Novice Heli Setup - help!

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Dean Upto » Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:13:31



Hi all,

I'm very new to model helis - and currently trying to set up and trim my
completed collective-pitch model. However, I'm having trouble with the set
up of the rotors.

I have the model strapped down to a black & decker workmate while I setup.
However when fire up the engine (.46H) and spin up the rotors, I notice the
rotors form TWO discs rather than one. I marked on of the blades with some
red tape so I could identify which blade was tracking higher. I then
adjusted the push rod from the swashplate to the bell/hiller mixer to
increase the pitch of the blade that was tracking down, and decrease the
pitch of the blade tracking up.

Unfortunately, even after several attempts at this, there's very little
difference, except for the following. Initially, the gap between the rotor
discs was about 4cm, through the entire range of throttle/collective. Now I
have adjusted the length of the rods, I notice that the gap is about 3.5cm,
but reduces down to approx. 1cm at high throttle/collective.

Note that the situation is totally unaffected by the cyclic control. The
cyclic works brilliantly, adjusting the plane of the rotors, but still two
discs are clearly visible rather than one.

I also tried adding a slight pitch to the flybar paddles in an effort to add
a little more correction, but this caused the two discs to blur towards the
front of the model (i.e. they were flapping).

I'm at a loss! What do I adjust to make the rotors form one disc?

Many thanks in anticipation for your time and help,

Dean.

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Patrik Lange » Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:16:48


Hi Dean,
If it doesnt help adjusting the links, check that the main blades is
straight.
4 cm is way to much..... somethin must be wrong mounted? or as I said not
straight blades..... With that much out of tracking it will not be easy to
fly either.

What heli is it?

/P



Quote:
> Hi all,

> I'm very new to model helis - and currently trying to set up and trim my
> completed collective-pitch model. However, I'm having trouble with the set
> up of the rotors.

> I have the model strapped down to a black & decker workmate while I setup.
> However when fire up the engine (.46H) and spin up the rotors, I notice
the
> rotors form TWO discs rather than one. I marked on of the blades with some
> red tape so I could identify which blade was tracking higher. I then
> adjusted the push rod from the swashplate to the bell/hiller mixer to
> increase the pitch of the blade that was tracking down, and decrease the
> pitch of the blade tracking up.

> Unfortunately, even after several attempts at this, there's very little
> difference, except for the following. Initially, the gap between the rotor
> discs was about 4cm, through the entire range of throttle/collective. Now
I
> have adjusted the length of the rods, I notice that the gap is about
3.5cm,
> but reduces down to approx. 1cm at high throttle/collective.

> Note that the situation is totally unaffected by the cyclic control. The
> cyclic works brilliantly, adjusting the plane of the rotors, but still two
> discs are clearly visible rather than one.

> I also tried adding a slight pitch to the flybar paddles in an effort to
add
> a little more correction, but this caused the two discs to blur towards
the
> front of the model (i.e. they were flapping).

> I'm at a loss! What do I adjust to make the rotors form one disc?

> Many thanks in anticipation for your time and help,

> Dean.


 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by ed » Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:16:06


Is it better to change both link length or only 1?

ie: increase the pitch of the blade that is tracking down, and decrease the
pitch of the blade tracking up or simply increse the pitch of the blade
tracking down until it reach the other one?

/fb.



Quote:
> Hi Dean,
> If it doesnt help adjusting the links, check that the main blades is
> straight.
> 4 cm is way to much..... somethin must be wrong mounted? or as I said not
> straight blades..... With that much out of tracking it will not be easy to
> fly either.

> What heli is it?

> /P



> > Hi all,

> > I'm very new to model helis - and currently trying to set up and trim my
> > completed collective-pitch model. However, I'm having trouble with the
set
> > up of the rotors.

