Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by S.Hughe » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Dear All,
I am conducting a project, currently only on paper, but who knows; it may
come to fruition with a fair wind and the right backing.
I need the 'idiots - guide' to the calculations for constructing a solid
fuel rocket that will take a 400 kilogram payload to 270,000 ft. carrying a
person!
Therefore it will need to accelerate without giving the person 'G' that
will make them loose consciousness.
I don't want much do I?
Seriously though, it's an interesting 'thought-project' and I hope hope
that all respondents will gain pleasure from the challenge: I know I'm
getting and will get a 'buzz' from it!
I'm looking forward to receiving some pretty interesting replies, so happy
thinking.
Best Regards,
Stephen.
--
------------

 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by WeldR » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Is the buzz from the "thought" or what you have been smoking.

 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by Chri » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00


I have also been working on this project and I actually have the concepts to
do it

but the government will never let me have what I need

Nuclear Material

You place a Nuclear ion prpulsion engine (e*** atoms expand and they are
the exhaust)

You install this into an Air plane and fly as High as you can at what would
likely be about 10% power then you bump it to 20% and orbit yourself out of
the atmosphere as you go faster your orbit will become higher etc...

or for a kick in the pants you get as High as you can flying Pitch the nose
up and kick the throttle WHAT a ride

all this is VERY feasable and PRACTICAL FAR more effecient than Checmical
engines etc... BUT the fear of nuclear material and radiation etc.. killed
it it was call I think Project Nova in the 60's ??

Ohe and you wont need any heavy reentry sheilding either

A Ship does NOT burn up reentering the atmosphere and hitting the air it
burns up because it is slamming into that air at 17,000 miles per hour

but with a nuclear engine I could turn tail to the planet and Lower myself
into the atmosphere at ANY speed I wanted for I would have PLENTY of fuel to
do it etc...

Chris
http://www.FoundCollection.com/

PS and Trips to other stars or anything practical beyond mars will require 1
of 3 things

Nuclear engines (only good for local system and maybe some nearby stars at a
stretch

Something Else that we dont have yet

Suspended animation so the people survive the trip

Also another note a way to counter forces of acceleration would help to :-)

Quote:

>Dear All,
>I am conducting a project, currently only on paper, but who knows; it may
>come to fruition with a fair wind and the right backing.
>I need the 'idiots - guide' to the calculations for constructing a solid
>fuel rocket that will take a 400 kilogram payload to 270,000 ft. carrying a
>person!
>Therefore it will need to accelerate without giving the person 'G' that
>will make them loose consciousness.
>I don't want much do I?
>Seriously though, it's an interesting 'thought-project' and I hope hope
>that all respondents will gain pleasure from the challenge: I know I'm
>getting and will get a 'buzz' from it!
>I'm looking forward to receiving some pretty interesting replies, so happy
>thinking.
>Best Regards,
>Stephen.
>--
>------------


 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by Tom » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Let's see... It took a 500 lb rocket to put a Boosted Dart to
50 miles weighing 60 lbs. Motor Mass Fraction was 0.5
Directly scaling that would require about 7500 lbs for 850 lbs
(400 kg). The dart reached 1500 m/s. Burnout weight is about
3750 lbs. The Dart motor generated 14000 lbs thrust each. Using
15 of these motors would yield the right mass but too high
thrust. 37 shorter motors would cluster right yielding a 63
inch envelope. Fire them 3 at a time until G would exceed 3,
then fire 2 at a time, and finally the single core. That would
keep G reasonable.

 - If you staggered the layers of motors you could make it look
like the old 1930's Flash Gordon Spacecar.

 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by Andy En » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00


If this is only a thought-project, I'd try the easy way and see if it
would work:  (1) Download and install WinRasp, (2) Play around adding
F12J's or O motors until you get the response you want, (3) Pitch the
thought problem over the fence to the engineering department and let
them figure out the rest...
Quote:

> Seriously though, it's an interesting 'thought-project' and I hope hope
> that all respondents will gain pleasure from the challenge: I know I'm
> getting and will get a 'buzz' from it!
> I'm looking forward to receiving some pretty interesting replies, so happy
> thinking.
> Best Regards,
> Stephen.

 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by Dave/Kristin Ha » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00


: I am conducting a project, currently only on paper, but who knows; it may
: come to fruition with a fair wind and the right backing.
: I need the 'idiots - guide' to the calculations for constructing a solid
: fuel rocket that will take a 400 kilogram payload to 270,000 ft. carrying a
: person!

There is no one answer.... How many stages do you want?  Air or surface
launch?  Where are you landing (read: re-entry data)?  Where are you going
to launch from (Yes, it can matter)?  Is the plan to go into production or
is this just a one time deal?  And most importantly, what's your budget?

: Therefore it will need to accelerate without giving the person 'G' that
: will make them loose consciousness.
: I don't want much do I?

Not at all.  All it takes is money.

The short answer (IMHO)?  Skip the solid rocket, go buy a Scud B/C and put
a new payload on it.  Should do the trick at a bargin price.  All you need
to do is develop the payload.

--
David Hall
Propulsion Performance Office (Code 4732H0D)
Naval Air Warfare Center - Weapons Division
China Lake, CA 93555

 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by Tom Binfor » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> If this is only a thought-project, I'd try the easy way and see if it
> would work:  (1) Download and install WinRasp, (2) Play around adding
> F12J's or O motors until you get the response you want, (3) Pitch the
> thought problem over the fence to the engineering department and let
> them figure out the rest...

Get one surplus Minuteman missile. Replace the warhead with your
capsule. Launch.
Tom
 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by Ryburn Ros » Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Did I see that right? I thought I saw full scale Mercury Redstone! Is
this a design on paper or is it built. If it is built and will be
launched tell me where so that I can see it!

Ryburn Ross

 
 
 

Large Rockets: Solid Propellant, Calculations?

Post by Jerry Irvi » Fri, 02 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Quote:

>     Check out http://www.thiokol.com and follow links to the Castor 120 rocket
> motor.  Two of these staged should do it, but nothing in high power rocketry
> would even be close.  Even a cluster of 12 U.S. Rockets 306mm "S" class motors
> will only take my full scale Mercury Redstone to 73,000 feet.

Clustering is very inefficient.  If you want to go higher use high aspect
ratio motors staged such as S to S or whatever.  Use the maximum number of
G's permissible.

Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California USA