New World Record at Black Rock

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by John H. Cato, Jr » Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Folks,

Been following the progress of the British 'Thrust' and Breedlove's
'Spirit of America' efforts at going supersonic there at Black Rock here
for the last few days.

Yesterday, they got above 700 mph for the first time in world history --
but didn't capture the record because the second of two (required) runs
must occur within 60 minutes of each other -- which this didn't happen.

Well, today it did -- and we now have a new world land speed record of
714+ mph (average) -- with the top run at nearly 100 mph over the LAST
record at 728 mph -- set right here at Black Rock back in 1983 by the
SAME TEAM (then 633 mph) -- the British effort headed by Richard Noble.

Go check out the results at:

   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/09/0926/thrust.shtml

This is the BBC coverage and would be 'slanted' toward the British view
(which I think is better, actually <g>).

It'll be interesting next time I'm out there -- guess there'll be a NEW
sign welcoming folks into Gerlach there at the city limits (the old sign
touted the 'old' record -- so I guess the new one will tout the 'new'
record -- assuming it doesn't change again -- they're going for the
'supersonic' record and looks like they'll get it).

Congratulations to the British team.  Go 'git' that Mach 1 trophy now.

-- john.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by John H. Cato, Jr » Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Folks,

Been following the progress of the British 'Thrust' and Breedlove's
'Spirit of America' efforts at going supersonic there at Black Rock here
for the last few days.

Yesterday, they got above 700 mph for the first time in world history --
but didn't capture the record because the second of two (required) runs
must occur within 60 minutes of each other -- which this didn't happen.

Well, today it did -- and we now have a new world land speed record of
714+ mph (average) -- with the top run at nearly 100 mph over the LAST
record at 728 mph -- set right here at Black Rock back in 1983 by the
SAME TEAM (then 633 mph) -- the British effort headed by Richard Noble.

Go check out the results at:

   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/09/0926/thrust.shtml

This is the BBC coverage and would be 'slanted' toward the British view
(which I think is better, actually <g>).

It'll be interesting next time I'm out there -- guess there'll be a NEW
sign welcoming folks into Gerlach there at the city limits (the old sign
touted the 'old' record -- so I guess the new one will tout the 'new'
record -- assuming it doesn't change again -- they're going for the
'supersonic' record and looks like they'll get it).

-- john.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> Been following the progress of the British 'Thrust' and Breedlove's
> 'Spirit of America' efforts at going supersonic there at Black Rock here
> for the last few days.

> Yesterday, they got above 700 mph for the first time in world history --
> but didn't capture the record because the second of two (required) runs
> must occur within 60 minutes of each other -- which this didn't happen.

> Well, today it did -- and we now have a new world land speed record of
> 714+ mph (average) -- with the top run at nearly 100 mph over the LAST
> record at 728 mph -- set right here at Black Rock back in 1983 by the
> SAME TEAM (then 633 mph) -- the British effort headed by Richard Noble.

I thought I remembered someone doing runs at least this fast way back in the
70's or early 80's. The name of the car may have been something like Blue
Flame, ran on natural gas, and had a Sidewinder kick motor to push it over
the top in the measured mile. I thought they claimed a mach one run. Am I
full of it, was their speed that much lower than these folks just did, or
are there some sort of seperate divisions depending on car technology?

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Abort, Retry, Fail?"

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by nojun » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> Well, today it did -- and we now have a new world land speed record of
> 714+ mph (average) -- with the top run at nearly 100 mph over the LAST
> record at 728 mph -- set right here at Black Rock back in 1983 by the
> SAME TEAM (then 633 mph) -- the British effort headed by Richard Noble.

Yeah, but can they do it on the 520 bridge from Seattle to Bellevue
during the morning rush while talking on a cellphone, drinking a latte,
getting the eyeliner on straight, and still keep the real estate section
of the paper propped up on the steering wheel?

