Bottle Sediment

Bottle Sediment

Post by chad.a.har.. » Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:38:35



I have been having a problem with sediment in the bottles recently.  I
am thinking that it is the result of the campden I add before bottling.
 I usually only make 1 gallon batches so it is easier to use campden,
however with the inert binding agents I often see "floaties" in the
wine after the late addition.  How can I avoid this in the future?  The
last batch bulk aged and was crystal clear, then I added campden and
sorbate, bottled, and now I have sediment?
 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by Dar » Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:55:11


How long between adding the campden & sorbate, and then bottling?
Darlene
Wisconsin


Quote:
>I have been having a problem with sediment in the bottles recently.  I
> am thinking that it is the result of the campden I add before bottling.
> I usually only make 1 gallon batches so it is easier to use campden,
> however with the inert binding agents I often see "floaties" in the
> wine after the late addition.  How can I avoid this in the future?  The
> last batch bulk aged and was crystal clear, then I added campden and
> sorbate, bottled, and now I have sediment?


 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by pp » Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:35:05


Quote:

> I have been having a problem with sediment in the bottles recently.
I
> am thinking that it is the result of the campden I add before
bottling.
>  I usually only make 1 gallon batches so it is easier to use campden,
> however with the inert binding agents I often see "floaties" in the
> wine after the late addition.  How can I avoid this in the future?
The
> last batch bulk aged and was crystal clear, then I added campden and
> sorbate, bottled, and now I have sediment?

If it's the Campdens then just use potassium meta powder instead. It
has no binding agent, and it's cheaper. Personally, I think Campdens
should be firmly relegated to the dungeons of the past.

Pp

 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by pink » Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:28:44


Why are you adding sorbate after bulk aging?

Totally *rse about face! (IMHO).

 I rarely use sorbate anyway, because I ferment all my wines totally dry,
and certainly would NEVER, NEVER do it at the end of bulk aging. The process
of aging is, among other important things, a slow process of degassing and
all fermentation has to be completed before you bulk age!

Similarly I use  crushed, dissolved, campden tablets as a known measured
dose when I adjust the SO2 levels before bulk aging.

I do not adjust again immediately before bottling!

I normally bulk age for at least one year for my red wines and over 6 months
for my ordinary whites.

In 30+ years of wine making I have never had your problem! So perhaps I
might be doing something different to the way you are doing it

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM"  from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

Quote:
>I have been having a problem with sediment in the bottles recently.  I
> am thinking that it is the result of the campden I add before bottling.
> I usually only make 1 gallon batches so it is easier to use campden,
> however with the inert binding agents I often see "floaties" in the
> wine after the late addition.  How can I avoid this in the future?  The
> last batch bulk aged and was crystal clear, then I added campden and
> sorbate, bottled, and now I have sediment?

 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by Dar » Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:54:44


Trevor,
If I fermented all my wines to dry, I wouldn't stabilize either.  BUT I like
my wines a bit on the sweet side, hence I sweeten/add campden tablet/&
stabilize - I've had no bottle bombs since I started doing this. You're
right on so many points....I was merely asking how soon the original poster
bottled after stabilizing...and it is an important point. I believe, Jack,
recommends waiting at least 10 days after sweetening & stabilizing before
bottling, but from what I've read on his site, he suggests you wait a month.
I usually wait a month as well now - I think if you do, it helps reduce the
amount of sediment in your bottles. Anyway, I'm not sure if we're talking
about a wine kit, or a fruit wine, or grape wines. I've noticed, those who
make wine kits stabilize pretty early in the process. Some of us who haven't
been making wine as long as you, well, we're still learning....
Darlene
Wisconsin ;o)

Quote:
> Why are you adding sorbate after bulk aging?

> Totally *rse about face! (IMHO).

> I rarely use sorbate anyway, because I ferment all my wines totally dry,
> and certainly would NEVER, NEVER do it at the end of bulk aging. The
> process of aging is, among other important things, a slow process of
> degassing and all fermentation has to be completed before you bulk age!

> Similarly I use  crushed, dissolved, campden tablets as a known measured
> dose when I adjust the SO2 levels before bulk aging.

> I do not adjust again immediately before bottling!

> I normally bulk age for at least one year for my red wines and over 6
> months for my ordinary whites.

> In 30+ years of wine making I have never had your problem! So perhaps I
> might be doing something different to the way you are doing it

> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "PSANTISPAM"  from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!


