Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Tom Erik Smeda » Thu, 31 May 2001 22:12:56



Some time ago there was an article about Rappy upgrades in Helicopter World.
The author noted that the cranked aluminium arms on the Wash-Out Assembly
upgrade PV0096 has wrong angle, resulting in incorrect phasing angle.
Is this correct? Are the all-metal swashplate a better upgrade?

/Tom Erik

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Antonius J.M. Groothuize » Thu, 31 May 2001 22:55:45


Forget about the metal swashplate upgrade.  It looks good but has a poor
bearing.  When mine wears out I'll go back to the stock one.

Tony Groothuizen.



Quote:
> Some time ago there was an article about Rappy upgrades in Helicopter
World.
> The author noted that the cranked aluminium arms on the Wash-Out Assembly
> upgrade PV0096 has wrong angle, resulting in incorrect phasing angle.
> Is this correct? Are the all-metal swashplate a better upgrade?

> /Tom Erik


 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by ed » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 03:32:18


Any body has explanation of that "phasing angle" problem?  Does it meens
that the 4 point of the swashplate do not line of with the other set of 4
when the flybar is in line with the heli frame?

If it is what we are talking about, How can they do such a mistake???  It
meens they never did fit it on a real raptor and try it!?!?!  it sound
impossible to me?

/fb



Quote:
> Forget about the metal swashplate upgrade.  It looks good but has a poor
> bearing.  When mine wears out I'll go back to the stock one.

> Tony Groothuizen.



> > Some time ago there was an article about Rappy upgrades in Helicopter
> World.
> > The author noted that the cranked aluminium arms on the Wash-Out
Assembly
> > upgrade PV0096 has wrong angle, resulting in incorrect phasing angle.
> > Is this correct? Are the all-metal swashplate a better upgrade?

> > /Tom Erik

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Dragon Slaye » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 06:17:08


I work on real helicopters, AH-64 D Longbow to be specific, 4 bladed head,
but this applies to all helicopters, the only phase angle  is when the
blades are shot with a laser from the pitch housing to the  tip at a target
attached to the blade cap, then the rod dampeners are adjusted till the
blade is "straight" with the pitch housing, which "phases" all 4 blades (or
whatever number of blades the heli has) when completed (not to be confused
with droop angle).  since the raptor as well as most (not all) r/c heli's
has a feathering spindle between their version of a pitch housing (blade
grip) instead of a strap pack, and NO rod dampeners to the grips for
adjustment it simply relies on centrifugal force to sling the blades out
straight, there is NO PHASING of the blades, only thing close to phasing on
a r/c heli I can even remotely think of would be the timing of the
swashplate, which with very small results changes the way cyclic input is
fed via swashplate to rotor head/fly bar.  which with intense changes to the
timing you will get cyclic coupling which inputs lateral deflection when you
make a longitudinal input and vise versa.
 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Boomstrik » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:36:44


You are correct except with model heli's it is typically called "Phasing"
instead of "Timing" but at any rate the result is the same. Some model
heli's are made so that you can adjust the phasing. The JR Ergos allow for
this adjustment. It is typically done by adjusting the pitch slider/mixing
lever relationship or what ever part holds the mixing levers on your heli to
offset the levers relationship with the swashplate and flybar. In the
example given by the original commenter,  if the mixing levers where
machined wrong so that they did not line up it could cause the heli to fly
at a slight angle left or right when the cyclic command was given for
straight forward flight.


Quote:
> I work on real helicopters, AH-64 D Longbow to be specific, 4 bladed head,
> but this applies to all helicopters, the only phase angle  is when the
> blades are shot with a laser from the pitch housing to the  tip at a
target
> attached to the blade cap, then the rod dampeners are adjusted till the
> blade is "straight" with the pitch housing, which "phases" all 4 blades
(or
> whatever number of blades the heli has) when completed (not to be confused
> with droop angle).  since the raptor as well as most (not all) r/c heli's
> has a feathering spindle between their version of a pitch housing (blade
> grip) instead of a strap pack, and NO rod dampeners to the grips for
> adjustment it simply relies on centrifugal force to sling the blades out
> straight, there is NO PHASING of the blades, only thing close to phasing
on
> a r/c heli I can even remotely think of would be the timing of the
> swashplate, which with very small results changes the way cyclic input is
> fed via swashplate to rotor head/fly bar.  which with intense changes to
the
> timing you will get cyclic coupling which inputs lateral deflection when
you
> make a longitudinal input and vise versa.

