Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by PaulDimi » Thu, 07 Nov 1996 04:00:00



I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?
Are they worth buying?  For what type of rocketry?  I'm into A-E right
now.  I would appreciate your feedback and opinions.   None of them are
cheap ($40).  But I don't want to miss a great opportunity.  So tell me:
Am I missing a good opportunity?

Paul.

Fly Baby Fly!

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Jack Wike » Thu, 07 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>Date:       6 Nov 1996 21:04:17 -0500


>Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
>Subject:    Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

>I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
>priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?
>Are they worth buying?  For what type of rocketry?  I'm into A-E right
>now.  I would appreciate your feedback and opinions.   None of them are
>cheap ($40).  But I don't want to miss a great opportunity.  So tell me:
>Am I missing a good opportunity?

>Paul.

>Fly Baby Fly!

The Jayhawk is my all-time favorite kit!!  (I even scaled it up)  Great kit,
but strengthen the fins with epoxy, or they will break at each landing.  If
you gotta use a "D" engine, only use a D12-3, or the rocket will hit the
ground before the chute comes out.  This bird really comes alive with an
Aerotech F12-5 reload (ecspecially with the smoke trail).

Sorry...Haven't gotten a Terrier yet.

Hey, I just built a swat (with a "D" mount)...anyone have any advice for ME?
Jack Wiker  TRA#(real high)

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Martin Rogo » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
>priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?
>Are they worth buying?  For what type of rocketry?  I'm into A-E right
>now.  I would appreciate your feedback and opinions.   None of them are
>cheap ($40).  But I don't want to miss a great opportunity.  So tell me:
>Am I missing a good opportunity?

>Paul.

>Fly Baby Fly!

I mail ordered the Terrier/Sandhawk for about $27 plus a little
shipping.  The fin canister is a two piece plastic shell, and the four
fins are plastic.  The fins almost surface glue on the fin canister.
The payload section is a two piece plastic shell.  The nose cone is a
two piece plastic shell.  The nose cone and payload lock together with
two small plastic pins.

The four fins for the Terrier are plastic, and are a sort of two piece
plastic assembly.  The top of the Terrier is plastic and slides up
inside the Sandhawk motor mount to hold the two together during
flight.

I did see one of these Sandhawks fly last Saturday, and it looked
good.  I might change my mind when this kit is assembled, but I am not
sure that this will be a durable rocket.  I wish it was a more
conventional kit - wood fins, paper tubes, and regular one piece nose
cone.  I have seen one Jayhawk fly, and I think I would recommend it
over the Terrier/Sandhawk.

Martin Rogoff
N5GPS
NAR # 65545


 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Mark Scheeve » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hey, I just built a swat (with a "D" mount)...anyone have any advice for ME?
> Jack Wiker  TRA#(real high)

I've got a S.W.A.T. that I built stock (arghhh! must have been > 5 years
ago; time flies).  Very draggy; even on C6-3's it ejects past apogee.
D12-3 might be a good match.  It's relatively heavy, and comes down
fast.  Because of that, and because of all the oddly projecting fins, it
tends to lose fins on landing.  If I were ever to build another, I would
consider trying one of these alternatives:

        1) TTW fins;
        2) two-piece recovery (like the Mean Machine mods that have been                          
discussed here recently);
        3) rear ejection (so it lands on the nose);
        4) some sort of recovery harness (a la the Saturn V upper part) so
it                         recovers horizontally.

Of course, those suggestions aren't much help if you've already got it
built :-)

I wonder if it would survive an E?  I'll bet that forward swept ventral
fin will flutter like mad!
--
Mark Scheevel
Austin, TX



 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Balthe.. » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
(PaulDiming) writes:
>I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
>priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?

I had a bad experience with the Terrier/Sandhawk. The quality of the parts
were pretty bad. Plywood centering rings were broken in half. Nosecone was
cast in a defective mold - lots of flash and one half was a little bigger
than the other. All four of the booster fins were warped badly. I fixed
all the defects only to ruin the rocket with a bad paint job. Was so
frustrated I pitched the whole thing in the trash.

