acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by Ren » Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:44:03



I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe, and he
recommends adjusting the must to TA 0.65. I was amazed how much acid
it takes.

It's now just below .6%, and the pH is 2.65
Although a low pH can be expected (the fruit content in the must is
quite low), isn't this too low?? What happens during fermentation,
will the pH rise again?

Rene

 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by bb » Fri, 25 Oct 2002 00:47:43


Just thought I'd say this....

I have been burned time and time again adjusting acid in fruit wines.
Mostly in situations where there is a lot of bulk fruit "meat" still
in the must (fermenting something like straight apple cider doesn't
have this problem).  There is a lot of acid bound up in the meat of
the fruit that you can't measure until it gets broken down by the
yeast during the fermentation process.  As a result, I have
over-adjusted on day one more times than I'd like to admit.  I have
seen a nectarine must go from measured .40 on day one to .60 by the
time ferment was completed (that's without adding any acid).  The more
you smash or liquify the fruit before starting the ferment, the more
accurate reading your going to get.

I don't know what condition your ferment started out at, but I'd bet
if you had "chunks" of pear in there, you have added too much acid and
you are going to see the TA go up and the pH go down even more as the
ferment progress.

If I have a chunky must, I have gotten into the habit of waiting until
about half way through the ferment and then squeezing out some juice
and measuring and adjusting acid.  Another way of doing it is cold
macerating for a few days before adding yeast with some pectin enzyme.
 That breaks down the fruit too and you can get a better reading
before starting with the ferment.

Berry

Quote:

> I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe, and he
> recommends adjusting the must to TA 0.65. I was amazed how much acid
> it takes.

> It's now just below .6%, and the pH is 2.65
> Although a low pH can be expected (the fruit content in the must is
> quite low), isn't this too low?? What happens during fermentation,
> will the pH rise again?

> Rene


 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by Ren » Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:07:09


Berry,
Thanks for your reply, I'll keep it in the back of my mind.
Lum's recipe calls for 20 lb fruit, adding about 5 USgallons water,
leaving it for 2 days and siphoning off the clear juice in the
primary.

I am just wondering about the low pH.

Rene

Quote:

> Just thought I'd say this....

> I have been burned time and time again adjusting acid in fruit wines.
> Mostly in situations where there is a lot of bulk fruit "meat" still
> in the must (fermenting something like straight apple cider doesn't
> have this problem).  There is a lot of acid bound up in the meat of
> the fruit that you can't measure until it gets broken down by the
> yeast during the fermentation process.  As a result, I have
> over-adjusted on day one more times than I'd like to admit.  I have
> seen a nectarine must go from measured .40 on day one to .60 by the
> time ferment was completed (that's without adding any acid).  The more
> you smash or liquify the fruit before starting the ferment, the more
> accurate reading your going to get.

> I don't know what condition your ferment started out at, but I'd bet
> if you had "chunks" of pear in there, you have added too much acid and
> you are going to see the TA go up and the pH go down even more as the
> ferment progress.

> If I have a chunky must, I have gotten into the habit of waiting until
> about half way through the ferment and then squeezing out some juice
> and measuring and adjusting acid.  Another way of doing it is cold
> macerating for a few days before adding yeast with some pectin enzyme.
>  That breaks down the fruit too and you can get a better reading
> before starting with the ferment.

> Berry


> > I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe, and he
> > recommends adjusting the must to TA 0.65. I was amazed how much acid
> > it takes.

> > It's now just below .6%, and the pH is 2.65
> > Although a low pH can be expected (the fruit content in the must is
> > quite low), isn't this too low?? What happens during fermentation,
> > will the pH rise again?

> > Rene

 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by bb » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:22:54


I see.  So it was mostly juice that you were measuring.  It sounds
like your pH isn't going to change much then.  I don't know how much
acid you added, but that's probably the problem (too much).

If I were in your position, I would find myself adding more fruit,
sugar, and water to expand the volume of the batch.  The water will
bring down the pH (since you are adding a pH of ~7.0 to your present
2.65).  Make sure you add the fruit and the sugar to keep up the
relative *** content and body of your wine.  Just don't add any
more acid! :)  Keep everything in the same ratio that you followed for
your recipe and you should be fine.

How much?  I don't know.  Experiment by using a cup of your original
must and add water until you get to what you feel is an acceptable pH
level, then multiply up to what your real volume is.

Berry

Quote:

> Berry,
> Thanks for your reply, I'll keep it in the back of my mind.
> Lum's recipe calls for 20 lb fruit, adding about 5 USgallons water,
> leaving it for 2 days and siphoning off the clear juice in the
> primary.

> I am just wondering about the low pH.

> Rene


> > Just thought I'd say this....

> > I have been burned time and time again adjusting acid in fruit wines.
> > Mostly in situations where there is a lot of bulk fruit "meat" still
> > in the must (fermenting something like straight apple cider doesn't
> > have this problem).  There is a lot of acid bound up in the meat of
> > the fruit that you can't measure until it gets broken down by the
> > yeast during the fermentation process.  As a result, I have
> > over-adjusted on day one more times than I'd like to admit.  I have
> > seen a nectarine must go from measured .40 on day one to .60 by the
> > time ferment was completed (that's without adding any acid).  The more
> > you smash or liquify the fruit before starting the ferment, the more
> > accurate reading your going to get.

