Time for NAR Name Change

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by baDBo » Sat, 31 May 2003 10:26:05



If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education, even their
name would imply that flying rockets is for the kids.  It'd be easier
to sell as an education support group.

Bob

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by JDcluste » Sat, 31 May 2003 10:44:54


And what purpose would that serve ???

JD


Quote:

> If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
> Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education, even their
> name would imply that flying rockets is for the kids.  It'd be easier
> to sell as an education support group.

> Bob


 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by Alan Jone » Sun, 01 Jun 2003 04:29:54




Quote:

>If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
>Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education, even their
>name would imply that flying rockets is for the kids.  It'd be easier
>to sell as an education support group.

>Bob

Except that almost 15 years ago the NAR changed its focus from being a
scientific educational association to a consumer rocketry focus,
making your idea almost fraudulent.  We could try National Association
of Rocketry, NARC, Consumers, but that doesn't sound right. ;)

alan

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by AlMax7 » Sun, 01 Jun 2003 12:16:06


Quote:



> > Except that almost 15 years ago the NAR changed its focus from being a
> scientific educational association to a consumer rocketry focus

tell me what changed to do this ?
Quote:

> >If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
> >Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education, even their
> >name would imply that flying rockets is for the kids.  It'd be easier
> >to sell as an education support group.

> >Bob

> Except that almost 15 years ago the NAR changed its focus from being a
> scientific educational association to a consumer rocketry focus,
> making your idea almost fraudulent.  We could try National Association
> of Rocketry, NARC, Consumers, but that doesn't sound right. ;)

> alan

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by izz » Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:22:19


I was thinking that since Tripoli came into existence AFIIK because
NAR was HPR-phobic, now that NAR has an HPR cert program, what merit
is there in having two  separate orgz.

Seems like there's alot of duplication between the two of them.

- iz

Quote:

> If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
> Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education,

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by Woody Mille » Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:20:09


Not at all..  for one, EX is ok in TRA but not in NAR.

Also, (IMHO) while NAR now allows certs up to L3, many in the org have not
embraced big rockets.  The LC33 is still at <20 members, while the TRA TAP
is something like 4 times the size...  When you look at the membership
numbers of NAR vs TRA, you'll see the percentage is much worse!

Also, (IMHO), look at the mess over Kosdon!  TRA dropped cert with cause,
yet NAR didn't with the same facts.  Even though the issue was raised due to
a question about NSL a few years back!

Also (IMHO), do you notice that NAR won't cert any motor with an "adjustable
delay"?  These are only done with CAR (CTI) or TRA (AW)

There is VERY MUCH the need for 2 separate orgs.  It will be a long time
before these two could merge!

(I'm both NAR and TRA, and have been for a number of years!  Been both a
Prefect and a NAR section advisor too!)


Quote:
> I was thinking that since Tripoli came into existence AFIIK because
> NAR was HPR-phobic, now that NAR has an HPR cert program, what merit
> is there in having two  separate orgz.

> Seems like there's alot of duplication between the two of them.

> - iz




Quote:

> > If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
> > Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education,

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 01 Jun 2003 21:43:11


Quote:

> Not at all..  for one, EX is ok in TRA but not in NAR.

EX should stand on its own, as a seperate organization.

Quote:
> Also, (IMHO) while NAR now allows certs up to L3, many in the org have not
> embraced big rockets.  The LC33 is still at <20 members, while the TRA TAP
> is something like 4 times the size...  When you look at the membership
> numbers of NAR vs TRA, you'll see the percentage is much worse!

The L3CC comittee IS growing slowly, but I've yet to hear that its size is
an obstacle to any one getting their L3.

Quote:
> Also, (IMHO), look at the mess over Kosdon!  TRA dropped cert with cause,
> yet NAR didn't with the same facts.  Even though the issue was raised due to
> a question about NSL a few years back!

TRA overreacted, NAR did not. Where was the paperwork for decertifying USR
motors by TRA? Where is the required delay accuracy data from TRA. In fact
WHERE IS THE DATA FOR ANY OF THE MOTORS TRA CERTIFIED WITH A STROKE OF A
PEN? How did they certify three dozen motors of assorted delays with only
two dozen test firings.

