Cyser not fermenting

Cyser not fermenting

Post by Vicky Row » Wed, 12 Nov 1997 04:00:00



Hi fellow homebrewers!

Got a problem for the collective. I am making a cyser, and the little
sucker won't get going on a ferment worth a darn. Here's the
particulars:

Recipe:
5 gal pastuerized apple cider
1 lb brown sugar
2 lbs clover honey
10 cinnamon sticks
palmful ea of dried lemon and orange peel (abt. 1.5 tsp ea)
palmful ea of crushed cardamom, allspice

I brought 1 gal of the cider to 160d and added honey, brown sugar and
spices, stirring to mix well. I simmered at this temp for 15 minutes.
When simmering was done, I strained the mixture into a 5 gal carboy,
onto 3 of the remaining 4 gals of cider (which were at room temp),
reserving 1 gal for secondary. Rehydrated 1 pkg Pastuer champagne yeast.
When temp reached 77-80 deg, I pitched the yeast with yeast nutrient,
and shook the carboy for a few minutes. The SG at this time was 1.080. I
then airlocked it and wrapped it in a blanket to ferment. 4 days later,
no sign of fermentation except that I had positive pressure in the
airlock. One day later, no positive pressure! This was Sunday, and the
brewshop wasn't open til Tuesday, so, worried that I was making a lot of
vinegar, I rehydrated and pitched 2.5 tsp of bread yeast, shaking it up
well (I know, but I was desparate). On Tuesday, still no sign of
fermentation other than positive pressure. So, I went to the brewshop,
picked up a package of Wyeast dry mead yeast (I've had good luck and
great ferments with this stuff), smacked it and pitched it the next
evening (Wed). Well, I had a bubble here and there in the airlock, and
positive pressure, but no obvious fermentation. At this point, puzzled
and out of ideas, I went to the American Brewmaster and talked with
Mike. He felt that I had a *very* slow fermentation due to the fact that
I keep my house at 68-70d F, and on the floor, where the carboy is,
would be much cooler, say 63-65. He recommended setting it near a
heating vent to warm it up til fermentation kicked off vigorously, then
move it back to it's normal place under the bar. This I did on Friday.
Well, here it is Tuesday again, and it only bubbles when the heat is on!
I checked the SG and it's sitting at around 1.070 (kinda hard to see
thru the glass/cider haze in the carboy). So, I have had a *little*
fermenting, but not very much.  BTW, I've done two batches of mead by
just pitching the Wyeast pack smacked, no starters, and have had happy
yeasties both times, bubbling merrily away at 1-2 bubbles/sec for days!
The mead batches sit just a few feet away, so I don't think ambient temp
is the issue. Both the meads did their primary ferment in a bucket, not
a carboy.

So, I have several suppositions:
1. Cider doesn't like to primary in carboys.
2. Yeasties are cold and won't do their thing.
3. I got bad yeast (not likely, this shop is pretty reliable)
4. I'm not meant to have hard cider.
5. Auuuugggghhhhh!

So, fellow enthusiasts, I would greatly appreciate any ideas you might
have as to how to kick the ferment up a little higher. I don't want it
roiling, cause I know I'll get  a better flavor with a slow ferment, but
this is ridiculous!

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Vicky Rowe
Tyro Meadster

--
===========================================
http://www.rcci.com/vicky

" No good deed ever goes unpunished" --Anonymous

To mail me: remove the word dot from my replyto.

My opinions etc.

 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by Sheryl Nance-Durs » Wed, 12 Nov 1997 04:00:00


\

Quote:
> Got a problem for the collective. I am making a cyser, and the little
> sucker won't get going on a ferment worth a darn. Here's the
> particulars:

> Recipe:
> 5 gal pastuerized apple cider
> 1 lb brown sugar
> 2 lbs clover honey
> 10 cinnamon sticks
> palmful ea of dried lemon and orange peel (abt. 1.5 tsp ea)
> palmful ea of crushed cardamom, allspice
<snip>
> So, fellow enthusiasts, I would greatly appreciate any ideas you might
> have as to how to kick the ferment up a little higher. I don't want it
> roiling, cause I know I'll get  a better flavor with a slow ferment, but
> this is ridiculous!

One question -- if you purchased the cider at the store, did it have
preservative in it?  If so, you might want to get a VERY large starter
going before adding it to the carboy in order to overwhelm the
preservatives (if possible).  

Sheryl Nance-Durst

 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by georg hawk » Wed, 12 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi fellow homebrewers!

> Got a problem for the collective. I am making a cyser, and the little
> sucker won't get going on a ferment worth a darn. Here's the
> particulars:

> Recipe:
> 5 gal pastuerized apple cider
> 1 lb brown sugar
> 2 lbs clover honey
> 10 cinnamon sticks
> palmful ea of dried lemon and orange peel (abt. 1.5 tsp ea)
> palmful ea of crushed cardamom, allspice
(snip)
> So, I have several suppositions:
> 1. Cider doesn't like to primary in carboys.
> 2. Yeasties are cold and won't do their thing.
> 3. I got bad yeast (not likely, this shop is pretty reliable)
> 4. I'm not meant to have hard cider.

