handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by Robert Bowdid » Wed, 07 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Hi, all, I'm planning on handlaying turnouts on an extension to my
current layout.  This is a big adventure, because I've never been able
to handlay turnouts reliably.  

I'd like to build hinged point turnouts.  On these, the points are
screwed or riveted to the throwbar and hinged at the opposite end with
a loose rail joiner.  (This is very similar to how Atlas makes its
turnouts.)  With such an approach, the points are mechanically more
reliable, and need no special wiring or switches to direct power to
the points.

(The other common method is to solder the points to a piece of brass
or PC board material.  The drawbacks of this approach is that the
solder joints can fail and that it's more difficult to make sure the
bending portion of the points keeps in gauge.  Also, soldering the points
to a solid piece of metal means you *must* have some sort of electrical switch
to provide power for the points and frog.)

The various articles in model railroad magazines suggest many ways
for attaching the points to the throwbar:

1) anneal a common pin, cut it short, insert it through the throwbar and
points, then peen the end so it becomes a rivet.

2) Use 00-90 screws to attach the points to the throwbar.

3) Use small rivets.

I haven't been able to get the pin method to work, probably because
steel pins are much harder now than when the article was written
(1950's).  I'm planning to try to attach screws to a piece of .040 styrene
plastic or PC board material.

Can anyone suggest any other throwbar materials or or methods for attaching
the points so I can make some hinged point turnouts?

Thanks!

Robert

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by C.L.Zen » Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi, all, I'm planning on handlaying turnouts on an extension to my
> current layout.  This is a big adventure, because I've never been able
> to handlay turnouts reliably.

> I'd like to build hinged point turnouts.  On these, the points are
> screwed or riveted to the throwbar and hinged at the opposite end with
> a loose rail joiner.  (This is very similar to how Atlas makes its
> turnouts.)  With such an approach, the points are mechanically more
> reliable, and need no special wiring or switches to direct power to
> the points.

Hmmm.  Never built them that way so I can't say.

Quote:
> (The other common method is to solder the points to a piece of brass
> or PC board material.  The drawbacks of this approach is that the
> solder joints can fail and that it's more difficult to make sure the
> bending portion of the points keeps in gauge.  Also, soldering the points
> to a solid piece of metal means you *must* have some sort of electrical switch
> to provide power for the points and frog.)

Not truly necessary to have the electrical switch.  If the throwbar is
PC board and the point rails are not connected at any point, simply cut
the cladding.  I build full-power (like Atlas, not power routing)
turnouts this way.  I typically build in code 55 or 40, and solder the
rail to the PC tie.  The smaller rail does not stress the solder joint
as much as bigger stuff so the solder joints last quite well.  I also
obviously do not use solder frogs, rather, I lay out the rail, build
small "dams" at the ends of the frogs with bits of wood, and fill with
five minute epoxy.  I let the stuff cure to firm (about 15 minutes) then
shave the top level with a No. 17 xacto knife.  I let it cure another 15
minutes then cut the flangeways with a piece of a hacksaw blade, which
just happens to make the flangeway match the NMRA gauge almost
perfectly.

Quote:
> The various articles in model railroad magazines suggest many ways
> for attaching the points to the throwbar:

> 1) anneal a common pin, cut it short, insert it through the throwbar and
> points, then peen the end so it becomes a rivet.

I have pinned the rails to the throwbar by soldering small bits of .010
brass to the bottom of the point rails, drilling a hole through the
brass and into the throwbar and pressing in a piece of soft brass wire
that's a bit oversize (like half a thou over).  Peen over the top and
voila.

Quote:
> 2) Use 00-90 screws to attach the points to the throwbar.

Would work with above method instead of pins.

Quote:
> 3) Use small rivets.

Ditto.

Quote:
> I haven't been able to get the pin method to work, probably because
> steel pins are much harder now than when the article was written
> (1950's).  I'm planning to try to attach screws to a piece of .040 styrene
> plastic or PC board material.

> Can anyone suggest any other throwbar materials or or methods for attaching
> the points so I can make some hinged point turnouts?

--
   Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
        http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html

                Remember, pillage THEN burn.

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by UffF » Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>2) Use 00-90 screws to attach the points to the throwbar.

We now use 1mm screws on our On3 and Proto 48 track work Use PC throw bars from
Clover House or cut your own from locally obtained PC board. Get screws from
NWSL or High Sierra Models in Reno. Visual difference is amazing.
 Bill Uffelman
 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by JimVi » Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
(Robert Bowdidge) writes:
>1) anneal a common pin, cut it short, insert it through the throwbar
>and

points, then peen the end so it becomes a rivet.

Similar to what I have used except I use a piece of PC board for a
throw bar turned upside down.  Gap the center and solder the pin
to it.  This system was descibed some years ago in an MR article.
Works for me.

               Good Old Jim

Geeez I'm tired of looking at that dog's ..........

(If you don't understand this message then you must be the lead dog!)

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by Jerrygl » Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:00:00


We've handbuilt close to 100 turnouts on our layout. I build the frogs and my
friend Lee (his layout) lays them and the rail. He puts a slight tention on the
closure rails toward the center. The throwbar is stryene with little wedge like
"chairs" on it to push the points toward the stock rail as the switch machine
(Tortoise for us) is thrown. The switch machine contacts are used for polarity
to the frog. I added jumpers from the point rails to the corresponding stock
rails after contact problems. This method allows a very narrow gap between the
open points and corresponding stock rail - a big realism destroyer in
conventional turnouts.

