wire. Any suggestions as to the best wire to use to
> minimize resistance losses?

> Tony Turley
> Scott Depot, WV

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by Woody Mille » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00


The heavyer gauge wire, (smaller number) the better..  Typically, the
resistance is lower in thicker wire..  My guess, it that you may be able
to use 18 gauge, but 16 or 14 would be better..

Or..  Take the nicads and build a relay launch controller - plans on
ROL..  With that scheme, I use about 5' of heavy gauge, and then for the
connection to the hand held, I use 4 conductor phone cable (50' for
now...)  

Quote:

> I use an Estes Command Control Launcher to fire off
> everything from 1/4A's to G80's, and I'd like to start
> using it for some low end HP launches (instead of using
> borrowed pads). I always use 12 freshly charged NiCd's, and
> I was wondering if anyone has had any success with it using
> 50-100 feet of wire? I'm not a student of Ohm's Law, but I
> do know that resistance increases with greater lengths of
> wire. Any suggestions as to the best wire to use to
> minimize resistance losses?

> Tony Turley
> Scott Depot, WV

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by Jim » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00


There's an article in Sport Rocketry (Holiday 96) that says to use
thinner wire on the Estes Electron Beam controller.  The author states
using thicker wire would increase battery load, decrease power to the
igniter, and greatly shorten the life of the batteries???



Quote:
>The heavyer gauge wire, (smaller number) the better..  Typically, the
>resistance is lower in thicker wire..  My guess, it that you may be able
>to use 18 gauge, but 16 or 14 would be better..

>Or..  Take the nicads and build a relay launch controller - plans on
>ROL..  With that scheme, I use about 5' of heavy gauge, and then for the
>connection to the hand held, I use 4 conductor phone cable (50' for
>now...)  


>> I use an Estes Command Control Launcher to fire off
>> everything from 1/4A's to G80's, and I'd like to start
>> using it for some low end HP launches (instead of using
>> borrowed pads). I always use 12 freshly charged NiCd's, and
>> I was wondering if anyone has had any success with it using
>> 50-100 feet of wire? I'm not a student of Ohm's Law, but I
>> do know that resistance increases with greater lengths of
>> wire. Any suggestions as to the best wire to use to
>> minimize resistance losses?

>> Tony Turley
>> Scott Depot, WV

>> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
>> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Jim Kajpust - Personal Responsibility - Personal Freedoms
Michigan - www.concentric.net/~jkajpust
 
 
 

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by Tony Turle » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00


I went to Lowes today and picked up 50' of 14ga low voltage cable (rated for
up to 150V). I'm going to solder clip whips on one end, and a set of Power
Pole connectors on the other, and that will let me run two pads from the
Command Control: a low power one 30' away, and a mid-high power one 50'
away. That will do for now, as I'm not into the monster impulse ranges -
yet. Thanks again for the suggestions.

Tony Turley
Scott Depot, WV

 
 
 

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by Bob Kapl » Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> There's an article in Sport Rocketry (Holiday 96) that says to use
> thinner wire on the Estes Electron Beam controller.  The author states
> using thicker wire would increase battery load, decrease power to the
> igniter, and greatly shorten the life of the batteries???

IIRC, this is Ric Gaff's article, lifted from our newsletter, The Leading
Edge. While Ric certainly has more electronics background than I, I disagree
with his statement. True, thicker wire will increase the battery load, but
that is exactly what you want to do. It will also shorten the battery life.
However, it does *NOT* decrease power to the ignitor, it increases it, which
is exactly the goal.

The modifications I'd make to any questes launcher are to:

1) Upgrade the wire to 18ga.

2) Replace the alkaline battery pack with high current nicads. You can
either do a 1:1 substitution, which will result in a 20% voltage drop, or in
some launchers like the old Solar, hack the case to add more batteries.
Current capacity is the key, especially if you want to fire clusters.

I find it convenient to add a charge jack when making the nicad conversion.

3) Replace the continuity light with a piezo buzzer. Lights are often hard
to see in the sun, and the buzzers are safe for all ignitors where the lamp
is not.

By the time I did this to my old Solar launcher, all I was using of the
original product was the plastic case. That's why I suggest building launch
equipment from scratch instead of modifying a shoddy designed product. it's
cheaper to build from scratch, and more fun.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"

Kaplow Klips:   http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html
NIRA:           http://www.nira.chicago.il.us  NAR:    http://www.nar.org

 
 
 

Estes Command Control Launcher

Post by R. J. Talle » Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:00:00


You'ld be proud of my pads Bob. I took the basic launch pivot design from
NAR, used surplus knobs at a few cents each, and then added a three legged
3/4" PVC base. For the blast sheild I used round electrical box covers.
Total cost per pad is very cheap and it is one heck of a lot cheaper and
portable than that thing from Estes and more useful and adjustable that that
thing from NCR.
R J Talley NAR 69594

PS: I***ed the Corian cutting problem with a RotoZip saw. It flies through
that stuff like a hot knife through butter...almost. BTW, Corian is free if
you ask for end scraps.

Quote:


(Jim K) writes:
>> There's an article in Sport Rocketry (Holiday 96) that says to use
>> thinner wire on the Estes Electron Beam controller.  The author states
>> using thicker wire would increase battery load, decrease power to the
>> igniter, and greatly shorten the life of the batteries???

>IIRC, this is Ric Gaff's article, lifted from our newsletter, The Leading
>Edge. While Ric certainly has more electronics background than I, I
disagree
>with his statement. True, thicker wire will increase the battery load, but
>that is exactly what you want to do. It will also shorten the battery life.
>However, it does *NOT* decrease power to the ignitor, it increases it,
which
>is exactly the goal.

>The modifications I'd make to any questes launcher are to:

>1) Upgrade the wire to 18ga.

>2) Replace the alkaline battery pack with high current nicads. You can
>either do a 1:1 substitution, which will result in a 20% voltage drop, or
in
>some launchers like the old Solar, hack the case to add more batteries.
>Current capacity is the key, especially if you want to fire clusters.

>I find it convenient to add a charge jack when making the nicad conversion.

>3) Replace the continuity light with a piezo buzzer. Lights are often hard
>to see in the sun, and the buzzers are safe for all ignitors where the lamp
>is not.

>By the time I did this to my old Solar launcher, all I was using of the
>original product was the plastic case. That's why I suggest building launch
>equipment from scratch instead of modifying a shoddy designed product. it's
>cheaper to build from scratch, and more fun.

> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"

>Kaplow Klips: http://www.FoundCollection.com/
>NIRA: http://www.FoundCollection.com/ NAR: http://www.FoundCollection.com/