Bruce

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Frank J. Bur » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00


I think the Terrier-Sandhawk is one of their better kits to come out
in the last few years.  When flying the two stages together it is hard
to pack enough chute in the small upper body tube, and I hate two chute
recovery in this rocket, it just begs for tangling or one chute not
getting out.  It does fly really well though on D's and E-15's(aerotech)

The Jayhawk is pretty lame on D motors, not bad on E-15's or E-18's
and I'd use the spinerons, or add more nose weight.  I saw one weathercock
pretty bad on a D-12-5 which was too long, and it didn't spin enough to
add stability.  I thought the decals were great, but the kit was lame.
The laminated balsa wings, and hardwood leading edges were garbage, as
were the centering rings.  The nose cone was alright, but the two piece
vacuuformed canards, and vacuuformed conduit were really bad, IMHO.

Optima, don't know.  

You should be able to get the Terrier-Sandhawk for a cheaper price
Mail order still.

Frank


Quote:

>I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
>priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?
>Are they worth buying?  For what type of rocketry?  I'm into A-E right
>now.  I would appreciate your feedback and opinions.   None of them are
>cheap ($40).  But I don't want to miss a great opportunity.  So tell me:
>Am I missing a good opportunity?

>Paul.

>Fly Baby Fly!

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by -Wiersbe,R. » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
>priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?
>Are they worth buying?  For what type of rocketry?  I'm into A-E right
>now.  I would appreciate your feedback and opinions.   None of them are
>cheap ($40).  But I don't want to miss a great opportunity.  So tell me:
>Am I missing a good opportunity?

>Paul.

>Fly Baby Fly!

The Terrier-Sandhawk is discontinued (or rumored to be), but regardless
it's a great kit. The Sandhawk can be flown by itself, and you can build
other upper stages to put on the Terrier.

Or you can do what I did - stage it. Great project if you've never done
it before. The plans are on sunsite:

/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/PLANS/terrier_sandhawk.ps

--

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Dave Lyl » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>The Terrier-Sandhawk is discontinued (or rumored to be), but regardless
>it's a great kit. The Sandhawk can be flown by itself, and you can build
>other upper stages to put on the Terrier.

>Or you can do what I did - stage it. Great project if you've never done
>it before. The plans are on sunsite:

>/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/PLANS/terrier_sandhawk.ps

What do most of you use to read/print these .ps files if you
don't have a PostScript printer?  

Dave

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by tmiller.. » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Paul,

If it's the Estes Jayhawk and Terrier/Sandhawk - I've built them both.

The Jayhawk was a much better kit, between the two.  It also looks better
when finished properly.  The T/S flies better, but has some intentional
scaling changes. Both require some modification to be better - mostly with
your recovery system (ie - put on a much longer shock chord).

If I could buy one of the two I've built, it would be the Jayhawk.

TMiller135

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Kurt D. Schachne » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> (PaulDiming) writes:

> >I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
> >priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?

> I had a bad experience with the Terrier/Sandhawk. The quality of the parts
> were pretty bad. Plywood centering rings were broken in half. Nosecone was
> cast in a defective mold - lots of flash and one half was a little bigger
> than the other. All four of the booster fins were warped badly. I fixed
> all the defects only to ruin the rocket with a bad paint job. Was so
> frustrated I pitched the whole thing in the trash.

> Bruce

Bruce,

I am sorry to hear that. Your frustration really comes through your posting! I
think I'd have done the same thing.

Kurt

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by pauldim.. » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
Rogoff) writes:

>I mail ordered the Terrier/Sandhawk for about $27 plus a little
>shipping.  

Martin, which firm did you order it from?  Sounds like a great deal!  Do I
need to place a large order, or were you able to buy just that item?
What's the average discount offerred?  I haven't dealt with any firm
except Countdown and Hobby Place.

Paul.

Fly Baby Fly!

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by pauldim.. » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Many, Many thanks to all of you who posted replies here and to me via
e-mail!!!

All of your input was very helpful to me in deciding what I should do.  At
this point, it appears that the concensus is that the Jayhawk is worth
pursuing.  But that I should check mail order firms first who can cut a
better deal for me.  

The input on the T/S is varied, but generally negative overall.  Some
possitive replies, but fewer than for the Jayhawk.  

Not too much response on the Ultima, although it appears to be a pretty
solidly built rocket.  Perhaps like a Shadow?