Quote:
> Also (IMHO), do you notice that NAR won't cert any motor with an "adjustable
> delay"?  These are only done with CAR (CTI) or TRA (AW)

I'm not aware of this being policy. No such motors have been submitted to
NAR. Even TRA won't certify infinitely adjustable motors, as each value
certified must be tested for compliance with the specs.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
    www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org

 Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by Greg Cisk » Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:07:03



Quote:
> Also (IMHO), do you notice that NAR won't cert any motor with an
"adjustable
> delay"?  These are only done with CAR (CTI) or TRA (AW)

So are saying that PRO38's are not certified by NAR? Or that
they won't do the actual testing. There is a difference. Though
it is lame from a flying perspective. Who cares who does the
testing as long as it is certified?

--


 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by Alan Jone » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 02:54:36



Quote:



>> > Except that almost 15 years ago the NAR changed its focus from being a
>> scientific educational association to a consumer rocketry focus

>tell me what changed to do this ?

Ask Bunny.
 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by shockwaverider » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 03:10:20


izzy:
I agree that there is tremedous duplication in some areas, but before I would agree to any merger I would insist on 2 changes:

1. The current powers that be could not be elected or appointed to any position of any significance for at least 10 years....This
would give us a combined NEW leadership
2. EX has to GO...let ARSA have it and be responsible for it.....

shockie B)

Quote:

> I was thinking that since Tripoli came into existence AFIIK because
> NAR was HPR-phobic, now that NAR has an HPR cert program, what merit
> is there in having two  separate orgz.

> Seems like there's alot of duplication between the two of them.

> - iz


> > If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
> > Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education,

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by Bob Kapl » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 03:45:27



Quote:


>> Also (IMHO), do you notice that NAR won't cert any motor with an
> "adjustable
>> delay"?  These are only done with CAR (CTI) or TRA (AW)

> So are saying that PRO38's are not certified by NAR? Or that
> they won't do the actual testing. There is a difference. Though
> it is lame from a flying perspective. Who cares who does the
> testing as long as it is certified?

I don't believe they were submitted to the NAR for testing. Some were TMT
certified, others CAR certified. NAR recognizes both. But I'm not aware of
any NAR S&T policy that would have prevented them from certifiying the PRO38
with the "finite adjustable" delay feature.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
    www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org

 Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by James L. Marin » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 04:42:33


        So why does EX have to go? I've been doing it for a little while
now, and it is safe, fun, and educational.

James


Quote:
> izzy:
> I agree that there is tremedous duplication in some areas, but before I

would agree to any merger I would insist on 2 changes:
Quote:

> 1. The current powers that be could not be elected or appointed to any

position of any significance for at least 10 years....This
Quote:
> would give us a combined NEW leadership
> 2. EX has to GO...let ARSA have it and be responsible for it.....

> shockie B)




Quote:
> > I was thinking that since Tripoli came into existence AFIIK because
> > NAR was HPR-phobic, now that NAR has an HPR cert program, what merit
> > is there in having two  separate orgz.

> > Seems like there's alot of duplication between the two of them.

> > - iz




Quote:

> > > If the BATF can change their name by adding an E, then so should NAR.
> > > Now, as the National Association of Rocketry Education,

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by RayDunak » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 05:11:48


<< I was thinking that since Tripoli came into existence AFIIK because NAR was
HPR-phobic, now that NAR has an HPR cert program, what merit is there in having
two  separate orgz. >>

Plenty of merit in having two organizations. Gives people a choice between some
very different approaches to the hobby. TRA is high-power-centric, NAR's focus
is more strongly divided between high power and modrocs. TRA encourages EX,
while NAR is still EX-phobic. TRA is quick to adopt new technology, NAR
seemingly is more "old school". Etc., etc.

Not knocking NAR, just pointing out that there are differences, and I think
it's good that people can choose which suits them best. There's also the
"political" aspect -- if you can't stand TRA, there's always NAR; and vice
versa.

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by RayDunak » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 05:16:07


<< Even TRA won't certify infinitely adjustable motors, as each value certified
must be tested for compliance with the specs. >>

Pro54's are infinitely adjustable and are certified.

And no, you wouldn't have test an infinite number of values to cert something
like this. For instance, if you test 4, 6, and 8 second delays and they all are
accurate, it stands to reason that 5 and 7 second delays would be just as
accurate.

 
 
 

Time for NAR Name Change

Post by RayDunak » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 05:25:00


<< EX should stand on its own, as a seperate organization. >>

So you're in favor of even more division in the hobby?