>>I have been having a problem with sediment in the bottles recently.  I
>> am thinking that it is the result of the campden I add before bottling.
>> I usually only make 1 gallon batches so it is easier to use campden,
>> however with the inert binding agents I often see "floaties" in the
>> wine after the late addition.  How can I avoid this in the future?  The
>> last batch bulk aged and was crystal clear, then I added campden and
>> sorbate, bottled, and now I have sediment?

 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by pp » Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:15:54


Quote:

> Why are you adding sorbate after bulk aging?

> Totally *rse about face! (IMHO).

>  I rarely use sorbate anyway, because I ferment all my wines totally
dry,
> and certainly would NEVER, NEVER do it at the end of bulk aging. The
process
> of aging is, among other important things, a slow process of
degassing and
> all fermentation has to be completed before you bulk age!

> Similarly I use  crushed, dissolved, campden tablets as a known
measured
> dose when I adjust the SO2 levels before bulk aging.

> I do not adjust again immediately before bottling!

> I normally bulk age for at least one year for my red wines and over 6
months
> for my ordinary whites.

> In 30+ years of wine making I have never had your problem! So perhaps
I
> might be doing something different to the way you are doing it

I agree with the sorbate but not with the sulfite, I find I have to
adjust that regularly during aging and before bottling to maintain
normal SO2 levels. But perhaps this is because I'm not dealing with
kits and racking several times during this process.

Pp

 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by pink » Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:53:49


There might be a bit of a misconception here.

I do not only refer to making wine with kits and I make "country wines" ( so
called) regularly, though no longer on the scale that I used to do --  due
to lack of storage space in my small flat ( apartment to you  in US). My
well ventilated bedroom is also my fermenting room and bulk store ( after
all I only sleep in my bedroom!) and I can additionally store about 200
bottles on racks in my larder. My main country wines these days are
blackberry ( with a tad of elderberry), apricot ( a favourite of mine) and
rhubarb -- still a tremendously useful wine to have a couple of 1 gallon
jars of in reserve and strawberry. I make strawberry every year but others
now every other year. My fortified elderberry is made every 3 years or so
these days (but goes through a very different aging process). The trouble is
that country wines do generally need a couple of years in bulk storage ( not
strawberry).

In my original post I referred specifically to bulk storage. By this I meant
the time after which my wine sits in it 24 litre glass carboys and is NOT
disturbed at all -- not even moved from its position until the day I come to
bottle it.
Before this time all necessary interference with the wine has been completed
and all lees have settled out.
 There will be, inevitably, a very minor dusting in the carboy after bulk
aging but this will not affect the wine in anyway.
If, for any reason, I have to check the wine under bulk store, during this
resting time by taste or other test I might a readjust the SO2 --- but very
rarely. It would be very very unusual for me to have to rerack the maturing
wine during  this resting/maturing period.

I am not an expert in winemaking by any means except that most of my methods
are as a result of long experience. One of the prime things I learned (
learnt?),  many years ago, is that there tends to be too much "hands on"
interference with wines during all of the wine making process. Too many
hydrometer readings taken, too many peeks under the lid to see what is
happening, --- too much being "busy" with the wine. You have only to peruse
the columns here to see what I mean!  Wine benefits by being left to get on
by itself. It is robust and likes to make itself. Wine likes to trundle
along in its own way without being rushed -- as, I suppose, do I!!
 am sure that I do several things "wrong" by modern standards and long
experience is by no means necessarily "right" --  but I have only ever once
thrown away any of my wine   -- last year as a matter of fact.  I came to
bottle my last 1 gallon ( imp) of my fortified elderberry (vintage 1998 ).
which had been sitting gently in a remote corner, sealed off and undisturbed
for several years.
It turned out to be neither fortified, nor elderberry,  nor indeed wine any
more. I don't know how the labelling mistake was made but when I cleaned off
the dust from the jar ( I always write on the carboy as well in felt pen) I
found it to be a gallon of a kit wine ( out of 5  which I had made for a
friend) Anyway it wasn't wine any more or of any other use and was poured on
my flowerbeds!

Apologies for the long ramble! ( or should that be "bramble")

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM"  from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

Quote:
> Why are you adding sorbate after bulk aging?

<snip><snip>
 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by Dar » Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:36:58


    No apologies necessary. You're at a point I wish I was at. I'm still
building up my reserves, and I don't bulk age very long. I'm hoping to begin
bulk aging for longer periods of time next year. I basically make fruit,
veggie, herb, and frozen concentrate wines. I agree with you on everything -
we shouldn't fiddle too much with our wines and patience is an important
part. Most of us are not where you are though, with many years of
experience, and with a lot of wines in reserve which have already aged. A
lot of us are new at this or relatively new at this, and it is just a
different perspective.
    For example, I'm sure you never have bottle sediment with the extended
bulk aging you do. I usually don't have any sediment either, or if I do, it
is a very light dusting (which I can live with) until I build up my
reserves. I usually bottle at 7 months, which for some wines is early. I
think some of the recent posts we've had are due to bottling the wine too
young and not realizing that more sediment will fall out. And that comes
from experience.
Darlene ;o)
Wisconsin


Quote:
> There might be a bit of a misconception here.