> > I have the model strapped down to a black & decker workmate while I
setup.
> > However when fire up the engine (.46H) and spin up the rotors, I notice
> the
> > rotors form TWO discs rather than one. I marked on of the blades with
some
> > red tape so I could identify which blade was tracking higher. I then
> > adjusted the push rod from the swashplate to the bell/hiller mixer to
> > increase the pitch of the blade that was tracking down, and decrease the
> > pitch of the blade tracking up.

> > Unfortunately, even after several attempts at this, there's very little
> > difference, except for the following. Initially, the gap between the
rotor
> > discs was about 4cm, through the entire range of throttle/collective.
Now
> I
> > have adjusted the length of the rods, I notice that the gap is about
> 3.5cm,
> > but reduces down to approx. 1cm at high throttle/collective.

> > Note that the situation is totally unaffected by the cyclic control. The
> > cyclic works brilliantly, adjusting the plane of the rotors, but still
two
> > discs are clearly visible rather than one.

> > I also tried adding a slight pitch to the flybar paddles in an effort to
> add
> > a little more correction, but this caused the two discs to blur towards
> the
> > front of the model (i.e. they were flapping).

> > I'm at a loss! What do I adjust to make the rotors form one disc?

> > Many thanks in anticipation for your time and help,

> > Dean.

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Shawn Lammer » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 00:51:06


You should NEVER strap down a helicopter and spool up the engine. The heli
goes through a resonance at certain head speed. If the heli is firmly tied
down this resonance can shake it so ***ly that you can cause structural
damage.

Shawn


Quote:
> Hi all,

> I'm very new to model helis - and currently trying to set up and trim my
> completed collective-pitch model. However, I'm having trouble with the set
> up of the rotors.

> I have the model strapped down to a black & decker workmate while I setup.
> However when fire up the engine (.46H) and spin up the rotors, I notice
the
> rotors form TWO discs rather than one. I marked on of the blades with some
> red tape so I could identify which blade was tracking higher. I then
> adjusted the push rod from the swashplate to the bell/hiller mixer to
> increase the pitch of the blade that was tracking down, and decrease the
> pitch of the blade tracking up.

> Unfortunately, even after several attempts at this, there's very little
> difference, except for the following. Initially, the gap between the rotor
> discs was about 4cm, through the entire range of throttle/collective. Now
I
> have adjusted the length of the rods, I notice that the gap is about
3.5cm,
> but reduces down to approx. 1cm at high throttle/collective.

> Note that the situation is totally unaffected by the cyclic control. The
> cyclic works brilliantly, adjusting the plane of the rotors, but still two
> discs are clearly visible rather than one.

> I also tried adding a slight pitch to the flybar paddles in an effort to
add
> a little more correction, but this caused the two discs to blur towards
the
> front of the model (i.e. they were flapping).

> I'm at a loss! What do I adjust to make the rotors form one disc?

> Many thanks in anticipation for your time and help,

> Dean.

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Dean Upto » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:51:04


Thanks for the advice, Shawn.

I read the tip about running up on the workmate on the web somwhere, and

figured it was the ideal way to set up the rotors without risk of it taking

off. Is it okay if it's tethered with elastic?

Any ideas on the two-disks problem?

Thanks again,

Dean.


Quote:
> You should NEVER strap down a helicopter and spool up the engine. The heli
> goes through a resonance at certain head speed. If the heli is firmly tied
> down this resonance can shake it so ***ly that you can cause
structural
> damage.

> Shawn



> > Hi all,

> > I'm very new to model helis - and currently trying to set up and trim my
> > completed collective-pitch model. However, I'm having trouble with the
set
> > up of the rotors.

> > I have the model strapped down to a black & decker workmate while I
setup.
> > However when fire up the engine (.46H) and spin up the rotors, I notice
> the
> > rotors form TWO discs rather than one. I marked on of the blades with
some
> > red tape so I could identify which blade was tracking higher. I then
> > adjusted the push rod from the swashplate to the bell/hiller mixer to
> > increase the pitch of the blade that was tracking down, and decrease the
> > pitch of the blade tracking up.

