Parts per Million?

Parts per Million?

Post by David Curren » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:10:40



I am bottling some strawberry I made last year and I needed to sweeten it up
a bit. So I added a lttle sugar syrup to it and now I want to be sure that
it doesn't begin fermenting in the bottle.  My book says to add sorbate to
about 200 to 300 parts per million. How can I figure out what that would be
per each 750 ml bottle.

Thanks, I really like this group.

David Currens

 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by David C Breed » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:50:20


Quote:

>I am bottling some strawberry I made last year and I needed to sweeten it up
>a bit. So I added a lttle sugar syrup to it and now I want to be sure that
>it doesn't begin fermenting in the bottle.  My book says to add sorbate to
>about 200 to 300 parts per million. How can I figure out what that would be
>per each 750 ml bottle.
>Thanks, I really like this group.
>David Currens

Hi David,

In the winemaking world, ppm just means "mg/l."   So for a 750 ml
bottle, just take the appropriate ppm figure and mulitply by 0.75.

Dave

P.S.  Are there other chemists out there who have a differnet measning
for ppm?  I thought I remembered learning in chemistry that it was
more complicatd than that, and had literally to do with the number of
molecules of each substance, such tht you had so many molecules of one
per million molecules of the other.  Did I make that up?
****************************************************************************


 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by Pavel31 » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 23:49:02


I use a half teaspoon per gallon. There are roughly five 750 ml bottles
per gallon, so use a tenth teaspoon per bottle. Instead of adding to
each individual bottle, add the sorbate to the bulk batch after adding
the syrup and let it set for a couple of weeks, just to let any
additional fermentation work itself out before the yeast dies off.

Also, the common wisdom is that you should add a Campden tablet per
gallon when adding sorbate to prevent a "geranium" taste from developing.

Paul

Quote:

> I am bottling some strawberry I made last year and I needed to sweeten it up
> a bit. So I added a lttle sugar syrup to it and now I want to be sure that
> it doesn't begin fermenting in the bottle.  My book says to add sorbate to
> about 200 to 300 parts per million. How can I figure out what that would be
> per each 750 ml bottle.

> Thanks, I really like this group.

> David Currens

 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by Greg Coo » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:03:23



Quote:


>> I am bottling some strawberry I made last year and I needed to sweeten it up
>> a bit. So I added a lttle sugar syrup to it and now I want to be sure that
>> it doesn't begin fermenting in the bottle.  My book says to add sorbate to
>> about 200 to 300 parts per million. How can I figure out what that would be
>> per each 750 ml bottle.

>> Thanks, I really like this group.

>> David Currens

> Hi David,

> In the winemaking world, ppm just means "mg/l."   So for a 750 ml
> bottle, just take the appropriate ppm figure and mulitply by 0.75.

> Dave

> P.S.  Are there other chemists out there who have a differnet measning
> for ppm?  I thought I remembered learning in chemistry that it was
> more complicatd than that, and had literally to do with the number of
> molecules of each substance, such tht you had so many molecules of one
> per million molecules of the other.  Did I make that up?
> ****************************************************************************


Yes, it can be a bit more complicated.  You are thinking of the dreaded
"moles" !!  Since different molecules have different masses, measuring by
weight does not give you the same molecule to molecule ratio if the masses
are different.  Thus, chemists use moles.  One mole of a substance is
6.02x10^23 molecules.  Thus, one mole of water will weigh different than one
mole of sugar.

Does this distinction make any difference on the scale for winemaking?
Well, the difference is probably well within your error for measuring
anyway, so using weight works.

 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by Kent Perss » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 04:54:43


On 4 Nov 2001 08:50:20 -0500 in rec.crafts.winemaking,

[...]

Quote:
> P.S.  Are there other chemists out there who have a differnet measning
> for ppm?

