LOC Onyx motor retention

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Quinste » Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:00:00



I just got my LOC Onyx in the mail today (I ordered it on Monday and today,
Wednesday, it was at my door!!!! - How's that for fast!?) and have a question.
I notice there is no motor hook or other sort of motor retention.  The
instructions recomend a tape ring  to keep the engine from moving forward in
the mount, but also just recommend tape (friction fit) to keep the motor from
ejecting back out.  Is a tape friction fit on 24mm and 29mm motors enough to
keep the motor from ejecting out at apogee? If not, is there something cheap
and simple I can do for motor retention.  This is my first kit where a motor
hook and different sized spacer rings (i.e. Aerotech kits) weren't included.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Quinn McCleery

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Cw iceb » Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
><HTML><PRE>Subject: LOC Onyx motor retention

>Date: Wed, Apr 29, 1998 17:39 EDT

>I just got my LOC Onyx in the mail today (I ordered it on Monday and today,
>Wednesday, it was at my door!!!! - How's that for fast!?) and have a
>question.
>I notice there is no motor hook or other sort of motor retention.  The
>instructions recomend a tape ring  to keep the engine from moving forward in
>the mount, but also just recommend tape (friction fit) to keep the motor from
>ejecting back out.  Is a tape friction fit on 24mm and 29mm motors enough to
>keep the motor from ejecting out at apogee? If not, is there something cheap
>and simple I can do for motor retention.  This is my first kit where a motor
>hook and different sized spacer rings (i.e. Aerotech kits) weren't included.
>Any help will be greatly appreciated.

>Quinn McCleery

Quinn,

You'll find that on "most kits - with the exception of Aerotech" they will not
include a engine hook because that 29mm rockets the motors are all verying
lengths from E-H!  You can friction fit, as many do, or you can install a
positive retention system such as Kaplow Klips!

Christopher D. Williams
NAR#  getting very soon (hopefully)
TRA# nope
MSRS# 37

NO SPAM MAN

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Ron Zeppi » Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> I just got my LOC Onyx in the mail today (I ordered it on Monday and today,
> Wednesday, it was at my door!!!! - How's that for fast!?) and have a question.
> I notice there is no motor hook or other sort of motor retention.  The
> instructions recomend a tape ring  to keep the engine from moving forward in
> the mount, but also just recommend tape (friction fit) to keep the motor from
> ejecting back out.  Is a tape friction fit on 24mm and 29mm motors enough to
> keep the motor from ejecting out at apogee? If not, is there something cheap
> and simple I can do for motor retention.  This is my first kit where a motor
> hook and different sized spacer rings (i.e. Aerotech kits) weren't included.
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.

> Quinn McCleery

I'm building my Onyx as a 38mm. I'm going to use either motor retention
clips, or safety wire. Haven't decided yet!!

Ron Zeppin
TRA# 6024 L1
AHPRA

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Steve Bloo » Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>I just got my LOC Onyx in the mail today (I ordered it on Monday and today,
>Wednesday, it was at my door!!!! - How's that for fast!?) and have a
question.
>I notice there is no motor hook or other sort of motor retention.

snipster the quinster..

We have a LOC Lil' Nuke and fly it all the time with no PMS.  (positive
motor system)  When we built it we made sure to let the motor mount extend
1/2 inch below the aft centering ring.  Use a tape thrust ring the same dia
as the 29mm LOC MMT.  Then tape the motor to the tube with several wraps of
tape.  Works every time.

Steve Bloom
buy em, build em, launch em, crash em,
read, ask, learn.

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by JNeuman » Fri, 01 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>I notice there is no motor hook or other sort of motor retention.  The
>instructions recomend a tape ring  to keep the engine from moving forward in
>the mount, but also just recommend tape (friction fit) to keep the motor from
>ejecting back out.  Is a tape friction fit on 24mm and 29mm motors enough to
>keep the motor from ejecting out at apogee?

I've only had my Onyx for a short while and have flown it twice on f-50's using
friction fit.  Work great both times.
Jim Neuman
SoAR # 571  member # 030
NAR # 72194
http://members.tripod.com/~SOAR1/
 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Chuck Wald » Fri, 01 May 1998 04:00:00


Definitely use Kaplow Klips.  This rocket was made for them.

Chuck

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Tom Binfor » Fri, 01 May 1998 04:00:00


snip

Build the rocket with about 1/2" of the motor tube behind the rear
centering ring - can recess the rear ring in the main body tube. Make
the tape thrust ring on the motor the same OD as the motor tube.
Slip the motor in and wrap 3 or 4 layers of masking tape over the joint.
Tom

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Jeff Gortatowsk » Fri, 01 May 1998 04:00:00


Take a look at http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html

I have put these in rockets with as little room as a 2.6 inch body tube with a 38mm motor
mount tube.

