Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Chris Tayl » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:39:09



Well it looks like the onsite HPR vendor is OUT of the motors I need
:-(

I am checking to see if countdown has them but they are not listed on
his site so I am not too hopeful.

so 2 things.  anyone know where I can get either 6 H73's OR 6 H97's
(which depends on final mass of glider) I need a minimum of 2 to fly
but would like to fly it 3 times. (that is off course assuming the
first flight works :-) hehehe

ALSO I may be able to get H55's but there is that LEUP problem.  the
letter of the law says that I am ok as long as I do not buy or
physically handle the motors.

Is there anyone who will be at naram with a LEUP who would not mind
"buying" and "handling" H55's for me at naram.  all you need to do is
purchase them under your name and insert them into my bird. Nar is ok
with this as long as it is ok legally. that means I can not touch
them. When I pay you I am paying for your "services and advise on HPR
for Naram" :-)

since they are SU I am also ok on the cert part with nar as far as
prepping the motors as well since there is no prep. I confirmed this
with Nar HQ

Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.  I really want to fly
this bird and it is looking VERY good for it to be done in time for
Naram.

Since time is critical they need to be shipped soon (either option)
the H73 and 97's I can get shipped to me I think (no leup needed) but
the H55's I can't for obvious resons.

I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
stuff this big :-)

Thanks !!!
Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Rocket Houn » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:06:08


Hey chris,

What vendor did you look at locally?


Quote:
> Well it looks like the onsite HPR vendor is OUT of the motors I need
> :-(

> I am checking to see if countdown has them but they are not listed on
> his site so I am not too hopeful.

> so 2 things.  anyone know where I can get either 6 H73's OR 6 H97's
> (which depends on final mass of glider) I need a minimum of 2 to fly
> but would like to fly it 3 times. (that is off course assuming the
> first flight works :-) hehehe

> ALSO I may be able to get H55's but there is that LEUP problem.  the
> letter of the law says that I am ok as long as I do not buy or
> physically handle the motors.

> Is there anyone who will be at naram with a LEUP who would not mind
> "buying" and "handling" H55's for me at naram.  all you need to do is
> purchase them under your name and insert them into my bird. Nar is ok
> with this as long as it is ok legally. that means I can not touch
> them. When I pay you I am paying for your "services and advise on HPR
> for Naram" :-)

> since they are SU I am also ok on the cert part with nar as far as
> prepping the motors as well since there is no prep. I confirmed this
> with Nar HQ

> Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.  I really want to fly
> this bird and it is looking VERY good for it to be done in time for
> Naram.

> Since time is critical they need to be shipped soon (either option)
> the H73 and 97's I can get shipped to me I think (no leup needed) but
> the H55's I can't for obvious resons.

> I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> stuff this big :-)

> Thanks !!!
> Chris Taylor
> http://www.nerys.com/



 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Robert DeHat » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:02:59


What about using a Pro38 motor?
Maybe a 2Grain H153?

RDH8

Quote:
> Well it looks like the onsite HPR vendor is OUT of the motors I need
> :-(

> I am checking to see if countdown has them but they are not listed on
> his site so I am not too hopeful.

> so 2 things.  anyone know where I can get either 6 H73's OR 6 H97's
> (which depends on final mass of glider) I need a minimum of 2 to fly
> but would like to fly it 3 times. (that is off course assuming the
> first flight works :-) hehehe

> ALSO I may be able to get H55's but there is that LEUP problem.  the
> letter of the law says that I am ok as long as I do not buy or
> physically handle the motors.

> Is there anyone who will be at naram with a LEUP who would not mind
> "buying" and "handling" H55's for me at naram.  all you need to do is
> purchase them under your name and insert them into my bird. Nar is ok
> with this as long as it is ok legally. that means I can not touch
> them. When I pay you I am paying for your "services and advise on HPR
> for Naram" :-)

> since they are SU I am also ok on the cert part with nar as far as
> prepping the motors as well since there is no prep. I confirmed this
> with Nar HQ

> Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.  I really want to fly
> this bird and it is looking VERY good for it to be done in time for
> Naram.

> Since time is critical they need to be shipped soon (either option)
> the H73 and 97's I can get shipped to me I think (no leup needed) but
> the H55's I can't for obvious resons.

> I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> stuff this big :-)

> Thanks !!!
> Chris Taylor
> http://www.nerys.com/


 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Robert DeHat » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:21:25


Mr Hound,
It appears he is looking only for Black Jack motors.
Chris, does this model require two motors?
Do you really want to cluster Black Jack motors?
Black Jack motors are not in production yet.