Again, thanks!  Just the kind of response I've come to appreciate on rmr!

Paul.

Fly Baby Fly!

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Tom Emerso » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00




Quote:
> I've just located a source for the Jayhawk, Ultima and Terrier/Sandhawk
> priced at retail.  I was wondering, what do y'all think of these kits?
> Are they worth buying?  For what type of rocketry?  I'm into A-E right
> now.  I would appreciate your feedback and opinions.   None of them are
> cheap ($40).  But I don't want to miss a great opportunity.  So tell me:
> Am I missing a good opportunity?

I'll echo many of the terrier/sandhawk observations already mentioned and
add a few:

  -  the plastic parts for the sandhawk didn't fit well at first, but
forcing them together with a *** band while the glue dried seemed to
help :)

  -  the "locking nubs" on the nose cone are a joke!  one broke off while I
was building it, so I "super-scaled" the locking pin by using s***pieces
of the "parts tree" that they came off of in the first place -- I HOPE it
will hold...

  -  I went the "authentic" route of using music-wire for the antennas
[what the hell, it was only 15 cents for the wire...].  Found that heating
the wire with a bic-torch was sufficient to get them "into position" on the
body, then held down with a drop of CA  [looks like shit, though :) ]

  -  [if I were to do this over again, I might consider making a payload
that could make active use of the "antennas", perhaps an FM radio
transmitter and a mike?]

  -  When I was cutting off the "flash" on the upper stage fins, I mistook
a TINY bit on the center of each fin as a flash-point, sanded it down, then
realized this tiny "nub" was SUPPOSED to go into a TINY HOLE on the base of
the rocket...

  -  the sandhawk is complete less the launch lug -- I expect to launch it
this weekend if someone has a cage/rail-launcher at ROC-stock IV [hint
hint]  I'll put the terrier portion together tonight, shouldn't take long
[I hope, just fins and an engine mount...]

  -  When I first saw this, I thought "Cool! what an awesome two-stage kit
this looks like"; then I read the fine print about it really being two
different "single stage" rockets  --- No problem, I thought, I'll stage 'em
anyway!  [still working on the logistics of how I'm gonna airstart the
second stage, the length seems to be just a bit beyond the theoretical
12-inch maximum for "gap staging"]

  -  In order to stage these, however, I'm gonna chuck the plastic staging
coupler right off and have a friend turn an aluminum one on a lathe for me.
(the aluminum is just a bit more fireproof than plastic...)  I plan on
making "real" vent holes rather than paint on some black dots to
"represent" said vents.

If you are in the southern California area this weekend, look for me at
ROC-Stock IV and I'll show you what I've done with mine, then you can make
your own decision... :)

Tom

 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by Martin Rogo » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>Rogoff) writes:

>>I mail ordered the Terrier/Sandhawk for about $27 plus a little
>>shipping.  

>Martin, which firm did you order it from?  Sounds like a great deal!  Do I
>need to place a large order, or were you able to buy just that item?
>What's the average discount offerred?  I haven't dealt with any firm
>except Countdown and Hobby Place.

>Paul.

>Fly Baby Fly!

I have mail ordered everthing from Mountainside Hobbies so far.

http://msh.ptd.net/mshpage1.htm

I have heard good things about Magnum also.

http://www.tyrell.net/~scwhite/magnum/magnum.html

Magnum is cheaper on Estes kits, but the shipping seems to be more
expensive.  If you are going to order lots of Estes stuff, then Magnum
might work out better.  For smaller orders, or orders combined with
other stuff, Mountainside is cheaper.  Check out the web sites and
compare.

Martin Rogoff
N5GPS
NAR # 65545


 
 
 

Jayhawk, Ultima & Terrier/Sandhawk: Good Kits?

Post by The Silent Observe » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> So here we have quite a
> large payload, with a mouse in it falling at a pretty high velocity into a
> cow pasture. When we found it, the mouse was fine, a little shaken up, but
> fine none-the-less, and the payload section was in perfect shape. This does
> mean that the Sandhawks payload section is quite durable and the booster
> returned to earth untouched.

This also says a great deal about the durability of field mice, if not
about the good sense of 13-year-olds.  B)  ...say, are you sure that
wasn't a shrew in that capsule?  B)

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