As for a masking tape thrust ring, that works everytime. It's the friction fit that can be
voodoo at times. Your mileage may vary...

Pay Forward,
Jeff

--
This message has been packed using modern automated machinery. Packed
by weight not volume, some settling of contents may have occurred during
shipment. "Trust but verify" - Ronald W. Regan on assembling a RMS.


NAR: 70988 Level I   Member: ROC, DART, SCRA      TRA: 5678      IAR# 43

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Quinste » Fri, 01 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>We have a LOC Lil' Nuke and fly it all the time with no PMS.  (positive
>motor system)  When we built it we made sure to let the motor mount extend
>1/2 inch below the aft centering ring.  Use a tape thrust ring the same dia
>as the 29mm LOC MMT.  Then tape the motor to the tube with several wraps of
>tape.  Works every time.

Thanks for all the help everyone.  I like the idea of extending the motor tube
an extra 1/2" and using tape for retention, but unfortunately have already
glued it at the 1/8" the instructions suggest. How does saftey wire work?

Quinn  

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Chuck Wald » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00


I finished my Onyx and a Big Brute before I heard about Kaplow Klips.
I installed them by drilling two small holes in the aft centering ring
and inserting two expanding plastic sheetrock screws.  When I insert
the screws into the plastic "nuts" they expand and hold the Klips very
securely.

If you install the Klips this way your cost will be about $1.00 for
parts.  As a bonus, you will be able to tighten your Klips down with
any Phillips screwdriver instead of an Allen wrench.

Chuck

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Bob Kapl » Sat, 02 May 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> I finished my Onyx and a Big Brute before I heard about Kaplow Klips.
> I installed them by drilling two small holes in the aft centering ring
> and inserting two expanding plastic sheetrock screws.  When I insert
> the screws into the plastic "nuts" they expand and hold the Klips very
> securely.

> If you install the Klips this way your cost will be about $1.00 for
> parts.  As a bonus, you will be able to tighten your Klips down with
> any Phillips screwdriver instead of an Allen wrench.

Just a quick comment. I deliberately chose cap screws over phillips for this
purpose. In installing the screws, you're often working in an awkward
location. The cap screws will stay on the end of the allen wrench even when
sideways. Phillips screws will not stay on a screwdriver at that almost any
angle.

BTW, Anyone know where to get small size allen bits for cordless
screwdrivers? This week I actually machined a 3/32 one from s***metal to
use for all the bolt on fin rockets (mostly crayon banks) I now have. But
I'd really rather not have to do that again ;-)

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Abort, Retry, Fail?"

Kaplow Klips:   http://www.FoundCollection.com/
NIRA:           http://www.FoundCollection.com/

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by The Silent Observe » Sun, 03 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:


> > I finished my Onyx and a Big Brute before I heard about Kaplow Klips.
> > I installed them by drilling two small holes in the aft centering ring
> > and inserting two expanding plastic sheetrock screws.  When I insert
> > the screws into the plastic "nuts" they expand and hold the Klips very
> > securely.

> > If you install the Klips this way your cost will be about $1.00 for
> > parts.  As a bonus, you will be able to tighten your Klips down with
> > any Phillips screwdriver instead of an Allen wrench.

> Just a quick comment. I deliberately chose cap screws over phillips for this
> purpose. In installing the screws, you're often working in an awkward
> location. The cap screws will stay on the end of the allen wrench even when
> sideways. Phillips screws will not stay on a screwdriver at that almost any
> angle.

Bob, I seldom have trouble keeping screws on my Phillips screwdriver
bits -- but my screwdriver is strongly magnetized, and only brass,
aluminum, and some stainless screws don't hold.  B)

Quote:
> BTW, Anyone know where to get small size allen bits for cordless
> screwdrivers? This week I actually machined a 3/32 one from s***metal to
> use for all the bolt on fin rockets (mostly crayon banks) I now have. But
> I'd really rather not have to do that again ;-)

I have a full set of allen-head bits for my magnetic screwdriver, which
would also be usable in a cordless or a drill, as they're the standard
size hex shank.  You can buy these places like the tool section of Sears
(I've seen them there), Tool Town, etc.  They're a standard item,
apparently, but you have to ask for "hex-drive hex drivers" or something
pretty similar.

--
In their castle beyond night
Gather the Gods in Darkness;
And darkness weaves with many shades.  -- fragment attributed to Opyros

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages             http://www.FoundCollection.com/

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

After 11 June 1998 Washington state law levies a $500 fine for sending
commercial e-mail which conceals its point of origin or has misleading
subject line.  Sender is required to determine recipient's location.