> > Unfortunately, even after several attempts at this, there's very little
> > difference, except for the following. Initially, the gap between the
rotor
> > discs was about 4cm, through the entire range of throttle/collective.
Now
> I
> > have adjusted the length of the rods, I notice that the gap is about
> 3.5cm,
> > but reduces down to approx. 1cm at high throttle/collective.

> > Note that the situation is totally unaffected by the cyclic control. The
> > cyclic works brilliantly, adjusting the plane of the rotors, but still
two
> > discs are clearly visible rather than one.

> > I also tried adding a slight pitch to the flybar paddles in an effort to
> add
> > a little more correction, but this caused the two discs to blur towards
> the
> > front of the model (i.e. they were flapping).

> > I'm at a loss! What do I adjust to make the rotors form one disc?

> > Many thanks in anticipation for your time and help,

> > Dean.

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Dean Upto » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:54:46


I'll check whether the blades are straight - thanks!

Any ideas what else it could be assuming the blades are straight?

The Heli is an MFA Sport 500 Mk.II - it wouldn't be my first choice, but the
kit price was right (free!).


Quote:
> Hi Dean,
> If it doesnt help adjusting the links, check that the main blades is
> straight.
> 4 cm is way to much..... somethin must be wrong mounted? or as I said not
> straight blades..... With that much out of tracking it will not be easy to
> fly either.

> What heli is it?

> /P



> > Hi all,

> > I'm very new to model helis - and currently trying to set up and trim my
> > completed collective-pitch model. However, I'm having trouble with the
set
> > up of the rotors.

> > I have the model strapped down to a black & decker workmate while I
setup.
> > However when fire up the engine (.46H) and spin up the rotors, I notice
> the
> > rotors form TWO discs rather than one. I marked on of the blades with
some
> > red tape so I could identify which blade was tracking higher. I then
> > adjusted the push rod from the swashplate to the bell/hiller mixer to
> > increase the pitch of the blade that was tracking down, and decrease the
> > pitch of the blade tracking up.

> > Unfortunately, even after several attempts at this, there's very little
> > difference, except for the following. Initially, the gap between the
rotor
> > discs was about 4cm, through the entire range of throttle/collective.
Now
> I
> > have adjusted the length of the rods, I notice that the gap is about
> 3.5cm,
> > but reduces down to approx. 1cm at high throttle/collective.

> > Note that the situation is totally unaffected by the cyclic control. The
> > cyclic works brilliantly, adjusting the plane of the rotors, but still
two
> > discs are clearly visible rather than one.

> > I also tried adding a slight pitch to the flybar paddles in an effort to
> add
> > a little more correction, but this caused the two discs to blur towards
> the
> > front of the model (i.e. they were flapping).

> > I'm at a loss! What do I adjust to make the rotors form one disc?

> > Many thanks in anticipation for your time and help,

> > Dean.

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by John & Michell » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:09:39


Quote:

> Thanks for the advice, Shawn.

> I read the tip about running up on the workmate on the web somwhere, and

> figured it was the ideal way to set up the rotors without risk of it taking

> off. Is it okay if it's tethered with elastic?

> Any ideas on the two-disks problem?

> Thanks again,

> Dean.

I've run my helis up on a workmate (the Black&Decker variety), using a
couple of occy straps pulled really tight over the skids to hold the
heli down- there's a bit of give but not much there, you want to make
sure it's not going to slip out, and a heavy toolbox to stabilise the
workmate.  The advantage of the workmate is that the heli is operating
pretty well out of ground effect, so the resonance problem is minimised.

I've run the Rappy up to full power, with head speeds up to about 1900
RPM while I was frigging 'round, with no sign of any resonances, you
need to be very gentle with the cyclic tho, and as with any rotating
machinery, keep well away from the disc and watch it very carefully for
anything untoward.

