JR or TSK

JR or TSK

Post by Gary Ledbette » Sun, 29 Aug 1999 04:00:00



Howdy,
        Need to know which would be a better choice JR Vigor heli or
        the TSK Mystar V2, and if the JR comes with a metal rotor
        head.I have looked at the JR Superio heli but don't know if I
        can justify the extra $600.00 cost since I'm just starting 3D
        style flying.
                                Thanks in Advance,
                                      Gary
 
 
 

JR or TSK

Post by Dave Feltne » Sun, 29 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Gary,

TSK machines are top notch as far as parts and bearings go. Great long term
durability, all metal. They are a pain in the ass to build and work on, I
know because I have one. However I don't think they are the best 3D machines
if that is your ultimate goal. TSK are more know for their rock solid
stability and smooth control. But some guys are setting theirs up and flying
3D with them. Marco Cantoni's website has alot of info on this I believe. If
someone doesn't chime in here with the URL, I'll inquire about it on the TSK
list. Don't know anything about the Vigor, sorry.

-Dave

There are some pictures of TSKs on my site if you care to take a look.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/6328/
blah blah blah, the usual remove NOSPAM applies here.

Quote:

>Howdy,
> Need to know which would be a better choice JR Vigor heli or
> the TSK Mystar V2, and if the JR comes with a metal rotor
> head.I have looked at the JR Superio heli but don't know if I
> can justify the extra $600.00 cost since I'm just starting 3D
> style flying.
> Thanks in Advance,
>       Gary


 
 
 

JR or TSK

Post by Gary Ledbette » Sun, 29 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> Gary,

> TSK machines are top notch as far as parts and bearings go. Great long term
> durability, all metal. They are a pain in the ass to build and work on, I
> know because I have one. However I don't think they are the best 3D machines
> if that is your ultimate goal. TSK are more know for their rock solid
> stability and smooth control. But some guys are setting theirs up and flying
> 3D with them. Marco Cantoni's website has alot of info on this I believe. If
> someone doesn't chime in here with the URL, I'll inquire about it on the TSK
> list. Don't know anything about the Vigor, sorry.

> -Dave

> There are some pictures of TSKs on my site if you care to take a look.

> http://www.FoundCollection.com/
> blah blah blah, the usual remove NOSPAM applies here.


> >Howdy,
> > Need to know which would be a better choice JR Vigor heli or
> > the TSK Mystar V2, and if the JR comes with a metal rotor
> > head.I have looked at the JR Superio heli but don't know if I
> > can justify the extra $600.00 cost since I'm just starting 3D
> > style flying.
> > Thanks in Advance,
> >       Gary

Dave,

        I appreciate the advice I have a TSK 46 5star DL which is
a smooth precise machine but I think heavy and maybe under powered for
3D thats why I'm looking at the 60 size carbon fiber shaft drive TSK.
The Vigor has just been released by Horizon Hobby it was developed by
Curtis Young*** and JR, they advertise it 3D ready no upgrades needed.
I was hoping somebody other than Curtis had flown and or built one.
Both mechanics are around $800.00 minus the blades.I want a hotdog 3D
machine to keep up with my JR CCPM .21 size drag racing machine I always
smoke(well almost always) the 60 size helis with it and if I show up
with out a bird that does not fly like it's on steroids my buddies won't
let me live it down.

                                Good Day,
                                   Gary
Here is the URL for a look see at the Vigor.

http://www.FoundCollection.com/

 
 
 

JR or TSK

Post by Dave Feltne » Sun, 29 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> I appreciate the advice I have a TSK 46 5star DL which is
>a smooth precise machine but I think heavy and maybe under powered for
>3D thats why I'm looking at the 60 size carbon fiber shaft drive TSK.
>The Vigor has just been released by Horizon Hobby it was developed by
>Curtis Young*** and JR, they advertise it 3D ready no upgrades needed.
>I was hoping somebody other than Curtis had flown and or built one.
>Both mechanics are around $800.00 minus the blades.I want a hotdog 3D
>machine to keep up with my JR CCPM .21 size drag racing machine I always
>smoke(well almost always) the 60 size helis with it and if I show up
>with out a bird that does not fly like it's on steroids my buddies won't
>let me live it down.

> Good Day,
>    Gary
>Here is the URL for a look see at the Vigor.