If its a cluster then you should use at least WL motors.
I know you can get H128 motors. Thoes are nice.
Pro38s light right away and are also great for clusters.
And the H153 is TRA certified so you can use them for NAR certs.

RDH8


Quote:
> Hey chris,

> What vendor did you look at locally?



> > Well it looks like the onsite HPR vendor is OUT of the motors I need
> > :-(

> > I am checking to see if countdown has them but they are not listed on
> > his site so I am not too hopeful.

> > so 2 things.  anyone know where I can get either 6 H73's OR 6 H97's
> > (which depends on final mass of glider) I need a minimum of 2 to fly
> > but would like to fly it 3 times. (that is off course assuming the
> > first flight works :-) hehehe

> > ALSO I may be able to get H55's but there is that LEUP problem.  the
> > letter of the law says that I am ok as long as I do not buy or
> > physically handle the motors.

> > Is there anyone who will be at naram with a LEUP who would not mind
> > "buying" and "handling" H55's for me at naram.  all you need to do is
> > purchase them under your name and insert them into my bird. Nar is ok
> > with this as long as it is ok legally. that means I can not touch
> > them. When I pay you I am paying for your "services and advise on HPR
> > for Naram" :-)

> > since they are SU I am also ok on the cert part with nar as far as
> > prepping the motors as well since there is no prep. I confirmed this
> > with Nar HQ

> > Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.  I really want to fly
> > this bird and it is looking VERY good for it to be done in time for
> > Naram.

> > Since time is critical they need to be shipped soon (either option)
> > the H73 and 97's I can get shipped to me I think (no leup needed) but
> > the H55's I can't for obvious resons.

> > I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> > so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> > stuff this big :-)

> > Thanks !!!
> > Chris Taylor
> > http://www.nerys.com/


 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Jerry Irvin » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:39:15




Quote:
> Mr Hound,
> It appears he is looking only for Black Jack motors.
> Chris, does this model require two motors?
> Do you really want to cluster Black Jack motors?

While I agree with your sentiment, does a dipped ematch/igniterman solve
this problem?

Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Bob Kapl » Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:01:24


Quote:

> I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> stuff this big :-)

You seem to be assuming that this thing will get past the RSO approval...

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the planet name <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
NIRA:   http://www.nira-rocketry.org    NAR:    http://www.nar.org

        We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the
        principles of a democratic society, accountable government and
        international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner
        consistent with the Constitution.

        26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
        Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Robert DeHat » Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:21:12


It can, but only if they use a "good" igniter and if they will fit in the
motors of question.
And of course not a high current Igniterman igniter, certainly an ematch in
the pyrogen though.

---
RDH8
NAR L2

Quote:


> > Mr Hound,
> > It appears he is looking only for Black Jack motors.
> > Chris, does this model require two motors?
> > Do you really want to cluster Black Jack motors?

> While I agree with your sentiment, does a dipped ematch/igniterman solve
> this problem?

> Jerry

> --
> Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA

> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
> Produce then publish.

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by David Schult » Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:25:53


With my luck, Chris will find some motors and then he will show up
during my shift of safety check-in duty.

I seem to attract the wierdos. The last time it was the flying pizza.
:-)

Quote:


> > I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> > so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> > stuff this big :-)

> You seem to be assuming that this thing will get past the RSO approval...

>         Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
>                 >>> To reply, remove the planet name <<<
> Kaplow Klips & Baffle:  http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
> NIRA:   http://www.nira-rocketry.org    NAR:    http://www.nar.org

>         We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the
>         principles of a democratic society, accountable government and
>         international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner
>         consistent with the Constitution.

>         26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
>         Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/

--
David W. Schultz
 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Phil Stei » Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:41:07


When I RSOd at NY Power, Someone (whos name I'd rather not mention)
had a rocket made entirely out of duct tape.  Finally after my shift &
several other RSOs denying it, he did the string test to show it was
stable - it was for about 5 or 10 feet.

Phil Stein

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:25:53 GMT, David Schultz

Quote:

>With my luck, Chris will find some motors and then he will show up
>during my shift of safety check-in duty.

>I seem to attract the wierdos. The last time it was the flying pizza.
>:-)



>> > I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
>> > so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
>> > stuff this big :-)

>> You seem to be assuming that this thing will get past the RSO approval...

>>         Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
>>                 >>> To reply, remove the planet name <<<
>> Kaplow Klips & Baffle:  http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
>> NIRA:   http://www.nira-rocketry.org    NAR:    http://www.nar.org

>>         We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the
>>         principles of a democratic society, accountable government and
>>         international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner
>>         consistent with the Constitution.

