First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by purduepho.. » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:03:04



I just finished crushing 432lbs of Cab Sauv from Mayers Cider Mill
(Cali).  I had been trying to obtain Cab Franc (heard someone was
selling at 900$/ton but only for 15 ton lots) so I settled.

I used the egg crate method (thanks whomever suggested it) and we got
to about 12 mins/ lug, or about 3lb/minute.  Destemming is a total
PITA... I ended up crushing (Stems and all) 1/2 the batch to do a
comparison.  The crusher is inadequate and I will have to build a new
one.  The wine press has to be totally rebuilt- I'm learning that a
winery operation is very expensive business!

5.4 g of KMS in approximately 24 gallons of juice to sanitize and then
tommorow morning a little dose of yeasties.  Pectic enzyme (whatever
was left over) to try and extract some more colour and flavour from the
skins.

My crusher is manually operated- I have a flywheel for it but didn't
have time to build the jig to hold it.  Next year, it WILL be running-
if I have to disassemble a bike frame to make it fit and run.  I'm
starting to understand that a small crusher/destemmer, at 800$, could
very well be worth the investment.

All in all a woderful experience-  I have a much better *not yet
complete* understanding of the steps.  My red juice was already turning
brown by the time I hit it with the sulfite, so I'm hoping not to be
too damaged.

Question(s): Does one filter (say, 30 micron for big chunks) juice
after pressing?  Can you run MLF on skins?  How do oak chips (Added at
crush) influence?

With that, I'll finish my Noveau Merlot and call it a night.  Where's
the ibuprofen...

Jason

 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by Joe Sallusti » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:40:25


Quote:
> Question(s): Does one filter (say, 30 micron for big chunks) juice
> after pressing?

Just let it settle and rack off.  Keep a nose on it for off smells if
you leave it for a week or so though.

Quote:
>Can you run MLF on skins?

Is it on the skins or pressed?  I rarely do MLF because i usually have
low acid must.  Others should speak to that better than I can.  That
said, you have a lot of sulfite in there right now for MLF. I might
wait until it was almost finished if i were you.

Quote:
>How do oak chips (Added at crush) influence?

I can't imagine a red without some sort of oak, some say it integrates
better added preferment.  I did it that way this year.  I did 4 ounces
per 6 gallons.
Quote:

> With that, I'll finish my Noveau Merlot and call it a night.  Where's
> the ibuprofen...

> Jason


 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by Ric » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:59:31


Regarding MLF - IMHO; I always MLF red wines 'just in case'. DOn;t want
spritzing wine when I open a bottle a couple years from now.

Add some mal bacteria soon after primary is vigorously underway. Better
chance of getting the MLF going before the *** gets high. MLF likely
won;t finish for some time. Long after the wine is still - test with paper
chromatography. Anyway, paper chrom is a fun test just for the hell of it!

Question y'all; do you often use pectic enzyme on red wines? I use PE on my
pear wine - bt have never done so on a grape wine. I usually focus on pH at
the start of fermentation as the best way to ensure good color and flavor
extraction. Joe - do you ever use PE on a red wine?

Quote:
>> Question(s): Does one filter (say, 30 micron for big chunks) juice
>> after pressing?

> Just let it settle and rack off.  Keep a nose on it for off smells if
> you leave it for a week or so though.

>>Can you run MLF on skins?

> Is it on the skins or pressed?  I rarely do MLF because i usually have
> low acid must.  Others should speak to that better than I can.  That
> said, you have a lot of sulfite in there right now for MLF. I might
> wait until it was almost finished if i were you.

>>How do oak chips (Added at crush) influence?

> I can't imagine a red without some sort of oak, some say it integrates
> better added preferment.  I did it that way this year.  I did 4 ounces
> per 6 gallons.

>> With that, I'll finish my Noveau Merlot and call it a night.  Where's
>> the ibuprofen...

>> Jason

 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by purduepho.. » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 03:18:31


Quote:

> > Question(s): Does one filter (say, 30 micron for big chunks) juice
> > after pressing?

> Just let it settle and rack off.  Keep a nose on it for off smells if
> you leave it for a week or so though.

> >Can you run MLF on skins?

> Is it on the skins or pressed?  I rarely do MLF because i usually have
> low acid must.  Others should speak to that better than I can.  That

It's still on the skins.  The berries are largely intact- crushed, but
still roundish in the tank.  I had intended to ferment them on the
skins for a week or so, then rack off and press, separating free run
and pressed juice for further processing.

I have heavy and medium+ toast stavin chips- going to integrate those
as soon as I can.  I had some powdered oak I was going to use to try
and lower my chances of vegetal aromas.

pH was 3.74 and sg was 1.104 .  I figure it rise a bit more as the
raisins soak up.  I haven't measured total acid yet (no time).  Yeast
will go in tonight if I can figure out how to keep them warm....

 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by bobdro » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 06:42:40


Hi guy! We crushed 30 lugs of Lodi cab sav 3 weeks ago. We can't afford a
destemmer but will cash in our deposit bottles next season to buy one. Any
hoo: we've never filtered off the crush or the press. we've always racked at
least once before any physical manipulation and have never experienced any
brown discoloration ( and we're amazing lax and lazy by anyones's work
standards.) 12 mins/lug may have been a little long, but that's wine over
the dam. We've always primaryed w/ stems. We've always pitched Malo on the
skins when the brix drops between 10 & 5 with what we've considered
favorable results Our results on the whole have been at least G-VG.  Our
council sez: skip the ibuprofen, get some grappa instead and don't fret too
much! HTH


Quote:
>I just finished crushing 432lbs of Cab Sauv from Mayers Cider Mill
> (Cali).  I had been trying to obtain Cab Franc (heard someone was
> selling at 900$/ton but only for 15 ton lots) so I settled.

