Sanitizing solution with campden

Sanitizing solution with campden

Post by Dave All » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:01:46



I have read several places that itis acceptable to reuse your
sanitizing solution for bottles, equipment, etc...   I have a food
grade 5 gallon bucket with tight fitting, ***-grommet lid I wish to
use to make about 3-4 gallons of sanitizer to use.   How many campden
tablets should go in to this per gallon?   I am assuming it will take
more than one, is 5 enough?   Is more better? or is there a point
where it is either too stong, or where adding more does nothing to
improve it's effects?

thanks in advance...

email:  daveallyn at bwsys dot net
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

 
 
 

Sanitizing solution with campden

Post by Negod » Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:07:25


Quote:

> I have read several places that itis acceptable to reuse your
> sanitizing solution for bottles, equipment, etc...

Yes, you can re-use your sanitizing solution IF you only use it on
clean equipment. So, you can rinse a clean bottle out, and put the
sanitizer back in its container. But, if you rinse out something that
is soiled or contaminated, it is not recommended to recycle that bit
of sanitizer.

Quote:
> I have a food
> grade 5 gallon bucket with tight fitting, ***-grommet lid I wish to
> use to make about 3-4 gallons of sanitizer to use.

That's a lot of sanitizer to make at one time. You don't really want
that much headroom in the container, or the fumes will not be pleasant
when you open it. And it will lose strength EVERY time you open the
container. So, unless you are going to use that much in a very short
time, you should make less.

I make about 100 gallons of wine each year, and I sanitize everything:
work table surfaces, primaries, carboys, bottles, destemmer and
crusher. I keep a ONE-gallon container of sanitizing solution, and top
it up when it gets 1 or 2 cups low. That amount should be more than
sufficient for home use.

Quote:
> How many campden tablets should go in to this per gallon? I am assuming it
> will take more than one, is 5 enough?   Is more better? or is there a point
> where it is either too stong, or where adding more does nothing to
> improve it's effects?

There are different opinions as to how strong the santizing solution
should be. You would need somewhere between 50 and 150 tablets,
depending which one you adopted.

More is NOT necessarily better. At some stage the solution will be so
strong as to be dangerous, it will be ineffective for the purpose, and
it will leave large salt deposits on the surfaces to which it has been
applied.

Campden tablets are a convenient means of sulphiting the must with
small batches of wine. One tablet per gallon provides 50 ppm SO2. But
the tablets must be crushed thoroughly to disolve properly. And they
are considerably more expensive than the alternatives.

If you are doing any serious amount of winemaking, you should obtain
potassium or sodium metabisulphite powder or crystals, and make a 10%
solution (25 grams per 250 ml cup of water). Make up about a pint, and
put it in a tightly sealed DARK container (light will cause it to
deteriorate). Then you can use 1 tsp. of solution in place of one
campden tablet.

For a sterilizer, use 1/2 tsp. metabisulphite + 1/2 tsp. citric acid
per 250 ml. "cup" of water. Another common formula is 2 oz. sodium
metabisulphite per gallon of water. The exact amount isn't important
in a sanitizer. As stated above, a gallon kept topped up, should be
more than enough.

Sodium metabisulphite is about half the price of potassium
metabisulpite, and perfectly adequate as a sanitizer. But it is
probably better to use potassium metabisulphite IN the wine.
Commercial wineries are not allowed to use the Sodium metabisulphite,
and it can leave a bitter taste in your wine even if sodium isn't the
evil susbtance current medical "science" claims).

It is MUCH cheaper to use metabisulfite powder or crystals than
Campden tablets. Grape&Granary sells Potassium Metabisulfite for $3.99
per pound, and Sodium Metabisulfite for $2.19.

And the thought of crushing 150 tablets ....

 
 
 

Sanitizing solution with campden

Post by Dave All » Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:34:09


Okay..  looks like I need to order some meta before long..   I'm just
getting into this (finally got everything together for my first
batch).  Ordered campden, not meta... But, I did get the potasium
campden, not the sodium...  