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Beavi » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 07:54:03




Quote:
>I work on real helicopters, AH-64 D Longbow to be specific, 4 bladed head,
>but this applies to all helicopters, the only phase angle  is when the
>blades are shot with a laser from the pitch housing to the  tip at a target
>attached to the blade cap, then the rod dampeners are adjusted till the
>blade is "straight" with the pitch housing, which "phases" all 4 blades (or
>whatever number of blades the heli has) when completed (not to be confused
>with droop angle).  since the raptor as well as most (not all) r/c heli's
>has a feathering spindle between their version of a pitch housing (blade
>grip) instead of a strap pack, and NO rod dampeners to the grips for
>adjustment it simply relies on centrifugal force to sling the blades out
>straight, there is NO PHASING of the blades, only thing close to phasing on
>a r/c heli I can even remotely think of would be the timing of the
>swashplate, which with very small results changes the way cyclic input is
>fed via swashplate to rotor head/fly bar.  which with intense changes to the
>timing you will get cyclic coupling which inputs lateral deflection when you
>make a longitudinal input and vise versa.

That's what they're talking about DS.

Beav

You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)

Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same address as
before..

www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Dragon Slaye » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 10:29:41


dip shit.......hummm may be so, but phasing and timing are two completely
different things, seams if your calling timing phasing your the ***ing
idiot here.
 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by prof » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 11:02:39


Before calling people "idiot" you might wish to check your own writing
skills. With your poor grammar and spelling you don't look any too
bright yourself.
Quote:

> dip shit.......hummm may be so, but phasing and timing are two completely
> different things, seams if your calling timing phasing your the ***ing
> idiot here.

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by John & Michell » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 12:09:04


Quote:

> dip shit.......hummm may be so, but phasing and timing are two completely
> different things, seams if your calling timing phasing your the ***ing
> idiot here.

Jeez that was a pretty long bow you drew Mr Dddddragon Ssssslayer....
Now lets see if I can go and find something to be insulted by when
someone calls me JM
JM
 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Rotor Tille » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:53:26


Lead/lag damper phasing and model swashplate phasing are two different
things.

rt



Quote:
> I work on real helicopters, AH-64 D Longbow to be specific, 4 bladed
head,
> but this applies to all helicopters, the only phase angle  is when the
> blades are shot with a laser from the pitch housing to the  tip at a
target
> attached to the blade cap, then the rod dampeners are adjusted till the
> blade is "straight" with the pitch housing, which "phases" all 4 blades
(or
> whatever number of blades the heli has) when completed (not to be
confused
> with droop angle).  since the raptor as well as most (not all) r/c heli's
> has a feathering spindle between their version of a pitch housing (blade
> grip) instead of a strap pack, and NO rod dampeners to the grips for
> adjustment it simply relies on centrifugal force to sling the blades out
> straight, there is NO PHASING of the blades, only thing close to phasing
on
> a r/c heli I can even remotely think of would be the timing of the
> swashplate, which with very small results changes the way cyclic input is
> fed via swashplate to rotor head/fly bar.  which with intense changes to
the
> timing you will get cyclic coupling which inputs lateral deflection when
you
> make a longitudinal input and vise versa.

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by ed » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:19:51


Well DS, don't take it like that ;(

I'm not a specialist and that's exactly why I asked the question...  If you
are completely unable to share your knowledge to us simple mortal without
treating us of idiot... then simply don't tell us what only you in the world
know...

Thanks for the first explanation though ;)

/fb



Quote:
> dip shit.......hummm may be so, but phasing and timing are two completely
> different things, seams if your calling timing phasing your the ***ing
> idiot here.

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by ed » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:25:00


Well... it gets back to my first question then... How in the world didn't
they noticed this!?!  I can't believed they made a machined part in XX copy
without trying it first!

well... I guess they did.. ;(

/fb



Quote:
> You are correct except with model heli's it is typically called "Phasing"
> instead of "Timing" but at any rate the result is the same. Some model
> heli's are made so that you can adjust the phasing. The JR Ergos allow for
> this adjustment. It is typically done by adjusting the pitch slider/mixing
> lever relationship or what ever part holds the mixing levers on your heli
to
> offset the levers relationship with the swashplate and flybar. In the
> example given by the original commenter,  if the mixing levers where
> machined wrong so that they did not line up it could cause the heli to fly
> at a slight angle left or right when the cyclic command was given for
> straight forward flight.