The main point with ppm (and ppb, ppt etc.), I think, is that it has to
be the same quantity in the denominator as in the nominator: mg/kg
(mass/mass), or l/l (volume/volume), but never g/l (mass/volume), or
ml/kg (volume/mass).

I personally don't like the ppm unit, there are much better ways do
describe a concentration of something. mg/l is a much better unit in
everyday life.

Quote:
> I thought I remembered learning in chemistry that it was
> more complicatd than that, and had literally to do with the number of
> molecules of each substance, such tht you had so many molecules of one
> per million molecules of the other.  Did I make that up?

I don't think you did. When using ppm about gases then ppmv (ppm volume)
is the same as ppm moles under ideal conditions (since pV=nRT). Since
one mole is 6.022e23 molecules one ppm volume is equivalent to one ppm
molecules.

--
/Kent Persson
http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/svalbardifast/
Jelena Dokic Play of the day
http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/svalbardifast/jelena.jpg

 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by Kent Perss » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 04:54:37


On Sat, 3 Nov 2001 20:10:40 -0800 in rec.crafts.winemaking, "David

Quote:

> I am bottling some strawberry I made last year and I needed to sweeten it up
> a bit. So I added a lttle sugar syrup to it and now I want to be sure that
> it doesn't begin fermenting in the bottle.  My book says to add sorbate to
> about 200 to 300 parts per million. How can I figure out what that would be
> per each 750 ml bottle.

ppm can mean mg/kg (milligrams per kilograms), or g/g (micrograms per
gram), or g/Mg (grams per megagram), or any other combination where the
unit in the denominator is a million times larger than the unit
numerator.

Like David (not you) wrote you can add sorbate in mg/l.

Lets say you want 250ppm: 250ppm = 250mg/l.
One bottle = 0.75l, so 250 mg/l * 0.75l/bottle = 187.5mg/bottle.

--
/Kent Persson
http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/svalbardifast/
Jelena Dokic Play of the day
http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/svalbardifast/jelena.jpg

 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by Mark Willstatt » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 05:48:29


Quote:




> >> I am bottling some strawberry I made last year and I needed to sweeten it up
> >> a bit. So I added a lttle sugar syrup to it and now I want to be sure that
> >> it doesn't begin fermenting in the bottle.  My book says to add sorbate to
> >> about 200 to 300 parts per million. How can I figure out what that would be
> >> per each 750 ml bottle.

> >> Thanks, I really like this group.

> >> David Currens

> > Hi David,

> > In the winemaking world, ppm just means "mg/l."   So for a 750 ml
> > bottle, just take the appropriate ppm figure and mulitply by 0.75.

> > Dave

> > P.S.  Are there other chemists out there who have a differnet measning
> > for ppm?  I thought I remembered learning in chemistry that it was
> > more complicatd than that, and had literally to do with the number of
> > molecules of each substance, such tht you had so many molecules of one
> > per million molecules of the other.  Did I make that up?
> > ****************************************************************************

> Yes, it can be a bit more complicated.  You are thinking of the dreaded
> "moles" !!  Since different molecules have different masses, measuring by
> weight does not give you the same molecule to molecule ratio if the masses
> are different.  Thus, chemists use moles.  One mole of a substance is
> 6.02x10^23 molecules.  Thus, one mole of water will weigh different than one
> mole of sugar.

> Does this distinction make any difference on the scale for winemaking?
> Well, the difference is probably well within your error for measuring
> anyway, so using weight works.

This is making things more complicated than it needs to be.  When we
talk about ppm in winemaking, we mean by mass.  It's not molecules of
one chemical per million molecules of another,so moles and so forth
don't have anything to do with it.  Since a liter of something with a
specific gravity of 1.000 (water or finished wine, close enough)
weighs 1000 grams and there are 1000 milligrams (mg) in a gram and
1000 times a 1000 is a million, mg/l is the same thing as ppm.  It
really is that simple.
 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by Greg Coo » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 06:42:32


On 11/6/01 2:48 PM, in article

Quote:






>>>> I am bottling some strawberry I made last year and I needed to sweeten it
>>>> up
>>>> a bit. So I added a lttle sugar syrup to it and now I want to be sure that
>>>> it doesn't begin fermenting in the bottle.  My book says to add sorbate to
>>>> about 200 to 300 parts per million. How can I figure out what that would be
>>>> per each 750 ml bottle.

