Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Chris Jacobs (N9V » Mon, 29 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Yesterday I had the the local Astronomical society out to my farm to have a
viewing session. One of the members son brought out some model rockets.
Estes  BullPup, Hi-Jax and some sort of boost glider.  At anyrate I decided I
wanted to fly my Onyx also but I had only a G33-7 RMS and from previous
experiance know that the 7 second delay is more like 8 or 9 and that the
rocket is nose down and at high speed when the ejection charge goes.  OK well
I used my 24mm adapter (home made) and tape fit in a D12-3.  Heads up I told
everyone as this is severly under-powered.  Off my home made launch pad the
Onyx slowly rose and climbed to a respectable 175 feet or so and at apogee
deployed the (undersized LOC) chute and landed safely in the Hayfield.
Very spectacular slow flight (cheap too)  well I just wanted to share this
flight with you all and suggest it for windless days as it was very cool.

Chris BAR

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by ElvynMa » Mon, 29 Jul 1996 04:00:00


I have tried the LOC Onyx with D12-3......Same result....However, I would
caution that this flight is VERY risky....the ejection charge sometimes
triggers only 50ft from the ground.  On the same subject (Onyx)...I tried
it twice with an E15-4...both times it veered at 30 degrees off the launch
pad (1/4" x 6ft)....Is this due to marginal instability of the design?
Low thrust profile of E15-4?  Has anyone had similar experiences with this
rocket?

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Jerry Irvi » Mon, 29 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

> Yesterday I had the the local Astronomical society out to my farm to have a
> viewing session. One of the members son brought out some model rockets.
> Estes  BullPup, Hi-Jax and some sort of boost glider.  At anyrate I decided I
> wanted to fly my Onyx also but I had only a G33-7 RMS and from previous
> experiance know that the 7 second delay is more like 8 or 9 and that the
> rocket is nose down and at high speed when the ejection charge goes.  OK well
> I used my 24mm adapter (home made) and tape fit in a D12-3.  Heads up I told
> everyone as this is severly under-powered.

You can "fix" your AT delay charge by drilling out the delay in the center
of one end with a 1/8-3/16" bit BY HAND.  Drill 1/32" of depth for every
one second of delay you want to remove.  Put the drilled end toward the
igniter.

This way you can use what you have right nowand fly your rocket successfully.

Jerry

Rocket Scientist

--

Box 1242, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing.

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Doug Gilmo » Wed, 31 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>The 10 second delay, however, is the same length as the 7 second delay.
>I am guessing that the material is different, so the 1/32" per second
does
>not apply.  Is this correct?

Looking closely at the 10 vs. 7 second delays, you'll notice that the
stripes are a different color.  I imagine that this must be how AT
differentiates the different materials used.  Since the 10 sec. must burn
slower, cutting the same 1/32" away would theoretically reduce delay time
by 10/7 second (1.43 seconds)

DOUG GILMORE              
TRA #4666

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Jerry Irvi » Wed, 31 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Quote:



> >You can "fix" your AT delay charge by drilling out the delay in the center
> >of one end with a 1/8-3/16" bit BY HAND.  Drill 1/32" of depth for every
> >one second of delay you want to remove.  Put the drilled end toward the
> >igniter.

> >This way you can use what you have right nowand fly your rocket successfully.

> >Jerry

> >Rocket Scientist

> This does make sense for some delays.  The 24mm E18/F24 4 second delay is
> 2.5mm (3/32") shorter that the 7 second delay.  The 10 second delay, however,
> is the same length as the 7 second delay.  I am guessing that the material is
> different, so the 1/32" per second does not apply.  Is this correct?

Perfect question!!!!!

Aerotech uses the SAME delay material in all motors, reloads, etc.
Therefore if you have a delay that does not make sense (using the same
propellant style) then it is probably mis-packaged and this thread just
saved another rocket for you!!!

A blackjack short delay is much longer than a blue thunder short delay.  I
have proposed before using usenet for something useful (gag) and posting a
list of proper delay lengths for each style of reload so newbies can
downlad and check to see of the Aerotech elves (slave labor children from
communist countries if you believe their worst enemies) got it right.
They occasionally make mistakes.

Jerry


29mm  Bates  WL  RL  short  x/32"
29mm  C-slot WL  RL  long   x/32"
29mm  Bates  BT  RL  med    x/32"

--

Box 1242, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing.

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Martin Rogo » Wed, 31 Jul 1996 04:00:00




Quote:

>You can "fix" your AT delay charge by drilling out the delay in the center
>of one end with a 1/8-3/16" bit BY HAND.  Drill 1/32" of depth for every
>one second of delay you want to remove.  Put the drilled end toward the
>igniter.

>This way you can use what you have right nowand fly your rocket successfully.

>Jerry

>Rocket Scientist

This does make sense for some delays.  The 24mm E18/F24 4 second delay is
2.5mm (3/32") shorter that the 7 second delay.  The 10 second delay, however,
is the same length as the 7 second delay.  I am guessing that the material is
different, so the 1/32" per second does not apply.  Is this correct?

Martin Rogoff
N5GPS
NAR # 65545


 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by STyr » Thu, 01 Aug 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

>Aerotech uses the SAME delay material in all motors, reloads, etc.
>Therefore if you have a delay that does not make sense (using the same
>propellant style) then it is probably mis-packaged and this thread just
>saved another rocket for you!!!

Not.  Stripes are on the slow burning delays

S

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Ed » Sat, 03 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:





> > >You can "fix" your AT delay charge by drilling out the delay in the center
> > >of one end with a 1/8-3/16" bit BY HAND.  Drill 1/32" of depth for every
> > >one second of delay you want to remove.  Put the drilled end toward the
> > >igniter.

