crushing fruit for fruit wines

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by FOMA » Mon, 07 Jul 1997 04:00:00



Does anyone have any good ways to crush fruit when making fruit wine
(berries).
I do it by crushing small amounts by hand and then using a plastic press.
Can i use a grape crusher?

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by GREATFE » Wed, 09 Jul 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
(FOMART) writes:
>Does anyone have any good ways to crush fruit when making fruit wine

Why crush it at all ? It will crush itself. With enough juice to cover the
fruit, the yeast will cause the fruit to disintegrate. In a few days, you
will have nothing but pulp, which you can strain out to remove the skins
and small particles which don't break down, such as berry seeds. You
should remove the seeds from stone fruit, such as apricots and plums. Some
people like to leave a few peach stones in, for tannins, and some
cherry-stones contribute an almond-like flavor, but generally you just
tear stone fruit in half.

I have a free fruit wine handout, which I will send you if you'll send me
your snailmail address. Sorry I don't have it typed for e-mail, we lost
the file in a disc-crash,  it's two pages singlespaced, and us onefingered
typists don't have time to do it

Jay Conner
Greatferm

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by Joel Stav » Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> (FOMART) writes:
> >Does anyone have any good ways to crush fruit when making fruit wine

> Why crush it at all ? It will crush itself. With enough juice to cover the
> fruit, the yeast will cause the fruit to disintegrate. In a few days, you
> will have nothing but pulp, which you can strain out to remove the skins
> and small particles which don't break down, such as berry seeds.

I wouldn't go quite that far.  For example, blueberry wine will probably go a
lot better if you at least break the skins, allowing the yeast access to the
sugar in the berries.

--
Joel Stave

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by GREATFE » Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:00:00



writes:

Quote:
>For example, blueberry wine will probably go a
>lot better if you at least break the skins, allowing the yeast access to
the
>sugar in the berries.

The idea of Carbonic Maceration, widely practiced in the Beaujolais region
of France, is NOT to break the skins. I've done it several times with
grapes, and they ferment internally quite well, they are still intact, on
the stems, withered and well fermented at the end of about two weeks in a
sealed CO2 environment. You may find it illogical, but the life of the
grape is not logic, it is experience. (Holmes, in another context)

I have not tried it with blueberries...has anyone else ?

Jay Conner
Greatferm

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by Joel Stav » Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> The idea of Carbonic Maceration, widely practiced in the Beaujolais region
> of France, is NOT to break the skins. I've done it several times with
> grapes, and they ferment internally quite well, they are still intact, on
> the stems, withered and well fermented at the end of about two weeks in a
> sealed CO2 environment. You may find it illogical, but the life of the
> grape is not logic, it is experience. (Holmes, in another context)

> I have not tried it with blueberries...has anyone else ?

That's interesting.  I hadn't heard of that.  How does the yeast get into the
grape, and why doesn't the ferment happen while the berries are still on the
vine?

I suspect, however that for blueberries (and a number of other fruits) the lack
of sufficient sugar in the fruit might be a problem -- the result might be too
low *** to inhibit other nasties from causing problems.  The last batch of
blueberry I made, I measured the SG after mushing the berries, but before adding
anything else -- it was pretty hard to measure but it was quite low (something
like 1.02 or so).

Blueberry season is fast approaching.  Maybe I'll put some aside for an
experiment.  Any procedural details I need to be aware of?

--
Joel Stave

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by Joel Stav » Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> The last batch of
> blueberry I made, I measured the SG after mushing the berries, but
> before adding
> anything else -- it was pretty hard to measure but it was quite low
> (something
> like 1.02 or so).

Oops.  I just checked my records.  Make that 1.035 - 1.04  -- still
pretty low.

--
Joel Stave
[NOTE: to reply, remove the despam from my email address]

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by baiz.. » Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> > The idea of Carbonic Maceration, widely practiced in the Beaujolais region
> > of France, is NOT to break the skins. I've done it several times with
> > grapes, and they ferment internally quite well, they are still intact, on
> > the stems, withered and well fermented at the end of about two weeks in a
> > sealed CO2 environment. You may find it illogical, but the life of the
> > grape is not logic, it is experience. (Holmes, in another context)

> > I have not tried it with blueberries...has anyone else ?