>>         26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
>>         Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Bob Kapl » Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:39:44



Quote:
> With my luck, Chris will find some motors and then he will show up
> during my shift of safety check-in duty.

> I seem to attract the wierdos. The last time it was the flying pizza.

One thing I've learned in doing SCO (RSO on a TRA range) duty: Don't let
someone talk you into passing something when that little man in your head is
saying "NO!". Think of the Challenger. Don't catch "Launch Fever".

When your better judgement is saying don't let that rocket pass, listen to
yourself. An SCO (RSO) who passes every rocket presented isn't doing their
job.

Now that's not to say you should nit pick every rocket to death until you
find something wrong with it. But you need to polish up that crystal ball,
peer into the future, and see exactly what the rocket is going to do. Then
if the result isn't desirable, send the flier back to fix the problem until
it will work correctly.

Admittedly this isn't really practical. Everyone misses things. But dont' be
afraid to ask for someone else to review a rocket outside yur area of
expertice. And ALWAYS listen to that little man in the back of your head.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the planet name <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.FoundCollection.com/
NIRA:   http://www.FoundCollection.com/    NAR:    http://www.FoundCollection.com/

        "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed.
        The U.S. government will lead the American people in and the
        West in general into an unbearable hell and a *** life."

        26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
        Support Freedom: http://www.FoundCollection.com/

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Bob Kapl » Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:42:49



Quote:
> When I RSOd at NY Power, Someone (whos name I'd rather not mention)
> had a rocket made entirely out of duct tape.  Finally after my shift &
> several other RSOs denying it, he did the string test to show it was
> stable - it was for about 5 or 10 feet.

I wouldn't trust a string test on anything much larger than a Wizard.

Sounds more like the duct tape rocket failed structurally than a stability
problem. Once something breaks, crimps, or shreads, then all bets are off
and the whole thing comes apart, usually in the blink of an eye. The trick
in failure analysis is to figgure out what failed FIRST and why.

It's not much concern that a rocket is unstable and crimps a fraction of a
second after the fins shread. The real problem was likely fin flutter that
ripped the fins off. Everythign else was secondary.

(been there, done that!)

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
                >>> To reply, remove the planet name <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://www.FoundCollection.com/
NIRA:   http://www.FoundCollection.com/    NAR:    http://www.FoundCollection.com/

        "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed.
        The U.S. government will lead the American people in and the
        West in general into an unbearable hell and a *** life."

        26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
        Support Freedom: http://www.FoundCollection.com/

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by David W. Schult » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:05:48


Quote:


> > With my luck, Chris will find some motors and then he will show up
> > during my shift of safety check-in duty.

> > I seem to attract the wierdos. The last time it was the flying pizza.

> One thing I've learned in doing SCO (RSO on a TRA range) duty: Don't let
> someone talk you into passing something when that little man in your head is
> saying "NO!". Think of the Challenger. Don't catch "Launch Fever".

> When your better judgement is saying don't let that rocket pass, listen to
> yourself. An SCO (RSO) who passes every rocket presented isn't doing their
> job.

> Now that's not to say you should nit pick every rocket to death until you
> find something wrong with it. But you need to polish up that crystal ball,
> peer into the future, and see exactly what the rocket is going to do. Then
> if the result isn't desirable, send the flier back to fix the problem until
> it will work correctly.

> Admittedly this isn't really practical. Everyone misses things. But dont' be
> afraid to ask for someone else to review a rocket outside yur area of
> expertice. And ALWAYS listen to that little man in the back of your head.

Actually the flying pizza was just fine. This particular flyer had been
flying AOL CD's (Windows CD's always crash :-) that worked really well.
I have no clue why but they work so I felt reasonably confident that
this would work.

That same day I sent a person back because they were unsure of the
status of the accelerometer range switch. They were wanting to fly a
Raven on a J350 using an AltAcc. I had recently seen a Raven on an I435
eject really early because the 25G range couldn't handle it.

I wonder if this little man you speak of is the one I was ignoring just
before my egglofter flight in Pittsburgh a couple of years ago?

--
David W. Schultz

"Zounds! I should have known.
Once you've been gassed,
you'll never be a real tomato."
Professor Gangrene

 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Chris Taylor J » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:23:03


leading edge I think.  they are out of all three :-(

they are the only vendor listed on the naram page.  are there any other
vendors neaby ? (could have them ship to hotel ir stop on the way in or
something)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


Quote:
> Hey chris,

> What vendor did you look at locally?