> > I don't know what condition your ferment started out at, but I'd bet
> > if you had "chunks" of pear in there, you have added too much acid and
> > you are going to see the TA go up and the pH go down even more as the
> > ferment progress.

> > If I have a chunky must, I have gotten into the habit of waiting until
> > about half way through the ferment and then squeezing out some juice
> > and measuring and adjusting acid.  Another way of doing it is cold
> > macerating for a few days before adding yeast with some pectin enzyme.
> >  That breaks down the fruit too and you can get a better reading
> > before starting with the ferment.

> > Berry


> > > I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe, and he
> > > recommends adjusting the must to TA 0.65. I was amazed how much acid
> > > it takes.

> > > It's now just below .6%, and the pH is 2.65
> > > Although a low pH can be expected (the fruit content in the must is
> > > quite low), isn't this too low?? What happens during fermentation,
> > > will the pH rise again?

> > > Rene

 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by Jesse Rossma » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 04:27:26


Quote:

> I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe,

> Rene

Rene,
I have found Lum's book on line, but where did you find the recipe?
Thanks
Jesse
 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by Ren » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 20:08:34


Quote:


> > I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe,

> > Rene

> Rene,
> I have found Lum's book on line, but where did you find the recipe?
> Thanks
> Jesse

Ehh, completely in the back with Making wine from fruit.

Rene

 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by Mike » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:37:26


Quote:


> > I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe,

> > Rene

> Rene,
> I have found Lum's book on line, but where did you find the recipe?
> Thanks
> Jesse

Jesse:
Go to "Making Fruit Wines" at http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt21.html
Then scroll to the end of the chapter.

Mike

 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by Ben Rott » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:33:21


Quote:
> I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe, and he
> recommends adjusting the must to TA 0.65. I was amazed how much acid
> it takes.
> It's now just below .6%, and the pH is 2.65
> Although a low pH can be expected (the fruit content in the must is
> quite low), isn't this too low?? What happens during fermentation,
> will the pH rise again?

Yes, pH 2.65 is pretty low! (Yet another reason why using more fruit
is a good thing - it generally gives better pH levels!)

I wouldn't expect maceration (on the fruit) to give much of a pH
increase in this case, and fermentation or even any tartrate formation
(if there is any) will tend to give a pH drop. Overall, I wouldn't
expect a big change, and I'd think a decrease is more likely than an
increase.

More importantly than worrying about the number itself, how does it
*taste*? I would expect it to be pretty tart at pH 2.65 and TA 6 g/l
but maybe with some residual sweetness it won't be too sharp.

If you want still want to increase pH, I'd personally prefer a
chemical/bacterial deacidification to dilution.

Next time, try adding more fruit or using a "body builder" (such as
grape juice, raisins etc) which not only give extra body but will
provide a higher pH in the must *and* act as a buffer if you need to
make TA adjustments.

Ben

 
 
 

acids in pear wine--Lum's recipe

Post by Ren » Fri, 01 Nov 2002 02:46:18


Ben, thanks for your reply. Don't know about the tartness yet: I'll
wait until fermentation is finished. For a change, I tried following a
recipe to the letter, and adjusted the TA to (almost) the recommended
level.

Key data: for 5 USgallons is used 10 kg pear pulp, mixed with just
under 5 USGallons of tepid water. SG is adjusted to 1.09, and acid to
an initial 0.4%. After two days the mass is strained in the primary,
TA adjusted to a final 0.60% and yeast added. (Lum recommends
siphoning off clear juice, but I was a bit hasty and ended up spending
more time on straining the whole ***y lot)
The pH of the must was 2.65 before the yeast was added.  

Carrying on from the TA/pH discussion, the Acid Taste Index would then
be around 0.9%, if an influence factor of 0.6 is used (thanks to Ed
Schloss for sharing his model with us.) That's quite high I think for
a supposed to be dry table wine, but more of this when fermentation is
finished.

Lum, if you're reading this, can you supply me with pH values of your
ferments??

Thanks, Ren

Quote:

> > I've started a batch off pear wine according to Lum's recipe, and he
> > recommends adjusting the must to TA 0.65. I was amazed how much acid
> > it takes.
> > It's now just below .6%, and the pH is 2.65
> > Although a low pH can be expected (the fruit content in the must is
> > quite low), isn't this too low?? What happens during fermentation,
> > will the pH rise again?

> Yes, pH 2.65 is pretty low! (Yet another reason why using more fruit
> is a good thing - it generally gives better pH levels!)

> I wouldn't expect maceration (on the fruit) to give much of a pH
> increase in this case, and fermentation or even any tartrate formation
> (if there is any) will tend to give a pH drop. Overall, I wouldn't
> expect a big change, and I'd think a decrease is more likely than an
> increase.

> More importantly than worrying about the number itself, how does it
> *taste*? I would expect it to be pretty tart at pH 2.65 and TA 6 g/l
> but maybe with some residual sweetness it won't be too sharp.

> If you want still want to increase pH, I'd personally prefer a
> chemical/bacterial deacidification to dilution.

> Next time, try adding more fruit or using a "body builder" (such as
> grape juice, raisins etc) which not only give extra body but will
> provide a higher pH in the must *and* act as a buffer if you need to
> make TA adjustments.

> Ben