JM

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Beavi » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:03:40




Quote:
>I'll check whether the blades are straight - thanks!

>Any ideas what else it could be assuming the blades are straight?

>The Heli is an MFA Sport 500 Mk.II - it wouldn't be my first choice, but the
>kit price was right (free!).

Dean, sometimes even free is too ***y expensive, and this (IMHO) is
one of those times. If you're using the standard MFA blades, don't
expect to get the tracking as it should be. They're far too "tail heavy"
and as such fly where the hell they want to. Don't fit heavy (glass or
carbon) blades as they're likely to lock the head solid in flight.

If you ARE going to use this heli, be prepared for a lot of aggravation
and little flying, and that's if you only use it as a door stop (a job
for which it STILL wasn't particularly well designed, although it just
about manages it).

***advice I know, but I'm giving it for free so take it as you want,
but if you're REALLY interested in flying RC heli's, bin the 500 thing
and get a heli before the interest is twisted gruesomely from your head
by this beast:-)

Beav

You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)

Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same address as
before..

www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Beavi » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:11:38




Quote:
>Thanks for the advice, Shawn.

>I read the tip about running up on the workmate on the web somwhere, and

>figured it was the ideal way to set up the rotors without risk of it taking

>off.

It IS the ideal way Dean.

Quote:
>Is it okay if it's tethered with elastic?

Absolutely NOT. If it's elastic it can stretch and allow the heli to
move. When those blades are screaming round, unwanted movement is the
last thing you need.

Quote:

>Any ideas on the two-disks problem?

It's an MFA?

Keep working on the pitch links. Raise one, lower the other if the rotor
revs seem "ok" to you (I know you don't know what Ok REALLY is, but...)
but if you're not sure, just raise the low blade by adding pitch. This
will slow things down rather than speed them up where other problems may
appear (may???, It's an MFA, so it's WILL)

If you STILL can't get it to track well, change the blades for some more
"modern" ones with some lead weight in the leading edge. The original
MFA blades were weight free and total crap. (In keeping with the rest of
the machine)

Beav

You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)

Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same address as
before..

www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Beavi » Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:06:35




Quote:
>You should NEVER strap down a helicopter and spool up the engine.

Oh ***!! Now how am I going to tell all the guys whose heli's get
strapped to "The Stand" round at my pals place? Just about every heli
imaginable has been strapped, started and revved til they beg for mercy
on that thing, and so far not a single problem.

Quote:
> The heli
>goes through a resonance at certain head speed.

Not if things are balanced properly they don't.

Quote:
>If the heli is firmly tied
>down this resonance can shake it so ***ly that you can cause structural
>damage.

I'll bear that in mind.

Beav

You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)

Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same address as
before..

www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Colin Dycke » Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:13:39


Couldn't agree more!

I actually started my model flying with an MFA 500 some 12 years ago,
and got as far as some 10-20 second hops. The thing shook itself to
pieces over a period of about a month, and I gave up on it. Been flying
planks ever since, until last year, when i successfully got onto the
dark side (well started anyway). Looking back, I don't think even an
expert could set up and fly one of those things properly, let alone a
beginner (I certainly didn't know about the rearward blade CG).

MFA 500, just say NO!  (then get a Raptor:-)

--
Colin

See my website at www.dyckes.com.
To reply by email, remove the x- from my email address


Quote:


> >I'll check whether the blades are straight - thanks!

> >Any ideas what else it could be assuming the blades are straight?

> >The Heli is an MFA Sport 500 Mk.II - it wouldn't be my first choice,
but the
> >kit price was right (free!).

> Dean, sometimes even free is too ***y expensive, and this (IMHO) is
> one of those times. If you're using the standard MFA blades, don't
> expect to get the tracking as it should be. They're far too "tail
heavy"
> and as such fly where the hell they want to. Don't fit heavy (glass or
> carbon) blades as they're likely to lock the head solid in flight.

