Question about real trains

Question about real trains

Post by Mark Fie » Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:00:00



Pardon me if I am in the wrong group but I searched for railroads and this was all I found.
Any way my five year old asked a question about trains and I had no clue as to the answer.
On a train with multiple engines is there a "driver" in each engine?
Any assistance greatly appreciated.

-Mark

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Richard Wra » Fri, 15 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>Pardon me if I am in the wrong group but I searched for railroads and this was all I found.
>Any way my five year old asked a question about trains and I had no clue as to the answer.
>On a train with multiple engines is there a "driver" in each engine?
>Any assistance greatly appreciated.

>-Mark

Just the lead engine has a `driver' commonally known as engineer. There
are control cables to the other engines. This applies only to diesels and
electrics of course. When there are 2 steam engines an engineer is needed
in both. Welcome to the group.

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Andy Harm » Fri, 15 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>On a train with multiple engines is there a "driver" in each engine?

No - a multi-unit consist is connected together by electrical cables
and one engineer controls all the units from his control stand.  Most
locomotives in service today (even those from different manufacturers)
are compatible with each other for this type of operation, although
not all locomotives respond exactly the same way when you notch up the
throttle.

In the case of mid-train helpers, these can be manned with a crew or
radio controlled, depending on the railroad.  Norfolk Southern uses
radio controlled units in the coal fields and on other heavy trains
when necessary.  Tail-end helpers are usually manned by a local crew
and used as helpers up a specific hill, then disconnect from the train
and return to push the next train up.

Now if you are talking steam engines... in all cases every steam
engine would have had a two-man crew, as there were no electrical
controls or radio controls for steam engines!

Andy

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Eduardo F. Fish » Fri, 15 Mar 1996 04:00:00


**I've been eating my words for the last day, but I'll open my mouth
again in hopes that I am right.

**In an M.U. (multiple unit) consist, only the lead engine will need
"drivers".  If you look between the engines, you'll see a set of heavy
cables that connects each one (usually just above the couplers), these
are the control cables that interconnect the operations of each unit.

**Of course, I could be wrong in some cases.  Recently, DPU
(distributed power unit) has been introduced for remote control of
helper engines, similar, I guess to Locotrol that's been around for
quite a few years.  Basically it is remote operation of units helping
out in the middle or back end.

**But to get back to your question, no, you shouldn't need more than a
few people in control of the whole set of engines...and they will more
than likely sit in the lead engine...

Quote:
>Pardon me if I am in the wrong group but I searched for railroads and this was all I found.
>Any way my five year old asked a question about trains and I had no clue as to the answer.
>On a train with multiple engines is there a "driver" in each engine?
>Any assistance greatly appreciated.
>-Mark

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by John Oxlad » Fri, 15 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> >On a train with multiple engines is there a "driver" in each engine?

> No - a multi-unit consist is connected together by electrical cables
> and one engineer controls all the units from his control stand.  Most
> locomotives in service today (even those from different manufacturers)
> are compatible with each other for this type of operation, although
> not all locomotives respond exactly the same way when you notch up the
> throttle.

> In the case of mid-train helpers, these can be manned with a crew or
> radio controlled, depending on the railroad.  Norfolk Southern uses
> radio controlled units in the coal fields and on other heavy trains
> when necessary.  Tail-end helpers are usually manned by a local crew
> and used as helpers up a specific hill, then disconnect from the train
> and return to push the next train up.

> Now if you are talking steam engines... in all cases every steam
> engine would have had a two-man crew, as there were no electrical
> controls or radio controls for steam engines!

> Andy

Aah, that's not 100% true.  The Deutsche Bundesbahn (German Federal
railways) had some steam locomotives fitted for push-pull operation.
On these (if my information is 100% accurate), the driver was in the
front of the train, and had a control that could shut the regulator
and then use the brakes to stop.  The fireman was in the loco doing
his job, and also opening the regulator to start the train away.

The classes 38 and 78 were so fitted, and the Lubeck Buechener Eisnebahn
had some push-pull fitted 2-4-2 tank locos.

--

http://www.cssatt.co.uk/users/jao/Germany/GermRail.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Jim Tee » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


There was one US steam locomotive that could MU with diesels!  Some time
back (maybe 20 - 25 years?)  the Clinchfield resuscitated their old #1 -
a 1890s era Rogers 4-6-0.  It was a rather weak little engine (although a
beauty) and the railroad used it to pull excursion trains of several
steel passenger cars.  What they did was take two EMD B-units (as I
remember, one F7 and one F3) and put an MU control box in the cab of the
steam engine, just above the engineer's window.  The steam engine made a
lot of pretty smoke and the two diesels pulled the train.  The two
diesels were painted to look like baggage cars and it really fooled a lot
of people!