> I used the egg crate method (thanks whomever suggested it) and we got
> to about 12 mins/ lug, or about 3lb/minute.  Destemming is a total
> PITA... I ended up crushing (Stems and all) 1/2 the batch to do a
> comparison.  The crusher is inadequate and I will have to build a new
> one.  The wine press has to be totally rebuilt- I'm learning that a
> winery operation is very expensive business!

> 5.4 g of KMS in approximately 24 gallons of juice to sanitize and then
> tommorow morning a little dose of yeasties.  Pectic enzyme (whatever
> was left over) to try and extract some more colour and flavour from the
> skins.

> My crusher is manually operated- I have a flywheel for it but didn't
> have time to build the jig to hold it.  Next year, it WILL be running-
> if I have to disassemble a bike frame to make it fit and run.  I'm
> starting to understand that a small crusher/destemmer, at 800$, could
> very well be worth the investment.

> All in all a woderful experience-  I have a much better *not yet
> complete* understanding of the steps.  My red juice was already turning
> brown by the time I hit it with the sulfite, so I'm hoping not to be
> too damaged.

> Question(s): Does one filter (say, 30 micron for big chunks) juice
> after pressing?  Can you run MLF on skins?  How do oak chips (Added at
> crush) influence?

> With that, I'll finish my Noveau Merlot and call it a night.  Where's
> the ibuprofen...

> Jason

 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by Joe Sallusti » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:46:56


Yep, I use pectic enzyme an all wines.  I use less on grapes than fruit
though, about 1/2 as much as a guess.  Each manufacturer has different
instructions as to how much to use.

Since I never did it any other way i have no idea if it helps or not
but I never have cloudy wines so...

Joe

Quote:

> Regarding MLF - IMHO; I always MLF red wines 'just in case'. DOn;t want
> spritzing wine when I open a bottle a couple years from now.

> Add some mal bacteria soon after primary is vigorously underway. Better
> chance of getting the MLF going before the *** gets high. MLF likely
> won;t finish for some time. Long after the wine is still - test with paper
> chromatography. Anyway, paper chrom is a fun test just for the hell of it!

> Question y'all; do you often use pectic enzyme on red wines? I use PE on my
> pear wine - bt have never done so on a grape wine. I usually focus on pH at
> the start of fermentation as the best way to ensure good color and flavor
> extraction. Joe - do you ever use PE on a red wine?

> >> Question(s): Does one filter (say, 30 micron for big chunks) juice
> >> after pressing?

> > Just let it settle and rack off.  Keep a nose on it for off smells if
> > you leave it for a week or so though.

> >>Can you run MLF on skins?

> > Is it on the skins or pressed?  I rarely do MLF because i usually have
> > low acid must.  Others should speak to that better than I can.  That
> > said, you have a lot of sulfite in there right now for MLF. I might
> > wait until it was almost finished if i were you.

> >>How do oak chips (Added at crush) influence?

> > I can't imagine a red without some sort of oak, some say it integrates
> > better added preferment.  I did it that way this year.  I did 4 ounces
> > per 6 gallons.

> >> With that, I'll finish my Noveau Merlot and call it a night.  Where's
> >> the ibuprofen...

> >> Jason

 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by Joe Sallusti » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:54:09


Quote:
> Our council sez: skip the ibuprofen, get some grappa instead and don't fret too
> much! HTH

Grappa... now that's a mans drink.   :)  The stuff i have has was
closer to moonshine than brandy.

Seriously, if you use that powdered oak go easy, a little goes a long
way.  I would use the beans over that, StaVin is not even close to the
same thing at imparting flavors, it's much better than oak dust as far
as i am concerned.

Joe

 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by bobdro » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:57:00


I agree with joe- we used stavin before we bought a barrel & always got
compliments on the product. plus the cubes are way easier to deal with all
around...

the beauty of grappa ( now there's a bold statement!) is that it is what it
is:  Firewater. wa-hoo!


Quote:
>> Our council sez: skip the ibuprofen, get some grappa instead and don't
>> fret too
>> much! HTH

> Grappa... now that's a mans drink.   :)  The stuff i have has was
> closer to moonshine than brandy.

> Seriously, if you use that powdered oak go easy, a little goes a long
> way.  I would use the beans over that, StaVin is not even close to the
> same thing at imparting flavors, it's much better than oak dust as far
> as i am concerned.

> Joe

 
 
 

First Crush: Cab Sauv and I am SO building/buying a destemmer next year

Post by purduepho.. » Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:06:11


Thanks Folks-

I believe I will purchase a small quantitiy of eVoak chips- they have a
free 'trial' kit and the aromas from their chips are just wonderful.
This way I can do double blinds again...

Is it unusual for the cap to be about 10 to 20 degrees warmer than the
wine it's soaking in?  When I punch it down (by hand and by pot) it's
reading about 88 F, but the liquid is down around 70 F.  I'm using a
small oil filled space heater in between the two trashcans (picture to
follow) to keep them warm.

Jason

Quote:

> I agree with joe- we used stavin before we bought a barrel & always got
> compliments on the product. plus the cubes are way easier to deal with all
> around...

> the beauty of grappa ( now there's a bold statement!) is that it is what it
> is:  Firewater. wa-hoo!



> >> Our council sez: skip the ibuprofen, get some grappa instead and don't
> >> fret too
> >> much! HTH

> > Grappa... now that's a mans drink.   :)  The stuff i have has was
> > closer to moonshine than brandy.

> > Seriously, if you use that powdered oak go easy, a little goes a long
> > way.  I would use the beans over that, StaVin is not even close to the
> > same thing at imparting flavors, it's much better than oak dust as far
> > as i am concerned.

> > Joe