> > I work on real helicopters, AH-64 D Longbow to be specific, 4 bladed
head,
> > but this applies to all helicopters, the only phase angle  is when the
> > blades are shot with a laser from the pitch housing to the  tip at a
> target
> > attached to the blade cap, then the rod dampeners are adjusted till the
> > blade is "straight" with the pitch housing, which "phases" all 4 blades
> (or
> > whatever number of blades the heli has) when completed (not to be
confused
> > with droop angle).  since the raptor as well as most (not all) r/c
heli's
> > has a feathering spindle between their version of a pitch housing (blade
> > grip) instead of a strap pack, and NO rod dampeners to the grips for
> > adjustment it simply relies on centrifugal force to sling the blades out
> > straight, there is NO PHASING of the blades, only thing close to phasing
> on
> > a r/c heli I can even remotely think of would be the timing of the
> > swashplate, which with very small results changes the way cyclic input
is
> > fed via swashplate to rotor head/fly bar.  which with intense changes to
> the
> > timing you will get cyclic coupling which inputs lateral deflection when
> you
> > make a longitudinal input and vise versa.

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Rotor Tille » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:39:26


hello,

What I'd like to know is why it was never mentioned by the expert(s)
promoting said products in magazines etc as better than plastic flying
upgrades... many months ago.
The fact that Joe modeller has become the R&D guy is not fair. BTW it did
work in that anything will fly<g>
rt



Quote:
> Well... it gets back to my first question then... How in the world didn't
> they noticed this!?!  I can't believed they made a machined part in XX
copy
> without trying it first!

> well... I guess they did.. ;(

> /fb



> > You are correct except with model heli's it is typically called
"Phasing"
> > instead of "Timing" but at any rate the result is the same. Some model
> > heli's are made so that you can adjust the phasing. The JR Ergos allow
for
> > this adjustment. It is typically done by adjusting the pitch
slider/mixing
> > lever relationship or what ever part holds the mixing levers on your
heli
> to
> > offset the levers relationship with the swashplate and flybar. In the
> > example given by the original commenter,  if the mixing levers where
> > machined wrong so that they did not line up it could cause the heli to
fly
> > at a slight angle left or right when the cyclic command was given for
> > straight forward flight.



> > > I work on real helicopters, AH-64 D Longbow to be specific, 4 bladed
> head,
> > > but this applies to all helicopters, the only phase angle  is when
the
> > > blades are shot with a laser from the pitch housing to the  tip at a
> > target
> > > attached to the blade cap, then the rod dampeners are adjusted till
the
> > > blade is "straight" with the pitch housing, which "phases" all 4
blades
> > (or
> > > whatever number of blades the heli has) when completed (not to be
> confused
> > > with droop angle).  since the raptor as well as most (not all) r/c
> heli's
> > > has a feathering spindle between their version of a pitch housing
(blade
> > > grip) instead of a strap pack, and NO rod dampeners to the grips for
> > > adjustment it simply relies on centrifugal force to sling the blades
out
> > > straight, there is NO PHASING of the blades, only thing close to
phasing
> > on
> > > a r/c heli I can even remotely think of would be the timing of the
> > > swashplate, which with very small results changes the way cyclic
input
> is
> > > fed via swashplate to rotor head/fly bar.  which with intense changes
to
> > the
> > > timing you will get cyclic coupling which inputs lateral deflection
when
> > you
> > > make a longitudinal input and vise versa.

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Steve Simpso » Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:04:29


Quote:
> dip shit.......hummm may be so, but phasing and timing are two completely
> different things, seams if your calling timing phasing your the ***ing
> idiot here.

Hey! There are rules in this News Group . . . . . Mister Man!

You are supposed to formally request custody of the group 'Shit Stirring
Oar' before you start trouble.

Check with RT or Peter . . . . one of them usually has it . . .

Show some respect for tradition, willya?

 
 
 

Raptor PV0096 and wrong phase angle?

Post by Colin Dycke » Sat, 02 Jun 2001 05:57:02


Tom

1) Regarding swashplates, I highly recommend the Quick UK unit, with the
proviso that it needs a 4mm longer mast to retain full cyclic and
collective movement (see my website)

2) As no one has actually answered your question yet, can I ask it
again:-

Has anyone actually fitted the metal mixer upgrade and noticed any
'phasing error' (or whatever you want to call it :-) in real life on the
Raptor 30?

The reason I ask is that I've fitted this to my Raptor, and can't notice
any unwanted mixing of controls. I don't pretend to be an expert, so
possibly wouldn't notice the problem anyway, so can anyone say if
they've actually noticed any problems, or was the original statement in
the article just an example of someone trying to appear knowledgeable?

--
Colin

See my website at www.dyckes.com.
To reply by email, remove the x- from my email address



Quote:
> Some time ago there was an article about Rappy upgrades in Helicopter
World.
> The author noted that the cranked aluminium arms on the Wash-Out
Assembly
> upgrade PV0096 has wrong angle, resulting in incorrect phasing angle.
> Is this correct? Are the all-metal swashplate a better upgrade?

> /Tom Erik