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by James Adrian van Wyk, PE, P » Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi, all, I'm planning on handlaying turnouts on an extension to my
> current layout.  This is a big adventure, because I've never been able
> to handlay turnouts reliably.

> I'd like to build hinged point turnouts.  On these, the points are
> screwed or riveted to the throwbar and hinged at the opposite end with
> a loose rail joiner.  (This is very similar to how Atlas makes its
> turnouts.)  With such an approach, the points are mechanically more
> reliable, and need no special wiring or switches to direct power to
> the points.

> (The other common method is to solder the points to a piece of brass
> or PC board material.  The drawbacks of this approach is that the
> solder joints can fail and that it's more difficult to make sure the
> bending portion of the points keeps in gauge.  Also, soldering the points
> to a solid piece of metal means you *must* have some sort of electrical switch
> to provide power for the points and frog.)

> The various articles in model railroad magazines suggest many ways
> for attaching the points to the throwbar:

> 1) anneal a common pin, cut it short, insert it through the throwbar and
> points, then peen the end so it becomes a rivet.

> 2) Use 00-90 screws to attach the points to the throwbar.

> 3) Use small rivets.

> I haven't been able to get the pin method to work, probably because
> steel pins are much harder now than when the article was written
> (1950's).  I'm planning to try to attach screws to a piece of .040 styrene
> plastic or PC board material.

> Can anyone suggest any other throwbar materials or or methods for attaching
> the points so I can make some hinged point turnouts?

> Thanks!

> Robert


I'm a former oldtimer (1952-1967) model railroader, that hopes to get
back into the hobby.  My last layout, was code 70 nickel silver rails
(new stuff then) spiked to individually laid wooden ties (mostly 4
spikes per tie in most places).  All of the turnouts were custom fit
hand made.  Some were curved.  I soldered the frogs.  I soldered the
guard rails.  I soldered a bar across between the points, with an
operating rod flexibly attached to it.  The switch points were their own
contacts (no seperate electrical contacts).  I used manual switch
machines.  They worked (not always the first time).  The layout is long
gone.  I still have the engines and most of the cars, packed away for 31
years.  I thought you might be interested in how we did it in the old
days.

javw

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by Lungsho » Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>I'm a former oldtimer (1952-1967) model railroader, that hopes to get
>back into the hobby.

When I first started in HO model railroading in 1978, I wanted to make my own
wooden cars, hand lay track and have a real hands on adventure. Not having alot
of money, but time and creativity, I even hand made my own switch machine
solenoids that powered a modified slide switch for powering the frog.

I am not as active (nuts, I think) as then but I still look with amazement at
some of the things that I did. Did anyone else ever make their own switch
machine solenoids?

ED

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by Jerrygl » Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>Did anyone else ever make their own switch machine solenoids?

I haven't gone that far, but I have made my own electromagnetic uncoulpling
ramps fro, an old MR article.
 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by John DeCam » Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> I'm a former oldtimer (1952-1967) model railroader, that hopes to get
> back into the hobby.  My last layout, was code 70 nickel silver rails
> (new stuff then) spiked to individually laid wooden ties (mostly 4
> spikes per tie in most places).  All of the turnouts were custom fit
> hand made.  Some were curved.  I soldered the frogs.  I soldered the
> guard rails.  I soldered a bar across between the points, with an
> operating rod flexibly attached to it.  The switch points were their own
> contacts (no seperate electrical contacts).  I used manual switch
> machines.  They worked (not always the first time).  

Heck, I still do it that way.  Mine work fine.

John De Camp

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by Charles A. Davi » Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>  Lee installs them.  He puts a slight tention on the
> closure rails toward the center. The throwbar is stryene with little wedge like
> "chairs" on it to push the points toward the stock rail as the switch machine
> (Tortoise for us) is thrown.

snip

I like it. Solves some of the problem of 'non scale parts showing'.

Chuck
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
He, who will not reason, is a bigot;       William Drumond,
he, who cannot, is a fool;                  Scottish writer
and he, who dares not, is a slave.              (1585-1649)
While he that does, is a free man!          Joseph P. 1955-
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Chuck Davis  /  Sutherlin Industries   FAX # (804) 799-0940

Sutherlin, ***ia 24594            Voice # (804) 799-5803

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by Timothy Houliha » Mon, 12 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> >I'm a former oldtimer (1952-1967) model railroader, that hopes to get
> >back into the hobby.

> When I first started in HO model railroading in 1978, I wanted to make my own
> wooden cars, hand lay track and have a real hands on adventure. Not having alot
> of money, but time and creativity, I even hand made my own switch machine
> solenoids that powered a modified slide switch for powering the frog.

> I am not as active (nuts, I think) as then but I still look with amazement at
> some of the things that I did. Did anyone else ever make their own switch
> machine solenoids?

> ED

Way back when I was a younger man,  my uncle took me to see a layout in
Buffalo, NY.  These guys hand made their own switch machines.  I though
this was the greatest and with my little diagram was going to start my
HO empire. Then I was invited on a 13 month all expense payed vacation
by our government.  I am finally geting back into the hobby and would be
interested in a diagram of your switch machines.  I probably will buy
them but, hey you never know.

TIA

Tim

 
 
 

handlaying turnouts: best methods for attaching points to throwbar?

Post by Tom Ban » Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Yes we used to make our own solenoids.  Switch machines used to come in
kit form.  Matter of fact, I think I still have some kits from those
good-ol-(choke)-days.

Tom Bank
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