> That's interesting.  I hadn't heard of that.  How does the yeast get into the
> grape, and why doesn't the ferment happen while the berries are still on the
> vine?

> I suspect, however that for blueberries (and a number of other fruits) the lack
> of sufficient sugar in the fruit might be a problem -- the result might be too
> low *** to inhibit other nasties from causing problems.  The last batch of
> blueberry I made, I measured the SG after mushing the berries, but before adding
> anything else -- it was pretty hard to measure but it was quite low (something
> like 1.02 or so).

> Blueberry season is fast approaching.  Maybe I'll put some aside for an
> experiment.  Any procedural details I need to be aware of?

> --
> Joel Stave


Carbonic maceration is not primarily a yeast fermentation. What you do
is put a little grape juice and yeast in the bottom of an airtight
container. This helps produce a CO2 blanket.  Then you purge the
container with co2 (if you have a tank) so no oxygen is present. Then
you dump in enough berries fill to the brim of the container and pop on
the lid.  CM doesn't produce heat like a regular fermentation so you'll
likely have to heat the fermenter if the temp is warm enough (80-95
degrees).  7-12 days later you pop off the lid press the now easy to
squish berries. Add the press wine to the free run and let it finish
fermenting in a carboy with some headspace and an airlock.

The secret is that the grapes ferment in their skin (auto fermentation).
It'll finish with a real fruity/flowery/forward sort of aroma and
flavor. I had a zin from a guy in Santa Cruz that made his wine with a
partial CM procedure.   It was really great blend of CM and regular
wine.  

A couple of references on carbonic maceration:
there is a brief section in peynauds "knowing and making wine"
isbn 0-471-88149-x
and another brief section in wagners "grapes into wine"
isbn 0-394-73172-7

I have never been brave enough to try it, but may this year it'd be a
good time to expand my horizons...

Does anyone have any more detailed info?

baiz

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by Giovan » Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>...
>Carbonic maceration is not primarily a yeast fermentation. What you do
>is put a little grape juice and yeast in the bottom of an airtight
>container. This helps produce a CO2 blanket.  Then you purge the
>container with co2 (if you have a tank) so no oxygen is present.

If you use CO2 from a tank, is there a purpose for adding 'a little grape
juice and yeast' in the bottom of the tank?

I tried CM last year for the first time and I am happy with the results.
However, since I am going to use this process again, I have read and
learned a bit more about CM.

It seems that the purpose of CO2 is to allow Enzyme Activity within the
berries to take place in the ABSENCE of oxygen. I also was under the
impression that yeast needs oxygen to start their 'activity'. Moreover, I
added some sulfite at the time of placing the berries in the tank, and I
was quite careful in not breaking any berries.

After the 12 days maceration, I processed the juice as a white wine.

Quote:
>Then you dump in enough berries fill to the brim of the container and
>pop on the lid.  CM doesn't produce heat like a regular fermentation so
>you'll likely have to heat the fermenter if the temp is warm enough

(80-95 degrees).  

Is this temperature rise/control necessary? I am still learning this
process, and from what I have heard so far it seems to go against 'the
grain'..

Quote:
>7-12 days later you pop off the lid press the now easy to
>squish berries. Add the press wine to the free run and let it finish
>fermenting in a carboy with some headspace and an airlock.

>The secret is that the grapes ferment in their skin (auto fermentation).

Again, I was under the impression that you don't ferment the grapes prior
to Carbonic Maceration (maceration, not fermentation).

But if you are referring to 'auto fermentation' as what happens after you
'squish' the grapes, then I don't understand what's automatic about the
process.

If you are referring to fermentation after the CM, why ferment on the
skins if no colour or tannin is necessary?

I know that the best method is what 'works for you', but I would be
interested in learning a little more about this. Anyone with experience?

Cheers,  Giovanni.

Quote:
>.....

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by GREATFE » Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>Does anyone have any more detailed info?

The best detailed article I know of was in an old American Wine Society
journal,
Summer 1984, volume 16, No 2.