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Bob Kapl » Sun, 03 May 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> Bob, I seldom have trouble keeping screws on my Phillips screwdriver
> bits -- but my screwdriver is strongly magnetized, and only brass,
> aluminum, and some stainless screws don't hold.  B)

Alas corrosion is pretty bad around the bottom of a rocket, so I've always
used stainless screws. When bought from a place like Micro Fasteners, they
are about a nickel a piece or less in q:100 boxes.

Quote:
>> BTW, Anyone know where to get small size allen bits for cordless
>> screwdrivers? This week I actually machined a 3/32 one from s***metal to
>> use for all the bolt on fin rockets (mostly crayon banks) I now have. But
>> I'd really rather not have to do that again ;-)

> I have a full set of allen-head bits for my magnetic screwdriver, which
> would also be usable in a cordless or a drill, as they're the standard
> size hex shank.  You can buy these places like the tool section of Sears
> (I've seen them there), Tool Town, etc.  They're a standard item,
> apparently, but you have to ask for "hex-drive hex drivers" or something
> pretty similar.

Please check your set again. I've got a Sears set with something like 30
bits in it. In the hex sizes, they stop one size above 1/8", IIRC 5/32".
That fits #10 cap screws. I need to fit #4 screws, and wouldn't mind having
#6 and #8 as well (7/64 and 9/64 IIRC). If your set is from Sears, and does
have bits as small as 3/32, please give me the part Jcatalog number so I can
get one myself. It just isn't worth an hour of work to make a bit that I can
buy for a couple bucks.

        Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Abort, Retry, Fail?"

Kaplow Klips:   http://www.FoundCollection.com/
NIRA:           http://www.FoundCollection.com/

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by The Silent Observe » Sun, 03 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:


> > I have a full set of allen-head bits for my magnetic screwdriver, which
> > would also be usable in a cordless or a drill, as they're the standard
> > size hex shank.  You can buy these places like the tool section of Sears
> > (I've seen them there), Tool Town, etc.  They're a standard item,
> > apparently, but you have to ask for "hex-drive hex drivers" or something
> > pretty similar.

> Please check your set again. I've got a Sears set with something like 30
> bits in it. In the hex sizes, they stop one size above 1/8", IIRC 5/32".
> That fits #10 cap screws. I need to fit #4 screws, and wouldn't mind having
> #6 and #8 as well (7/64 and 9/64 IIRC). If your set is from Sears, and does
> have bits as small as 3/32, please give me the part Jcatalog number so I can
> get one myself. It just isn't worth an hour of work to make a bit that I can
> buy for a couple bucks.

My set is not from Sears -- the entire screwdriver kit was purchased
together from Fingerhut, about eight years ago.  The smallest hex driver
is marked 3/32 (next up are 1/8 and 5/32), and it runs up to 1/4" with a
total of six sizes.  The same set also includes six sizes of Torx (r)
drivers, four sizes of Phillips, four straight blades, four square
drive, and two butterfly drivers, plus a quarter inch square drive
socket adapter and a 2-inch extension.  It came in a plastic case for
about $20, IIRC, including a standard screwdriver handle with magnetized
shank and bit storage in the handle.  I've used the extension (also
magnetized, with matching polarity to lock into the handle) in my drill
with these bits on occasion; makes a pretty fine power screwdriver.  B)

It's one of my most used tools...or was, until I got a Leatherman for
Christmas 1996.  B)

--
In their castle beyond night
Gather the Gods in Darkness;
And darkness weaves with many shades.  -- fragment attributed to Opyros

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer           NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages             http://members.aol.com/silntobsvr/launches.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

After 11 June 1998 Washington state law levies a $500 fine for sending
commercial e-mail which conceals its point of origin or has misleading
subject line.  Sender is required to determine recipient's location.

 
 
 

LOC Onyx motor retention

Post by Balthez » Mon, 04 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>Just a quick comment. I deliberately chose cap screws over phillips for this

purpose. In installing the screws, you're often working in an awkward location.
The cap screws will stay on the end of the allen wrench even when sideways.
Phillips screws will not stay on a screwdriver at that almost any angle.<

Also a cap***is less likely to head strip like a cheap phillips. A poor
fitting phillips bit on a pot metal***spells 'drill the sucker out'! Cap
screws are the only way to go when you need to repeatably fasten and unfasten
something.
--
Bruce Kirchner
TRA L1 #5888     NAR #69850
Michigan Team 1 HUVARS
Visit My Rocketry Home Page - http://www.FoundCollection.com/