> If you ARE going to use this heli, be prepared for a lot of
aggravation
> and little flying, and that's if you only use it as a door stop (a job
> for which it STILL wasn't particularly well designed, although it just
> about manages it).

> ***advice I know, but I'm giving it for free so take it as you want,
> but if you're REALLY interested in flying RC heli's, bin the 500 thing
> and get a heli before the interest is twisted gruesomely from your
head
> by this beast:-)

> Beav

> You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot
co dot uk)

> Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same
address as
> before..

> www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Phil Noe » Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:47:18


Beavis,

Are you saying this is a case of FREE FRUSTRATION <G>....had a girlfriend like
that...her initials were MFA <G>.

Phil

Quote:



> >I'll check whether the blades are straight - thanks!

> >Any ideas what else it could be assuming the blades are straight?

> >The Heli is an MFA Sport 500 Mk.II - it wouldn't be my first choice, but the
> >kit price was right (free!).

> Dean, sometimes even free is too ***y expensive, and this (IMHO) is
> one of those times. If you're using the standard MFA blades, don't
> expect to get the tracking as it should be. They're far too "tail heavy"
> and as such fly where the hell they want to. Don't fit heavy (glass or
> carbon) blades as they're likely to lock the head solid in flight.

> If you ARE going to use this heli, be prepared for a lot of aggravation
> and little flying, and that's if you only use it as a door stop (a job
> for which it STILL wasn't particularly well designed, although it just
> about manages it).

> ***advice I know, but I'm giving it for free so take it as you want,
> but if you're REALLY interested in flying RC heli's, bin the 500 thing
> and get a heli before the interest is twisted gruesomely from your head
> by this beast:-)

> Beav

> You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)

> Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same address as
> before..

> www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Beavi » Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:16:41



dyckes.com> writes

Quote:
>Couldn't agree more!

>I actually started my model flying with an MFA 500 some 12 years ago,
>and got as far as some 10-20 second hops. The thing shook itself to
>pieces over a period of about a month, and I gave up on it. Been flying
>planks ever since, until last year, when i successfully got onto the
>dark side (well started anyway). Looking back, I don't think even an
>expert could set up and fly one of those things properly, let alone a
>beginner (I certainly didn't know about the rearward blade CG).

I've flown a few 500's Col and they're not HARD to set up and fly, but
they rarely STAY set up or flyable. This is true for both the collective
and the fixed pitch versions. They're too heavy for the blade size and
the transmission is far to pissy to withstand a decent engine.

A guy once turned up to our field with one and asked me if I'd give it a
check and test flight. I grabbed it by a skid and turned it upside down
to see if the throttle link was going to fully close the throttle
(that's me assuming I'd get the donkey to run) and the rotor head fell
off! I gave it back to the guy with a few instructions on building.

5 minutes later and it was cart-wheeling across the field spraying parts
all over the place. We never saw him or it again :-)

Quote:

>MFA 500, just say NO!  (then get a Raptor:-)

And even run the Raptor on Cool Power  :-)

Beav

You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)

Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same address as
before..

www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Beavi » Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:18:43



writes

Quote:
>Beavis,

>Are you saying this is a case of FREE FRUSTRATION <G>....

It's ***y EXPENSIVE Phil. It costs a LOT of money to buy the fags
needed to stay in control when you get involved with a Sporty :-)

Quote:
>had a girlfriend like
>that...her initials were MFA <G>.

You got rid of her though? :)

Beav

You can E-Mail me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)

Or you can visit my website (Which has undergone recent surgery) Same address as
before..

www.nachos.demon.co.uk

 
 
 

Novice Heli Setup - help!

Post by Colin Dycke » Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:00:19


Quote:
> >MFA 500, just say NO!  (then get a Raptor:-)

> And even run the Raptor on Cool Power  :-)

And make sure it's CP15. Perfect :-)

--
Colin

See my website at www.dyckes.com.
To reply by email, remove the x- from my email address