> I do not only refer to making wine with kits and I make "country wines"
> ( so called) regularly, though no longer on the scale that I used to do --  
> due to lack of storage space in my small flat ( apartment to you  in US).
> My well ventilated bedroom is also my fermenting room and bulk store (
> after all I only sleep in my bedroom!) and I can additionally store about
> 200 bottles on racks in my larder. My main country wines these days are
> blackberry ( with a tad of elderberry), apricot ( a favourite of mine) and
> rhubarb -- still a tremendously useful wine to have a couple of 1 gallon
> jars of in reserve and strawberry. I make strawberry every year but others
> now every other year. My fortified elderberry is made every 3 years or so
> these days (but goes through a very different aging process). The trouble
> is that country wines do generally need a couple of years in bulk storage
> ( not strawberry).

> In my original post I referred specifically to bulk storage. By this I
> meant the time after which my wine sits in it 24 litre glass carboys and
> is NOT disturbed at all -- not even moved from its position until the day
> I come to bottle it.
> Before this time all necessary interference with the wine has been
> completed and all lees have settled out.
> There will be, inevitably, a very minor dusting in the carboy after bulk
> aging but this will not affect the wine in anyway.
> If, for any reason, I have to check the wine under bulk store, during this
> resting time by taste or other test I might a readjust the SO2 --- but
> very rarely. It would be very very unusual for me to have to rerack the
> maturing wine during  this resting/maturing period.

> I am not an expert in winemaking by any means except that most of my
> methods are as a result of long experience. One of the prime things I
> learned ( learnt?),  many years ago, is that there tends to be too much
> "hands on" interference with wines during all of the wine making process.
> Too many hydrometer readings taken, too many peeks under the lid to see
> what is happening, --- too much being "busy" with the wine. You have only
> to peruse the columns here to see what I mean!  Wine benefits by being
> left to get on by itself. It is robust and likes to make itself. Wine
> likes to trundle along in its own way without being rushed -- as, I
> suppose, do I!!
> am sure that I do several things "wrong" by modern standards and long
> experience is by no means necessarily "right" --  but I have only ever
> once thrown away any of my wine   -- last year as a matter of fact.  I
> came to bottle my last 1 gallon ( imp) of my fortified elderberry (vintage
> 1998 ). which had been sitting gently in a remote corner, sealed off and
> undisturbed for several years.
> It turned out to be neither fortified, nor elderberry,  nor indeed wine
> any more. I don't know how the labelling mistake was made but when I
> cleaned off the dust from the jar ( I always write on the carboy as well
> in felt pen) I found it to be a gallon of a kit wine ( out of 5  which I
> had made for a friend) Anyway it wasn't wine any more or of any other use
> and was poured on my flowerbeds!

> Apologies for the long ramble! ( or should that be "bramble")

> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "PSANTISPAM"  from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!


>> Why are you adding sorbate after bulk aging?
> <snip><snip>

 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by chad.a.har.. » Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:57:08


I added the sorbate and campden to the bottling bucket and then
bottled.  As to using pot meta powder, I am unsure of the measurement
to use for one gallon batches (See post below).
 
 
 

Bottle Sediment

Post by pp » Sun, 13 Feb 2005 04:03:37


Quote:

> I added the sorbate and campden to the bottling bucket and then
> bottled.  As to using pot meta powder, I am unsure of the measurement
> to use for one gallon batches (See post below).

1/4 tsp of the meta powder gives 50ppm for 5 US gals. For smaller
measures, like 1 gallon, my approach is to make the 1/4 tsp in 25ml of
cold water and then use a pipette or syringe to draw how much I want.
For example, for 50ppm in 1 gal, you'd need 5ml of the solution, for
25ppm 2.5 ml etc. There is a bit of math involved but very simple.

I don't use Campden but believe 1 tablet is supposed to give 50ppm in 1
gal, so the above should give you an equivalent measure with the
powder.

Other common approach is to use a 10% solution - if you do a search,
you should easily find tables that list how much of this solution is
needed per given amount of wine and desired concentration of SO2.

Pp