>>>> Thanks, I really like this group.

>>>> David Currens

>>> Hi David,

>>> In the winemaking world, ppm just means "mg/l."   So for a 750 ml
>>> bottle, just take the appropriate ppm figure and mulitply by 0.75.

>>> Dave

>>> P.S.  Are there other chemists out there who have a differnet measning
>>> for ppm?  I thought I remembered learning in chemistry that it was
>>> more complicatd than that, and had literally to do with the number of
>>> molecules of each substance, such tht you had so many molecules of one
>>> per million molecules of the other.  Did I make that up?
>>> ****************************************************************************

>> Yes, it can be a bit more complicated.  You are thinking of the dreaded
>> "moles" !!  Since different molecules have different masses, measuring by
>> weight does not give you the same molecule to molecule ratio if the masses
>> are different.  Thus, chemists use moles.  One mole of a substance is
>> 6.02x10^23 molecules.  Thus, one mole of water will weigh different than one
>> mole of sugar.

>> Does this distinction make any difference on the scale for winemaking?
>> Well, the difference is probably well within your error for measuring
>> anyway, so using weight works.

> This is making things more complicated than it needs to be.  When we
> talk about ppm in winemaking, we mean by mass.  It's not molecules of
> one chemical per million molecules of another,so moles and so forth
> don't have anything to do with it.  Since a liter of something with a
> specific gravity of 1.000 (water or finished wine, close enough)
> weighs 1000 grams and there are 1000 milligrams (mg) in a gram and
> 1000 times a 1000 is a million, mg/l is the same thing as ppm.  It
> really is that simple.

Well, he did ask what other ways a chemist thinks about ppm, so I answered.
I still contend that every time you make wine, you have different amounts of
the components.  Chemical reactions are on a molecule to molecule basis, so
if you measure by mass to volume, the amount of sulfite (for example) to
other components will be different every time.  Of course these small
differences don't matter on the scale of winemaking.  But he did ask!  :-)

----Greg

http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/instruct/grcook/wine/

 
 
 

Parts per Million?

Post by Chopsl » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 11:40:27



Quote:
> On 4 Nov 2001 08:50:20 -0500 in rec.crafts.winemaking,

> [...]
> > P.S.  Are there other chemists out there who have a differnet measning
> > for ppm?

> The main point with ppm (and ppb, ppt etc.), I think, is that it has to
> be the same quantity in the denominator as in the nominator: mg/kg
> (mass/mass), or l/l (volume/volume), but never g/l (mass/volume), or
> ml/kg (volume/mass).

> I personally don't like the ppm unit, there are much better ways do
> describe a concentration of something. mg/l is a much better unit in
> everyday life.

Personally, I prefer the PPM unit.  As you said, mg/kg, l/l, g/l, and
ml/kg could also all be used.  PPM is simple and straight forward.  Some
joker is always coming up with something like mg/100g, or pg/g.  Then, I
have to bring out the calculator.  What a pain.
Quote:
> > I thought I remembered learning in chemistry that it was
> > more complicatd than that, and had literally to do with the number of
> > molecules of each substance, such tht you had so many molecules of one
> > per million molecules of the other.  Did I make that up?

> I don't think you did. When using ppm about gases then ppmv (ppm volume)
> is the same as ppm moles under ideal conditions (since pV=nRT). Since
> one mole is 6.022e23 molecules one ppm volume is equivalent to one ppm
> molecules.

> --
> /Kent Persson
> http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/svalbardifast/
> Jelena Dokic Play of the day
> http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/svalbardifast/jelena.jpg