>http://www.FoundCollection.com/

e=prod3&cat=JRH01&prod=JRP9050

Thanks for the URL, I'll check it out. I've heard reports about the Vigor
from both sides of the fence so far. Some are disappointed, others are
e***d. Don't discount the Xcell machines also, can't argue with the number
of 3D pilots flying those. I'll get back with Marco's site with the TSK 3D
setup info. Regards,

-Dave

http://www.FoundCollection.com/
Federal restrictions require substantial penalty for early withdrawal,
member FDIC.

 
 
 

JR or TSK

Post by Dave Feltne » Sun, 29 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Gary,

Here is Marco's site for TSK. You might be able to get an idea of the 3D
capability for the Mystar 60 here. Good luck.

http://www.modellflug.ch/heli/tsk/tsk.htm

 
 
 

JR or TSK

Post by ho.. » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> > Gary,

> > TSK machines are top notch as far as parts and bearings go.
> > Great long term durability, all metal.

This is one of the best arguments for selecting a 3D capable machine.
Durable. They normally get more abuse than a sport or FAI machine.

Quote:
> >They are a pain in the ass to build and work on, I
> >know because I have one.

What are you comparing it to? I enjoy working on the TSK's because they
don't require custom fitting. They go together great right out of the
box. I thought the JR Ergo (and I would hope the Vigor) scored very high
in this regard, too. I understand this may be a very subjective measure.

Quote:
> >However I don't think they are the best 3D machines
> > if that is your ultimate goal.

I believe the MyStar line is a great kit for 3D. It was designed around
the older FAI style flying, but the quality is so high to begin with
that they seem to hold up quite well through 3D style flying. I'd be
curious what about the Vigor (or XCell, Mille, etc.) make them more 3D
capable? (honest question, not a call for flames)

In addition to Marco's changes that make the control system symetrical,
I have had great luck with adding a longer flybar (520mm, up from
500mm--$12 change), and the new MA 3D paddles ($8.50). I have been
flying this for a few months now with great success. It really livened
up the cyclics while keeping good stability.

I just had a chance to help set up a friend's Millenium, and FWIW I
thought it felt very similar in the air to my TSK's set up as described.
I say this because the Mille is dubbed as a 3D machine out of the box.
The TSK takes about $20 worth of changes to match that feel. We won't
even get into the price thing here...(now that's a call for flames :-)
)

< snip some other stuff>

Quote:

> Dave,

>    I appreciate the advice I have a TSK 46 5star DL which is
> a smooth precise machine but I think heavy and maybe under powered for
> 3D thats why I'm looking at the 60 size carbon fiber shaft drive TSK.
> The Vigor has just been released by Horizon Hobby it was developed by
> Curtis Young*** and JR, they advertise it 3D ready no upgrades
> needed.
> I was hoping somebody other than Curtis had flown and or built one.
> Both mechanics are around $800.00 minus the blades.

Just a point here. You are comparing a metal framed belt drive kit
(Vigor) to a carbon framed shaft drive kit (TSK). I won't get into the
discussion about whether metal is better than carbon, but the point is
that they are different spec machines.

I would also encourage you to compare parts prices. This is one of the
most important factors in a 3D machine. Contrary to popular belief, the
TSK's are very reasonably priced for parts.

Quote:
>I want a hotdog 3D
> machine to keep up with my JR CCPM .21 size drag racing machine I
always
> smoke(well almost always) the 60 size helis with it and if I show up
> with out a bird that does not fly like it's on steroids my buddies
won't
> let me live it down.

I think you'd actually be fine with either. But, I suppose you can tell
which way I would go :-)

-Chris

Quote:

>                            Good Day,
>                               Gary

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JR or TSK

Post by Dave Feltne » Wed, 01 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Chris,

Quote:

>What are you comparing it to? I enjoy working on the TSK's >because they
>don't require custom fitting. They go together great right out of the
>box. I thought the JR Ergo (and I would hope the Vigor) scored very >high
>in this regard, too. I understand this may be a very subjective >measure.

I've helped build Ergos. I also had a Century Falcon which was quite simple
to build. Kyosho's are fairly easy to build even though I don't particularly
care for them. The JRs you can basically shake the box and pull out a ready
to fly helicopter (okay, not quite that easy). My MS 46 anyway has some
parts and screws which are totally inaccessible unless you pull major
components and assemblies of the machine which IMO is frustrating. There are
other examples. My frames were also hell to get aligned. I'm certain I had
some***holes in some of my frame pieces which were not aligned
correctly. Now I know that these frames are punched on a die so it's
unlikely that this could happen but I took a dozen measurements with a
digital caliper and the numbers don't lie. I still got it together, just a
pain to get it to align so and I had to enlarge a number of frame holes to
get it to stay aligned and did require custom fitting which didn't seem
right from a kit of this caliber. Perhaps this was just unique to my kit.