> > >This way you can use what you have right nowand fly your rocket successfully.

> > >Jerry

> > >Rocket Scientist

> > This does make sense for some delays.  The 24mm E18/F24 4 second delay is
> > 2.5mm (3/32") shorter that the 7 second delay.  The 10 second delay, however,
> > is the same length as the 7 second delay.  I am guessing that the material is
> > different, so the 1/32" per second does not apply.  Is this correct?

> Perfect question!!!!!

> Aerotech uses the SAME delay material in all motors, reloads, etc.
> Therefore if you have a delay that does not make sense (using the same
> propellant style) then it is probably mis-packaged and this thread just
> saved another rocket for you!!!

> A blackjack short delay is much longer than a blue thunder short delay.  I
> have proposed before using usenet for something useful (gag) and posting a
> list of proper delay lengths for each style of reload so newbies can
> downlad and check to see of the Aerotech elves (slave labor children from
> communist countries if you believe their worst enemies) got it right.
> They occasionally make mistakes.

> Jerry


> 29mm  Bates  WL  RL  short  x/32"
> 29mm  C-slot WL  RL  long   x/32"
> 29mm  Bates  BT  RL  med    x/32"

> --

> Box 1242, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
> Opinion, the whole thing.

Thanks for the info , Jerry.  Does this also apply for the 38MM?

                                 TNX in advance.
                                   Ed

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Jerry Irvi » Tue, 06 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> > > >of one end with a 1/8-3/16" bit BY HAND.  Drill 1/32" of depth for every
> > > >one second of delay you want to remove.  Put the drilled end toward the
> > > >igniter.
> Thanks for the info , Jerry.  Does this also apply for the 38MM?

All sizes AT and USR brand delays.  I have been corrected that AT does
indeed offer a second delay which burns slower.  Please refer to this
thread for posts as to which color stripe refers to slow and which to
fast.  The ambient burning rate can be determined by sacrificing one or
two delays, which I understand are available separately.

Jerry

--

Box 1242, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing.

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by mpra.. » Tue, 06 Aug 1996 04:00:00


along this same line...

Forgetting about consistentcy between motors, and if the manufacturers can
deliver the delays they promise....

If I have a RMS 24mm F24-7, is the 7 seconds total delay burn time, or is it
7 seconds between propellant burnout and black powder ejection charge burn?
In other words would the *total* burn time of the delay column be on the
order of 9 seconds?

Thanks

--
Mike Prasek


[please ignore the lack of capitals, i hate to shift  -- hey!!!! that works
for my automatic transmission too!]

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Ed » Wed, 07 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> > > > >of one end with a 1/8-3/16" bit BY HAND.  Drill 1/32" of depth for every
> > > > >one second of delay you want to remove.  Put the drilled end toward the
> > > > >igniter.
> > Thanks for the info , Jerry.  Does this also apply for the 38MM?

> All sizes AT and USR brand delays.  I have been corrected that AT does
> indeed offer a second delay which burns slower.  Please refer to this
> thread for posts as to which color stripe refers to slow and which to
> fast.  The ambient burning rate can be determined by sacrificing one or
> two delays, which I understand are available separately.

> Jerry

> --

> Box 1242, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
> Opinion, the whole thing.

Hi, Jerry

This is some interesting info because I just purchesed some of these
extra delay units.  They are unmarked and I have been scratching my head
wondering how to determine what they are.  It's also interesting because
I read the orginal post, but did not send it.  It may be that someone
else is using my name.  (No one would be that low, would they? ;-) Or, it
may have been an incorrect identification.  What ever.  But, the info is
still valuable.  Thanks.

                  Ed

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Brian D » Thu, 08 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>If I have a RMS 24mm F24-7, is the 7 seconds total delay burn time, or is it
>7 seconds between propellant burnout and black powder ejection charge burn?
>In other words would the *total* burn time of the delay column be on the
>order of 9 seconds?

It's SUPPOSED to be 7 seconds from motor burnout (+/- 1 second).

--


Huntspatch, AL

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Jerry Irvi » Thu, 08 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> > The ambient burning rate can be determined by sacrificing one or
> > two delays, which I understand are available separately.
> This is some interesting info because I just purchesed some of these
> extra delay units.  They are unmarked and I have been scratching my head
> wondering how to determine what they are.

I believe unmarked ones are regular 1/32" per second ambient.

Test the striped ones by timing from actual ignition to actual burn
through the other end and divide that time by the length to get a rate.

Jerry

The attributions got messed up somehow.

--

Box 1242, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing.

 
 
 

Launch Report LOC Onyx w/D12-3

Post by Jack Wike » Thu, 08 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>Date:       Thu, 08 Aug 1996 03:01:56 GMT

>Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
>Subject:    Re: Aerotech delay burn rates (was Re: Launch Report LOC Onyx
> w/D12-3)


>>> > > > >of one end with a 1/8-3/16" bit BY HAND.  Drill 1/32" of depth
> for every
>>> > > > >one second of delay you want to remove.  Put the drilled end
> toward the
>>> > > > >igniter.

>It's my understanding that the typical delay element burns at 1/32"
>per second when *not* under pressure, and somewhat faster when under
>pressure.  So shouldn't the drilled end be AWAY from the igniter?
>When placed toward the igniter, you're not really getting one second
>for each 1/32" removed.

>Jack

Makes no difference which end you drill.  The unburned thickness is the same
either way!

Jack Wiker  TRA#(real high)