--
Mike
NAR #70953 - Sr./Insured
SeaNAR - The Seattle Area NAR Section #568
NO Junk Email, please! Real email to: amphoto [at] wolfenet [dot] com.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by Henr » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> Well, today it did -- and we now have a new world land speed record of
> 714+ mph (average) -- with the top run at nearly 100 mph over the LAST
> record at 728 mph -- set right here at Black Rock back in 1983 by the
> SAME TEAM (then 633 mph) -- the British effort headed by Richard Noble.
> -- john.

-------

I was told once, that your car travels an average of one
football field (at 60 mph, or something like that) when
you sneeze while driving...

I guess at those speeds, your nose would be flat against
your face, and reading a book would be too shaky...  ;-)

--

Henry Oeser
NOVAAR#205, MDTRA#68, EVARA#82, NCTRA#40.
NAR#65336,  TRA#4782

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by The Silent Observe » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> > Been following the progress of the British 'Thrust' and Breedlove's
> > 'Spirit of America' efforts at going supersonic there at Black Rock here
> > for the last few days.

> > Yesterday, they got above 700 mph for the first time in world history --
> > but didn't capture the record because the second of two (required) runs
> > must occur within 60 minutes of each other -- which this didn't happen.

> > Well, today it did -- and we now have a new world land speed record of
> > 714+ mph (average) -- with the top run at nearly 100 mph over the LAST
> > record at 728 mph -- set right here at Black Rock back in 1983 by the
> > SAME TEAM (then 633 mph) -- the British effort headed by Richard Noble.

> I thought I remembered someone doing runs at least this fast way back in the
> 70's or early 80's. The name of the car may have been something like Blue
> Flame, ran on natural gas, and had a Sidewinder kick motor to push it over
> the top in the measured mile. I thought they claimed a mach one run. Am I
> full of it, was their speed that much lower than these folks just did, or
> are there some sort of seperate divisions depending on car technology?

No separate divisions -- but there are rules requiring back-to-back
runs, in opposite directions, within one hour; the recognized speed is
the average for the two passes through the measured mile.  The Budweiser
Rocket car, back in about 1978, made one run at about 700 mph
(unofficial), and was photographed with what appeared to be shock wave
effects on the ground directly under the nose (indicating transonic
effects, though probably still below Mach 1), but was unable to turn
around and make the return run.

The Blue Flame was, IIRC, the first car to set a Land Speed Record over
600 mph -- running, as you recalled, on compressed or liquefied natural
gas and liquid oxygen, with a Sidewinder motor for added kick.  This was
in about the 1974-1976 time frame, as I recall it, with Gary Gabelich at
the controls.

FWIW, the Spirit of America is still out at Black Rock, too -- a car
with a better reliability record than that of Thrust, and based more on
finess than brute power; it uses a single jet engine instead of two, has
much less frontal area, and uses some significant aero trickery in an
attempt to prevent shock waves from getting trapped under the body.
This is the same car (with a few more modifications) that veered off
course on two wheels and got salt rash on the left-side air intake last
summer -- but Mr. Breedlove wasn't satisfied with becoming the only
person to survive losing control of a car at 600+ mph; he wants the
record, and is very much ready to go 700+ and try for Mach 1.

Anyone notice the rockets are all gone, and they're back to jets again?
There were jet cars in the 1960s -- machines like the Green Monster,
with a >huge< single engine and a tiny control cabin alongside it; they
were replaced by rockets in the 1970s, and the jets started to come back
again by the 1980s...

--
Take no thought for the morrow; that's your privilege.  But don't
complain if when it gets here you're off guard.  -- John Brunner

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages             http://members.aol.com/silntobsvr/launches.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by Mark Simpso » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> >>The Blue Flame was, IIRC, the first car to set a Land Speed Record over
> 600 mph -- running, as you recalled, on compressed or liquefied natural
> gas and liquid oxygen, with a Sidewinder motor for added kick.  This was
> in about the 1974-1976 time frame, as I recall it, with Gary Gabelich at
> the controls.<<

> I thought Breedlove ran over 600 mph in the late 60's, then the Blue Flame
> beat that?

> As for the Sidewinder, that was not in the Blue Flame (wouldn't have a
> blue flame then now would it? <g>).  That was in the Budweiser rocket car
> (Owned by Hal Needham), using hydrogen peroxide fuel, that added the
> sidewinder later on for some extra kick.