This is ERRONEOUSLY indexed by AWS as vol 16 #1 in their index. For
reasons unknown to me, they chose not to include it in their recent
reprint of articles, titled "The Complete Handbook of Winemaking".  I
assume copies would be available from AWS, 3006 Latta Rd, Rochester NY
14612.

Jay Conner
Greatferm

 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by Basilio Amar » Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> >...

> >Carbonic maceration is not primarily a yeast fermentation. What you do
> >is put a little grape juice and yeast in the bottom of an airtight
> >container. This helps produce a CO2 blanket.  Then you purge the
> >container with co2 (if you have a tank) so no oxygen is present.

> If you use CO2 from a tank, is there a purpose for adding 'a little grape
> juice and yeast' in the bottom of the tank?

Yes, if your tank isn't quite airtight it will help drive off the oxygen
by forcing it out. It'll also protect any fruit that gets broken, by
fermenting the juice rather than letting it spoil.   You'll want to make
sure that the fermentaion has fully started on the grape juices though
when you add it to the bottom of your bin

Quote:

> I tried CM last year for the first time and I am happy with the results.
> However, since I am going to use this process again, I have read and
> learned a bit more about CM.

> It seems that the purpose of CO2 is to allow Enzyme Activity within the
> berries to take place in the ABSENCE of oxygen. I also was under the
> impression that yeast needs oxygen to start their 'activity'. Moreover, I
> added some sulfite at the time of placing the berries in the tank, and I
> was quite careful in not breaking any berries.

> After the 12 days maceration, I processed the juice as a white wine.

> >Then you dump in enough berries fill to the brim of the container and
> >pop on the lid.  CM doesn't produce heat like a regular fermentation so
> >you'll likely have to heat the fermenter if the temp is warm enough
> (80-95 degrees).

> Is this temperature rise/control necessary? I am still learning this
> process, and from what I have heard so far it seems to go against 'the
> grain'..

Fermentation releases heat and that usually is enough for the
homewinemaker to get good extraction.  CM releases no heat at all, so if
you didn't heat it up you'd up with a very light wine if you lived in a
cool area.  As to whether a lower temperature will halt the enzymatic
activity.  I can't answer that but the books I have read recommend this
temp range.

Quote:

> >7-12 days later you pop off the lid press the now easy to
> >squish berries. Add the press wine to the free run and let it finish
> >fermenting in a carboy with some headspace and an airlock.

> >The secret is that the grapes ferment in their skin (auto fermentation).

> Again, I was under the impression that you don't ferment the grapes prior
> to Carbonic Maceration (maceration, not fermentation).

The fermentaion happens within the skins with no exposure to the yeast
providing the protective layer, regardless that they are in the same
container.

Quote:

> But if you are referring to 'auto fermentation' as what happens after you
> 'squish' the grapes, then I don't understand what's automatic about the
> process.

When you squish the grapes, *** will have already been created
inside the grape, but it's possible that not all of it will be
converted. That's why you mix the press and the free run together.  It
assures that the residual suger is converted to ***. Apparently it
only takes a couple of days to ferment out.

Quote:
> If you are referring to fermentation after the CM, why ferment on the
> skins if no colour or tannin is necessary?

You'll end up with a light wine no matter what as the process doen't
allow for a lengthy time on the skins

Quote:

> I know that the best method is what 'works for you', but I would be
> interested in learning a little more about this. Anyone with experience?

I guess I'll have to do it this year to see if what I think I learned is
correct. Hope this helps.

best,
baiz

Quote:
> Cheers,  Giovanni.

> >.....

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crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by TGlath » Tue, 15 Jul 1997 04:00:00


If you are dealing with small amounts of fruit, I suggest freezing the
fruit.  I have had excelent results with this method.  After the fruit
thaws, I like to ferment it on the skins for a couple of days then strain
the must through a nylon mesh bag ( available through most wine making
suppliers) which I squeeze buy hand.  I find that this method will extract
most of the juice without a press.

Tom G.


 
 
 

crushing fruit for fruit wines

Post by Lea Ravag » Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Try one of those mashed potato wire things.
-Lea



Quote:
> Does anyone have any good ways to crush fruit when making fruit wine
> (berries).
> I do it by crushing small amounts by hand and then using a plastic press.
> Can i use a grape crusher?