Is there anywhere else to find potasium metasulfite other then in a
wine/beer shop??


Quote:

>> I have read several places that itis acceptable to reuse your
>> sanitizing solution for bottles, equipment, etc...

>Yes, you can re-use your sanitizing solution IF you only use it on
>clean equipment. So, you can rinse a clean bottle out, and put the
>sanitizer back in its container. But, if you rinse out something that
>is soiled or contaminated, it is not recommended to recycle that bit
>of sanitizer.

>> I have a food
>> grade 5 gallon bucket with tight fitting, ***-grommet lid I wish to
>> use to make about 3-4 gallons of sanitizer to use.

>That's a lot of sanitizer to make at one time. You don't really want
>that much headroom in the container, or the fumes will not be pleasant
>when you open it. And it will lose strength EVERY time you open the
>container. So, unless you are going to use that much in a very short
>time, you should make less.

>I make about 100 gallons of wine each year, and I sanitize everything:
>work table surfaces, primaries, carboys, bottles, destemmer and
>crusher. I keep a ONE-gallon container of sanitizing solution, and top
>it up when it gets 1 or 2 cups low. That amount should be more than
>sufficient for home use.

>> How many campden tablets should go in to this per gallon? I am assuming it
>> will take more than one, is 5 enough?   Is more better? or is there a point
>> where it is either too stong, or where adding more does nothing to
>> improve it's effects?

>There are different opinions as to how strong the santizing solution
>should be. You would need somewhere between 50 and 150 tablets,
>depending which one you adopted.

>More is NOT necessarily better. At some stage the solution will be so
>strong as to be dangerous, it will be ineffective for the purpose, and
>it will leave large salt deposits on the surfaces to which it has been
>applied.

>Campden tablets are a convenient means of sulphiting the must with
>small batches of wine. One tablet per gallon provides 50 ppm SO2. But
>the tablets must be crushed thoroughly to disolve properly. And they
>are considerably more expensive than the alternatives.

>If you are doing any serious amount of winemaking, you should obtain
>potassium or sodium metabisulphite powder or crystals, and make a 10%
>solution (25 grams per 250 ml cup of water). Make up about a pint, and
>put it in a tightly sealed DARK container (light will cause it to
>deteriorate). Then you can use 1 tsp. of solution in place of one
>campden tablet.

>For a sterilizer, use 1/2 tsp. metabisulphite + 1/2 tsp. citric acid
>per 250 ml. "cup" of water. Another common formula is 2 oz. sodium
>metabisulphite per gallon of water. The exact amount isn't important
>in a sanitizer. As stated above, a gallon kept topped up, should be
>more than enough.

>Sodium metabisulphite is about half the price of potassium
>metabisulpite, and perfectly adequate as a sanitizer. But it is
>probably better to use potassium metabisulphite IN the wine.
>Commercial wineries are not allowed to use the Sodium metabisulphite,
>and it can leave a bitter taste in your wine even if sodium isn't the
>evil susbtance current medical "science" claims).

>It is MUCH cheaper to use metabisulfite powder or crystals than
>Campden tablets. Grape&Granary sells Potassium Metabisulfite for $3.99
>per pound, and Sodium Metabisulfite for $2.19.

>And the thought of crushing 150 tablets ....

email:  daveallyn at bwsys dot net
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!
 
 
 

Sanitizing solution with campden

Post by Negod » Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:02:28


Quote:

> Ordered campden, not meta... But, I did get the potasium
> campden, not the sodium...  

I think all campden tablets are made with potassium meta now-a-days.
They are used in canning foods, and sodium has had an (undeserved) bad
rap for some time now.

By all means, use up your campden tablets. You've already paid for
them. :)

BTW, you can purchase smaller quantities of the powder/crystals for
less money. I just mentioned the prices of the one pound packages so
you could see how inexpensive it is compared to the tablets.

Quote:
> Is there anywhere else to find potasium metasulfite other then in a
> wine/beer shop??