> - George Gassaway

They had a special on the land speed record on Discovery last week after
the rocketry series one night.  George is correct, it was Hal Needham's
car that had the sidewinder on it and went over 700 mph.  He was
disqualified because the governing body said it was too dangerous.
Imagine, traveling at 700 mph in a car and someone b_tches about it not
being safe to do so with a sidewinder, but OK with a pair of jet engines
strapped on.

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level I

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by GCGassaw » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>>The Blue Flame was, IIRC, the first car to set a Land Speed Record over

600 mph -- running, as you recalled, on compressed or liquefied natural
gas and liquid oxygen, with a Sidewinder motor for added kick.  This was
in about the 1974-1976 time frame, as I recall it, with Gary Gabelich at
the controls.<<

I thought Breedlove ran over 600 mph in the late 60's, then the Blue Flame
beat that?

As for the Sidewinder, that was not in the Blue Flame (wouldn't have a
blue flame then now would it? <g>).  That was in the Budweiser rocket car
(Owned by Hal Needham), using hydrogen peroxide fuel, that added the
sidewinder later on for some extra kick.

- George Gassaway

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by Tom All » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Howdy Mark    It kinda reminds me of a post or 2 on rmr. Probably his
forward closure opened & plugged the aft closure. This in turn eroded
the land so bad that nuclear winter killed all life on earth.
2 billion years into the future intellegent life from the Crab Nebula
land on Earth & guess what?
The end of all life was caused by Aerotech & TRA.
Tom Allen
TRA 5405 L2
NAR 70651Sr L2
Tulsa Area Rocketry Assn.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by David Takemoto-Weer » Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:00:00



:
: The Blue Flame was, IIRC, the first car to set a Land Speed Record over
: 600 mph -- running, as you recalled, on compressed or liquefied natural
: gas and liquid oxygen, with a Sidewinder motor for added kick.  This was
: in about the 1974-1976 time frame, as I recall it, with Gary Gabelich at
: the controls.

No, Craig Breedlove in his second jetcar, Spirit of America Sonic 1, was
the first with an official LSR over 600 mph. He was also the first to set
LSRs over 400 and 500 mph. Gabelich did set a higher 600+ record later in
the Blue Flame.  
==============================================================================
David Takemoto-Weerts                               Ph. 916/752-BIKE
Bicycle Program Coordinator                         Fax 916/752-8875    
Transportation & Parking Services
University of California
Davis, CA 95616          

The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the
University of California.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by Mark Johns » Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>Anyone notice the rockets are all gone, and they're back to jets again?
>There were jet cars in the 1960s -- machines like the Green Monster,
>with a >huge< single engine and a tiny control cabin alongside it; they
>were replaced by rockets in the 1970s, and the jets started to come back
>again by the 1980s...

The last rocket car that actually held the record, I believe, was Walt
Arfons' (Art's brother) Wingfoot Express. It had a more-or-less
conical shape and a huge cluster of JATO rockets inside the base. It
didn't get anywhere close to the record of the time until they added
another 10 or 12 JATO's to the outside of the vehicle. Cost to run:
$25,000 per trip (one way) in 1964!

Rockets seem to have disappeared because jets are technically simpler,
with only one fuel system instead of two, and the added advantage that
their efficiency actually *increases* as the vehicle builds speed,
from the ramjet effect. The record that was three steps back (622+)
was, I think, held by a hydrogen peroxide rocket - the idea is to blow
H202 over a catalyst pack under pressure, causing rapid decomposition
and clean propulsion. It works, but the specific impulse is limited by
comparison with two-fuel rockets and jets.

Peroxide rockets have been used in a variety of other motorsport
related applications -- rocket go-kart dragsters, full size rocket
dragsters, even rocket roller skates. All the above have been piloted
by Rocketman Enterprises proprietor Ky Michaelson at one time or
another.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by The Silent Observe » Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> >Anyone notice the rockets are all gone, and they're back to jets again?
> >There were jet cars in the 1960s -- machines like the Green Monster,
> >with a >huge< single engine and a tiny control cabin alongside it; they
> >were replaced by rockets in the 1970s, and the jets started to come back
> >again by the 1980s...