> > Well it looks like the onsite HPR vendor is OUT of the motors I need
> > :-(

> > I am checking to see if countdown has them but they are not listed on
> > his site so I am not too hopeful.

> > so 2 things.  anyone know where I can get either 6 H73's OR 6 H97's
> > (which depends on final mass of glider) I need a minimum of 2 to fly
> > but would like to fly it 3 times. (that is off course assuming the
> > first flight works :-) hehehe

> > ALSO I may be able to get H55's but there is that LEUP problem.  the
> > letter of the law says that I am ok as long as I do not buy or
> > physically handle the motors.

> > Is there anyone who will be at naram with a LEUP who would not mind
> > "buying" and "handling" H55's for me at naram.  all you need to do is
> > purchase them under your name and insert them into my bird. Nar is ok
> > with this as long as it is ok legally. that means I can not touch
> > them. When I pay you I am paying for your "services and advise on HPR
> > for Naram" :-)

> > since they are SU I am also ok on the cert part with nar as far as
> > prepping the motors as well since there is no prep. I confirmed this
> > with Nar HQ

> > Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.  I really want to fly
> > this bird and it is looking VERY good for it to be done in time for
> > Naram.

> > Since time is critical they need to be shipped soon (either option)
> > the H73 and 97's I can get shipped to me I think (no leup needed) but
> > the H55's I can't for obvious resons.

> > I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> > so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> > stuff this big :-)

> > Thanks !!!
> > Chris Taylor
> > http://www.nerys.com/


 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Chris Taylor J » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:24:19


except that even one of those motors listed would probably tear it apart.
the H128 won't (92mph) it would PROBABLY survive but sims say 96 feet max
altitude.  I can throw it that high and would likely not be "safe"

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


Quote:
> Mr Hound,
> It appears he is looking only for Black Jack motors.
> Chris, does this model require two motors?
> Do you really want to cluster Black Jack motors?
> Black Jack motors are not in production yet.

> If its a cluster then you should use at least WL motors.
> I know you can get H128 motors. Thoes are nice.
> Pro38s light right away and are also great for clusters.
> And the H153 is TRA certified so you can use them for NAR certs.

> RDH8



> > Hey chris,

> > What vendor did you look at locally?



> > > Well it looks like the onsite HPR vendor is OUT of the motors I need
> > > :-(

> > > I am checking to see if countdown has them but they are not listed on
> > > his site so I am not too hopeful.

> > > so 2 things.  anyone know where I can get either 6 H73's OR 6 H97's
> > > (which depends on final mass of glider) I need a minimum of 2 to fly
> > > but would like to fly it 3 times. (that is off course assuming the
> > > first flight works :-) hehehe

> > > ALSO I may be able to get H55's but there is that LEUP problem.  the
> > > letter of the law says that I am ok as long as I do not buy or
> > > physically handle the motors.

> > > Is there anyone who will be at naram with a LEUP who would not mind
> > > "buying" and "handling" H55's for me at naram.  all you need to do is
> > > purchase them under your name and insert them into my bird. Nar is ok
> > > with this as long as it is ok legally. that means I can not touch
> > > them. When I pay you I am paying for your "services and advise on HPR
> > > for Naram" :-)

> > > since they are SU I am also ok on the cert part with nar as far as
> > > prepping the motors as well since there is no prep. I confirmed this
> > > with Nar HQ

> > > Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.  I really want to fly
> > > this bird and it is looking VERY good for it to be done in time for
> > > Naram.

> > > Since time is critical they need to be shipped soon (either option)
> > > the H73 and 97's I can get shipped to me I think (no leup needed) but
> > > the H55's I can't for obvious resons.

> > > I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> > > so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> > > stuff this big :-)

> > > Thanks !!!
> > > Chris Taylor
> > > http://www.nerys.com/


 
 
 

Need Level 1 Engine assistance for Naram in texas this year.

Post by Chris Taylor J » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:25:12


so far it already has.  I have talked with the folks running and they are ok
with it so far pending onsite approval off course.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


Quote:


> > I should have the glider 90% complete tommorrow as well as it carrier
> > so I can get it weighed thursday (found a hobby shop that can weigh
> > stuff this big :-)

> You seem to be assuming that this thing will get past the RSO approval...

> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
> >>> To reply, remove the planet name <<<
> Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdf
> NIRA: http://www.nira-rocketry.org NAR: http://www.nar.org

>         We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the
>         principles of a democratic society, accountable government and
>         international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner
>         consistent with the Constitution.

> 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
> Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/