Jim Teese   MMR

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by J. Eroe Jr » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> Aah, that's not 100% true.  The Deutsche Bundesbahn (German Federal
> railways) had some steam locomotives fitted for push-pull operation.
> On these (if my information is 100% accurate), the driver was in the
> front of the train, and had a control that could shut the regulator
> and then use the brakes to stop.  The fireman was in the loco doing
> his job, and also opening the regulator to start the train away.

The Hungarian MAV operated push-pull trains similarly in the '60s.
The throttle was remotely controlled from the front-cab using
pressurized air. Of course the train needed a through-going piping for
the control. There was also a telephone line between the driver and
the fireman. The locos, Class 424 (Twelwe-wheeler) and 324 (Prairie)
rolled of course backwards, and needed a windshield on the tender side.

Janos Ero

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Garth Jon » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> >lot of pretty smoke and the two diesels pulled the train.  The two
> >diesels were painted to look like baggage cars and it really fooled a lot
> >of people!

I saw an F unit right behind a steam engine on the Grand Canyon Railway a
couple of years ago.  The engine was a 2-8-2 (I think) but they were
pulling a long train of heavyweight cars.  It certainly looked odd.
Garth Jones
 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Szu-yuan Hua » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>Just the lead engine has a `driver' commonally known as engineer. There
>are control cables to the other engines. This applies only to diesels and
>electrics of course. When there are 2 steam engines an engineer is needed
>in both. Welcome to the group.

True, but there seems to be always other people around who are conveniently
shoved to the trail units.  I will be doing a little ride or two myself with
UP next month on the AC4400/6000 Convertibles.

--
Mike Huang
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineer, AC6000CW Locomotive Control System             (814)875-3207

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
             *** GETS and I do not speak on each other's behalf ***
===============================================================================

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Len Kapl » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>The steam engine made a
>lot of pretty smoke and the two diesels pulled the train.  The two
>diesels were painted to look like baggage cars and it really fooled a lot
>of people!

I've heard "steam dummies" referred to several timess (I think they were
used on the early New York City elevated railroad), but never "diesel
dummies"!

(And I wonder how many Clinchfield passengers thought that the baggage cars
had caught fire :-)

-Len

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by William Megi » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Hi !

I've seen the steam-diesel mix in photographs of CP scheduled trains
running during the transition years (1950's-1960's). Anybody know how
that was done ? I think probably two crews, since the electrical
control boxes weren't standard (or were they?).

Cheers!
William

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Andy Harm » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>lot of pretty smoke and the two diesels pulled the train.  The two
>diesels were painted to look like baggage cars and it really fooled a lot
>of people!

Hmm, you'd think the growling 567's would have given them away!  I
rode a steam excursion in 1979 behind a CPR 4-6-4 with an FP7 helper
and climbing Erlanger hill out of Cincinnati, the diesel all but
drowned out the sounds of the Hudson.   Once the train got on flatter
ground and up to speed, they shut down the FP7 to give the guys in the
recording car a chance at some clean tapes.

Andy

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by FREDERICK W DABN » Sat, 16 Mar 1996 04:00:00


etc...
: > Now if you are talking steam engines... in all cases every steam
: > engine would have had a two-man crew, as there were no electrical
: > controls or radio controls for steam engines!
: >
: > Andy

: Aah, that's not 100% true.  The Deutsche Bundesbahn (German Federal
: railways) had some steam locomotives fitted for push-pull operation.
: On these (if my information is 100% accurate), the driver was in the
: front of the train, and had a control that could shut the regulator
: and then use the brakes to stop.  The fireman was in the loco doing
: his job, and also opening the regulator to start the train away.

Which brings to mind a question about some of the US steam operated
commuter lines in years past.  Were any of these push-pull or did the
engine run around to the other end of the train at the end of the run?  
B&A and a lot of other roads had tank engines in the service intended to
run equally well in either direction.  If they ran push-pull, did they
just trust to luck that some idiot hadn't high-centered a horse on a
crossing or did they have someone in the front using the conductor's
signal lines to direct the engineer?

Fred D.

 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Gerald C. You » Sun, 17 Mar 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

>Pardon me if I am in the wrong group but I searched for railroads and this was all I found.
>Any way my five year old asked a question about trains and I had no clue as to the answer.
>On a train with multiple engines is there a "driver" in each engine?
>Any assistance greatly appreciated.

In a "lash-up" with multiple locomotives only the lead engine requires
a crew.  Controls for each of the following locomotives respond to the
lead unit through "MU" (which stands for multiple unit) hook-ups.  Locos
further back in the train may also be controlled from the lead unit
through radio commands.  I hope your five year old retains his interest
in trains.  They are fascinating.
 
 
 

Question about real trains

Post by Roger Rassch » Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi !

> I've seen the steam-diesel mix in photographs of CP scheduled trains
> running during the transition years (1950's-1960's). Anybody know how
> that was done ? I think probably two crews, since the electrical
> control boxes weren't standard (or were they?).

> Cheers!
> William


Many trains in the "transition" era used diesel helpers on steam trains
or vice-versa, depending on engine assignments.  These would have two
crews regardless of motive power.

Roger