Finally the instructions suck bilge water, sorry to be so blunt :). The
pictures are fine but this is a complex machine which has some finer points
of assembly not mentioned in the manual and which can't be conveyed by
pictures alone. However the guys on the TSK list were very helpful to me in
this regard. Had it not been for them, the assembly would've been intensely
frustrating. I'm hopeful TSK will work to improve this in the future.

Quote:
>I would also encourage you to compare parts prices. This is one of >the

most important factors in a 3D machine. Contrary to popular >belief, the

Quote:
>TSK's are very reasonably priced for parts.

For some parts anyway. Have you a priced a replacement factory canopy
lately? $170 USD. That's outrageous and it's often a part which needs
replacing after a crash. Don't get me wrong on this one. Most of the parts
prices seem okay. The kit prices are excellent. I consider $500 USD for the
MS 46 to be a steal for what you're getting even though it doesn't come with
blades. You'd have to spend a whole lot more than that to bring many of the
other popular 46 machines in to the same class as the Mystar.

As far as my comments about them not being the best 3D machines that's just
based upon what I've heard other TSK pilots say who own other more popular
3D machines like Xcells. The comments have said it's basically because of
the control system is built more around stability and smoothness but Marco's
mods seem to address that quite nicely. Other than that they tend to be a
bit on the heavy side. That's not to say that it can't be done. If you read
in my post I mentioned to Gary that many guys are now flying TSK 3D with
Marco's setup mods.

Anyway it seems you probably got the wrong impression that I had more bad to
say than good. This is not the case. The proof is in the flying and the
Mystars are fabulous fliers. I love mine :-). But I'm the type (engineer)
that has been trained to look for the bad as well as the good and always try
to make improvements. Regards,

-Dave

 
 
 

JR or TSK

Post by David Feltne » Thu, 02 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

>I tend to agree with
>everything you've said. However, I did want to get across the point that
>with very inexpensive setup changes (the head changes I mentioned I have
>been using in addition to Marco's mods) the MyStar line can be as
>aggressive or stable as just about any 3D heli out there.

>-Chris

 Hey Chris,

That's good to know because one of these days I'm going to learn how to do
some real 3D flying. (the occasional sloppy flip flop doesn't count in my
book :-)). BTW, have you seen pictures of the new 46 canopy. Man it's slick
looking!! (just too damned expensive)

-Dave

 
 
 

JR or TSK

Post by ho.. » Fri, 03 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Hi Dave,

Yep. I can't argue with anything you've said. That new canopy is highway
robbery. Hopefully it will go down soon. But as you pointed out, most
parts (not all) are very reasonably priced.

I tend to agree with
everything you've said. However, I did want to get across the point that
with very inexpensive setup changes (the head changes I mentioned I have
been using in addition to Marco's mods) the MyStar line can be as
aggressive or stable as just about any 3D heli out there.

-Chris



Quote:
> Chris,

<-- snip a bunch of accurate stuff -->

Quote:
> Anyway it seems you probably got the wrong impression that I had more
bad to
> say than good. This is not the case. The proof is in the flying and
the
> Mystars are fabulous fliers. I love mine :-). But I'm the type
(engineer)
> that has been trained to look for the bad as well as the good and
always try
> to make improvements. Regards,

> -Dave

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JR or TSK

Post by ho.. » Fri, 03 Sep 1999 04:00:00




Quote:
>  Hey Chris,

> That's good to know because one of these days I'm going to learn how
to do
> some real 3D flying. (the occasional sloppy flip flop doesn't count in
my
> book :-)). BTW, have you seen pictures of the new 46 canopy. Man it's
slick
> looking!! (just too damned expensive)

> -Dave

Hi Dave,

Yes I have seen the new 46 canopy. In fact, a guy I fly with has a new
MS60 V2 NB (new body) with the EMS conversion. It makes for a very nice
combo. I really like the new canopies. I even like the decals it comes
with. I thought the old stickers were pretty ugly. I was ready to buy
one of the new bodies for both of my 60's until I saw the price. It's
probably cheaper to buy the new kit for the body and have the spares :-)

-Chris

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