Not that I know of. Outside of beer and wine making, it is used in the
food industry, but they purchase it in large quantities directly from
chemical manufacturers. Before I discovered Presque Isle and
Grape&Granary, I contacted one of them to see if I could purchase a
pound of food-grade meta from them. They wanted over $120 per pound!
Plus shipping!
 
 
 

Sanitizing solution with campden

Post by Lum » Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:16:39



Quote:
> Okay..  looks like I need to order some meta before long..   I'm just
> getting into this (finally got everything together for my first
> batch).  Ordered campden, not meta... But, I did get the potasium
> campden, not the sodium...

> Is there anywhere else to find potasium metasulfite other then in a
> wine/beer shop??

Several chemical suppliers sell food grade potassium metabisulfite.  Prices
run about $60 per 25 kilogram bag.
lum
 
 
 

Sanitizing solution with campden

Post by Dave All » Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:41:41


Is there anything wrong with useing a plastic gallon jug for the
storage?  I know not to use for a secondary, but can I go to the
store, get a gallon of distilled water, crush up 50tablets or so,
shake it up real good, and use that???


Quote:

>> Ordered campden, not meta... But, I did get the potasium
>> campden, not the sodium...  

>I think all campden tablets are made with potassium meta now-a-days.
>They are used in canning foods, and sodium has had an (undeserved) bad
>rap for some time now.

>By all means, use up your campden tablets. You've already paid for
>them. :)

>BTW, you can purchase smaller quantities of the powder/crystals for
>less money. I just mentioned the prices of the one pound packages so
>you could see how inexpensive it is compared to the tablets.

>> Is there anywhere else to find potasium metasulfite other then in a
>> wine/beer shop??

>Not that I know of. Outside of beer and wine making, it is used in the
>food industry, but they purchase it in large quantities directly from
>chemical manufacturers. Before I discovered Presque Isle and
>Grape&Granary, I contacted one of them to see if I could purchase a
>pound of food-grade meta from them. They wanted over $120 per pound!
>Plus shipping!

email:  daveallyn at bwsys dot net
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!
 
 
 

Sanitizing solution with campden

Post by Negod » Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:59:35


Quote:

> Is there anywhere else to find potasium metasulfite other then in a
> wine/beer shop??

Dave, since you ask this question earlier, I assume there is no
homebrew shop in your "neighborhood". You can order from the two I
mentioned earlier over the Internet, over the telephone, or by mail
order: Presque Isle is at www.piwine.com, Grape&Granary is at
www.grapeandgranary.com. Their prices on these items are very low, and
shipping will be about $7, perhaps less if you call them on the phone
and ask them to send it by priority mail instead of UPS.

Quote:
> Is there anything wrong with using a plastic gallon jug for the
> storage?  I know not to use for a secondary, but can I go to the
> store, get a gallon of distilled water, crush up 50tablets or so,
> shake it up real good, and use that???

I hope there's nothing wrong with it, for that's precisely what I do!
I use a one-gallon plastic cannister with a wide-mouth screw-top lid,
that I got from the dollar store (for $1).

That having been said, there's plastic and there's plastic. Stick to
white HDPE plastic if possible (it will be stamped HDPE with a "2" in
a recycling triangle, on the bottom). Some translucent PPE plastics
are ok as well. If it is sold for use with food, it is probably ok to
use for this purpose.

An empty (and thoroughly rinsed out) bleach bottle would work well,
however there is an advantage to using a wide-mouth bottle if you can
find one, because you can dip and soak things in it (e.g. corks,
racking canes, siphon tubing, etc.)

The distilled water bottle will work as well, but ... it isn't wide
mouth, it isn't opaque (and exposure to light will shorten the life of
your sterilizer), and the dw bottles aren't very sturdy. Since the
only thing in them is inexpensive and relatively non-destructive
water, they use very thin plastic with cheap seam welds. I used to
store water in them to keep in the back of my truck, but too many of
them split open at the seam. Now I use empty bleach bottles, which are
much sturdier because of the corrosive chemical content.

When you crush up your campden tablets, you should mix them with warm
water and stir, rather than shake. That will do a better job of
mixing.