> The last rocket car that actually held the record, I believe, was Walt
> Arfons' (Art's brother) Wingfoot Express. It had a more-or-less
> conical shape and a huge cluster of JATO rockets inside the base. It
> didn't get anywhere close to the record of the time until they added
> another 10 or 12 JATO's to the outside of the vehicle. Cost to run:
> $25,000 per trip (one way) in 1964!

I think you're a decade off on this -- the Blue Flame and Budweiser both
ran within a couple years of the Bicentennial (yes, that's now 21+ years
ago!), and the Blue Flame held the record for a while -- and IIRC was
the last rocket car to do so, after the Budweiser failed to repeat its
700+ one-way run.  There was also a rocket version of Spirit of America,
around that same time...

Quote:

> Peroxide rockets have been used in a variety of other motorsport
> related applications -- rocket go-kart dragsters, full size rocket
> dragsters, even rocket roller skates. All the above have been piloted
> by Rocketman Enterprises proprietor Ky Michaelson at one time or
> another.

Heh...I sometimes wonder if Ky isn't Wile E. Coyote's smarter, more
coordinated cousin...

--
Take no thought for the morrow; that's your privilege.  But don't
complain if when it gets here you're off guard.  -- John Brunner

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages             http://members.aol.com/silntobsvr/launches.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by Balthez » Tue, 30 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>The Blue Flame was, IIRC, the first car to set a Land Speed Record over
>600 mph -- running, as you recalled, on compressed or liquefied natural
>gas and liquid oxygen, with a Sidewinder motor for added kick.  This was
>in about the 1974-1976 time frame, as I recall it, with Gary Gabelich at
>the controls.

This was just on the History Channel. IIRC, The Budweiser car  was
disqualified due to the Sidewinder for some reason or another. BTW, I
witnessed a drag race between Art Arfon's Green Monster and the Blue Flame
at Motor City Dragway in 1965 or 6. Impressive! Both cars turned 3 second
ET's with speeds around 350mph, however, I suspect the timing clocks were
'tweaked' to wow the crowd. Lots of noise and smoke!

Bruce Kirchner

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by GCGassaw » Tue, 30 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>>This was just on the History Channel. IIRC, The Budweiser car  was

disqualified due to the Sidewinder for some reason or another.<<

No, it didn't count as an official world record because they did not make
a second run in the opposite direction within an hour. And they never
intended to make a second run.  So they had the unofficial fastest car, and
if they'd broken Mach 1 they'd have had the unique situation of being the
first to go Mach-1 but not having that feat recognized as an official speed
record.

AFAIK, there are no "rules" that prevent rocket cars from being recognized
in setting land speed records, otherwise the Blue Flame never would have
held the record. The "rules" problem is more in regards to making that 2nd
run in an hour, a rocket car is trickier to run again quickly than a jet
car is. And that jet engines are more reliable and cheaper to run.

- George Gassaway

 
 
 

New World Record at Black Rock

Post by Bob Kapl » Tue, 30 Sep 1997 04:00:00


n response to my previous question, I recieved the following email from Ky,
and thought it worth sharing here. I hope he doesn't mind.

"The Budweiser car made at least 2 runs over 700 mph back in the late 70's.
The car was driven by Stan Barrett.  It was a hydrogen peroxide hybrid motor
with a sidewinder rocket for a little extra kick.  The other car that you
were trying to think of was the Blue Flame, built by Pete Farnsworth -
driven by the late Gary Gabolich.  They held the record for almost 15 years
at 622 mph in the flying mile and 638 in the kilometer. Jodi & I just
returned from Black Rock.  Craig Breedlove has been a personal friend of
mine for 30 years and this thing isn't over yet.  I just hope that nobody
gets hurt.
Check out the Rocketman website I have the pictures that we just brought
back from Craig's and Noble's car. http://www.spacestar.com/users/kytec

Ky Michaelson
Rocketman"

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Abort, Retry, Fail?"