I have done cider successfully in the carboy. I would try adding yeast
nutrient as per bottle directions. This should make your yeasties a
little happier, and healthier.

Cheers!
georg
non ani sunt permittendi

 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by Jack Blackfor » Wed, 12 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Vicky,

Does your ciders label read Potasium Sorbate?  Try a new starter, add an
equal volume of must after the starter gets going, double the volume
again until you reach 1 gallon and then add that to your must.

Blackberry Jack

 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by Mark Hedi » Wed, 12 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi fellow homebrewers!

> Got a problem for the collective.

> So, fellow enthusiasts, I would greatly appreciate any ideas
> this is ridiculous!

> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

> Vicky Rowe
> Tyro Meadster

> To mail me: remove the word dot from my replyto.

Vicky,
You might try adding five teaspoons of dissolved yeast nutrient.
You might raise the carboy temperature for another day.
You might try racking it once, in case there was some yeast-inhibiting
chemicals in the cider or other ingredients.
You might try just leaving it to slowly ferment for two months.
  Good luck!
- Mark
 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by Vicky Row » Wed, 12 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> > Hi fellow homebrewers!

> > Got a problem for the collective.

> > So, fellow enthusiasts, I would greatly appreciate any ideas
> > this is ridiculous!

> > Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

> > Vicky Rowe
> > Tyro Meadster

> > To mail me: remove the word dot from my replyto.

> Vicky,
> You might try adding five teaspoons of dissolved yeast nutrient.

Ok, sounds good....

Quote:
> You might raise the carboy temperature for another day.

Working on that now......

Quote:
> You might try racking it once, in case there was some yeast-inhibiting
> chemicals in the cider or other ingredients.

Good idea! I've another primary bucket, maybe racking to that will help
it take off....

Quote:
> You might try just leaving it to slowly ferment for two months.

The thought occurred to me, but, *darn it*, I was really hoping to take
some home for Xmas.......

Quote:
>   Good luck!
> - Mark

Thanks, Mark!  I'll keep you posted......

Vicky Rowe
--
===========================================
http://www.rcci.com/vicky

" No good deed ever goes unpunished" --Anonymous

To mail me: remove the word dot from my replyto.

My opinions etc.

 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by joe bar » Thu, 13 Nov 1997 04:00:00


I was wondering if you skimmed the foam off the honey while it was
simmering.  For all my batches of mead, I boil the honey in a gallon
of water till all the white shit stops coming to the top.  I read
somewhere that this is primarily bees wax, and that the stuff is bad
for yeasties.

I have made several batches of cyser and made the mistake of boiling
the apple cider the first time.  The stuff never cleared due to all
the pectin and the enzyme just didn't work.

I can't offer any more ideas on how to proceed, just supposition as to
the cause.

Good luck.

Joe

 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by Vicky Row » Thu, 13 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> I was wondering if you skimmed the foam off the honey while it was
> simmering.  For all my batches of mead, I boil the honey in a gallon
> of water till all the white shit stops coming to the top.  I read
> somewhere that this is primarily bees wax, and that the stuff is bad
> for yeasties.

Well, I don't boil my meads or cysers, so not much skimming gets done.
The honey I'm using is unprocessed, but filtered pretty well, so even
for my first mead, which I did boil, there wasn't much scum. Interesting
thought, tho.
Quote:

> I have made several batches of cyser and made the mistake of boiling
> the apple cider the first time.  The stuff never cleared due to all
> the pectin and the enzyme just didn't work.

Yup, I did that with a mead containing apples. ***!! I didn't boil
this,
just got the temp up to 160 for 15 minutes, and added the honey while
stirring.
No scum (only two lbs of honey, in any case), but you might have a point
here...

FYI, the sucker *is* bubbling, but v.....e....r...y slowly. Guess I'll
just
have to be patient.....<wry grin>

Vicky Rowe
Itinerant Meadster

--
===========================================
http://www.FoundCollection.com/

" No good deed ever goes unpunished" --Anonymous

To mail me: remove the word dot from my replyto.

My opinions etc.

 
 
 

Cyser not fermenting

Post by Vicky Row » Thu, 13 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Vicky,

> Does your ciders label read Potasium Sorbate?  Try a new starter, add an
> equal volume of must after the starter gets going, double the volume
> again until you reach 1 gallon and then add that to your must.

> Blackberry Jack

I'll check, but I don't *think* it has Potassium Sorbate. If it does,
tho, I'll give this a try!  Thanks!

Vicky Rowe
Itinerant Meadster
--
===========================================
http://www.rcci.com/vicky

" No good deed ever goes unpunished" --Anonymous

To mail me: remove the word dot from my replyto.

My opinions etc.